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In article <Pine.OSF.3.93.960619193133.25890A-100000@sailfish.jcu.edu.au>, Leigh Gillespie <sci-ltg@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
>        It appears that the ARL have finally had to face the reality
>that without the SL aligned players and countries they have no real
>international football. We live in interesting times...

That's only until SL loose their appeal and as rumour suggested earlier in the
year elements from within the Warriors will re-align the club to the ARL and
put pressure on the NZRL to drop SL.



Richard

Leigh Gillespie <sci-ltg@jcu.edu.au> wrote:


<snipped>

>	It appears that the ARL have finally had to face the reality
>that without the SL aligned players and countries they have no real
>international football. We live in interesting times...

However, if SL lose the appeal, who's to say that pressure from their
investors won't cause News Limited to abandon the SL *vision*. After
all, why throw good money in after bad??

Cheers,
	Adam

Leigh Gillespie writes:

> The Australian side as announced by Arko yesterday is/was...
>
>     9 - A Johns

Why the hell are they picking Andrew at hooker when he has a cracked
shoulder blade and can't play again this year? Is this an indication
that the ARL knew that the match wasn't going to take place, or am
I missing something?

> 	It appears that the ARL have finally had to face the reality
> that without the SL aligned players and countries they have no real
> international football. We live in interesting times...

The ARL promised their players international football, and so they have
to try and provide it. If they don't try the players might be able to
get out of their contracts; if they try and fail then that's another
matter. I don't expect we'll see any international football involving
Australia for the next couple of years, until News decides to cut their
losses.

Jim
--
James J Smith             | One of the biggest obstacles to the future
Faculty of Engineering    | of computing is C. C is the last attempt
Newcastle University      | of the high priesthood to control the
engjs@cc.newcastle.edu.au | computing business. It's like the scribes
--------------------------+ and the Pharisees who did not want the
masses to learn to read and write.                  -- Jerry Pournelle

Richard Fiveash writes:

> That's only until SL loose their appeal and as rumour suggested earlier in the
> year elements from within the Warriors will re-align the club to the ARL and
> put pressure on the NZRL to drop SL.

The only way that the NZRL will dump SL is if they dump Graham Carden or
if SL dumps them. Too many words have been exchanged.

Jim
--
James J Smith             | One of the biggest obstacles to the future
Faculty of Engineering    | of computing is C. C is the last attempt
Newcastle University      | of the high priesthood to control the
engjs@cc.newcastle.edu.au | computing business. It's like the scribes
--------------------------+ and the Pharisees who did not want the
masses to learn to read and write.                  -- Jerry Pournelle

engjs@cc.newcastle.edu.au (James Smith) wrote:

>Leigh Gillespie writes:

>> The Australian side as announced by Arko yesterday is/was...
>>
>>     9 - A Johns

>Why the hell are they picking Andrew at hooker when he has a cracked
>shoulder blade and can't play again this year? Is this an indication
>that the ARL knew that the match wasn't going to take place, or am
>I missing something?

Is this true?? Is Johns really out for the season?? I heard he'd only
be out for five weeks?

Anyway, the ARL new that Johns would be out during the Test period but
selected him as hooker because he was, for mine, the best player in
the series. If the tests were to go ahead, Johns would be replaced by
Walters, however, it would at least look like Walters was the second
string player (which he certainly was in this year's series). If
Walters was selected at hooker, it would appear, to the layman, that
Walters was selected ahead of Johns, and this would make the selection
committee look very inept.

Cheers,
	Adam

James Smith (engjs@cc.newcastle.edu.au) wrote:
: Leigh Gillespie writes:
:
: > The Australian side as announced by Arko yesterday is/was...
: >
: >     9 - A Johns
:
: Why the hell are they picking Andrew at hooker when he has a cracked
: shoulder blade and can't play again this year? Is this an indication
: that the ARL knew that the match wasn't going to take place, or am
: I missing something?
:

I heard from someone it wasn't as bad as they originally thought and he
could be playing this weekend. True?

Trev.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trevor Speering	-- at the University of Newcastle, Australia
c9423873@alinga.newcastle.edu.au

		Seriousness is refuge for the shallow.

In article <1996Jun20.121754.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au>, engjs@cc.newcastle.edu.au (James Smith) wrote:
>Why the hell are they picking Andrew at hooker when he has a cracked
>shoulder blade and can't play again this year? Is this an indication
>that the ARL knew that the match wasn't going to take place, or am
>I missing something?

Not as bad as first thought and he is probably playing this weekend.






Richard

In article <1996Jun20.121127.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au>, engjs@cc.newcastle.edu.au (James Smith) wrote:
>> year elements from within the Warriors will re-align the club to the ARL and
>> put pressure on the NZRL to drop SL.
>
>The only way that the NZRL will dump SL is if they dump Graham Carden or
>if SL dumps them. Too many words have been exchanged.

Obvious extension Carden would have to go.




Richard

>Leigh Gillespie wrote:
>
>         It appears that the ARL have finally had to face the reality
> that without the SL aligned players and countries they have no real
> international football. We live in interesting times...

How long will it be before England, NZ etc. realise that without
Australia - world champions, who have dominated the game for over 2
decades - "international" rugby league is pointless?

Jacob

Trevor Speering (c9423873@alinga.newcastle.edu.au) wrote:
: James Smith (engjs@cc.newcastle.edu.au) wrote:
: : Leigh Gillespie writes:
: :
: : > The Australian side as announced by Arko yesterday is/was...
: : >
: : >     9 - A Johns
: :
: : Why the hell are they picking Andrew at hooker when he has a cracked
: : shoulder blade and can't play again this year? Is this an indication
: : that the ARL knew that the match wasn't going to take place, or am
: : I missing something?
: :
:
: I heard from someone it wasn't as bad as they originally thought and he
: could be playing this weekend. True?

Completely true. He didn't break his shoulder, he only bruised it, and
he should be right for Saturday against the Saints.
: Trev.
: --
: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Trevor Speering	-- at the University of Newcastle, Australia




--
- David "DM" Treay (the tribe that hides from Man)
         oudbt@alinga.newcastle.edu.au

In a loose interpretation of the original Sanskrit Jacob Slattery wrote:
:>>Leigh Gillespie wrote:
:>>
:>>         It appears that the ARL have finally had to face the reality
:>> that without the SL aligned players and countries they have no real
:>> international football. We live in interesting times...
:>
:>How long will it be before England, NZ etc. realise that without
:>Australia - world champions, who have dominated the game for over 2
:>decades - "international" rugby league is pointless?

About the same time the ARL realises that international football with
"Australia versus some English guys we met in a pub and popped a 20 to"
is pointless.
Australia may have the best internationals in the world, but that doesnt
give us the right to go acting like league cant exist without us. it can
and it will.


:>
:>Jacob

--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Michael Paxton +61 6 2533047    |What you cant do with a number 14 chicken,
pickle@blitzen.canberra.edu.au  |two stuffed hamsters and caterers jar of
u913184@student.canberra.edu.au |vegemite is probably not worth doing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^http://blitzen.canberra.edu.au/~pickle^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jacob Slattery <pslattery@wts.com.au> wrote:
>>Leigh Gillespie wrote:
>>
>>         It appears that the ARL have finally had to face the reality
>> that without the SL aligned players and countries they have no real
>> international football. We live in interesting times...
>
>How long will it be before England, NZ etc. realise that >without Australia - world champions, who have dominated the >game for over 2 decades - "international" rugby league is >pointless?

That's right. If England and New Zealand are the only countries
who can hold decent test matches, sales will drop, interest
will wale etc...


Tim Archer
...............................................
who@hunterlink.net.au
http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/index.html
http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddpa/tlog.html
...............................................

In article <4qb9an$67f@csc.canberra.edu.au>, pickle@blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Michael Paxton) wrote:
>About the same time the ARL realises that international football with
>"Australia versus some English guys we met in a pub and popped a 20 to"
>is pointless.

When did that happen? The ARL called off the games against the All Golds cause
they can't field a competitive side, but at least that's better than playing
no-one, if the major countries don't won't to play us.


>Australia may have the best internationals in the world, but that doesnt
>give us the right to go acting like league cant exist without us. it can
>and it will.

What would be the point of a World Cup without Australia how could the winners
claim to be world champians? While League will continue without Australia
playing international games, it would still also continue in Australia but any
international competition without Australia would be pointless in the end.



Richard

Michael Paxton writes:

> Australia may have the best internationals in the world, but that doesnt
> give us the right to go acting like league cant exist without us. it can
> and it will.

I think the point really is that the only two real teams at the moment are
Great Britain and Australia. New Zealand is a step below, and the others
are really minnows, even France. Take Australia out of the equation and
Great Britain become to league what the United States are to gridiron.

Australia and Great Britain need to play each other, or league will
deteriorate. Eventually both sides will realise that and get things
sorted out. These sorts of things have happened before, and they're
surely going to happen again.

Jim
--
James J Smith             | One of the biggest obstacles to the future
Faculty of Engineering    | of computing is C. C is the last attempt
Newcastle University      | of the high priesthood to control the
engjs@cc.newcastle.edu.au | computing business. It's like the scribes
--------------------------+ and the Pharisees who did not want the
masses to learn to read and write.                  -- Jerry Pournelle

In article <4q93ro$qcb@sleeper.apana.org.au>,
   adam@sleeper.apana.org.au (Adam Doughman) wrote:
>Leigh Gillespie <sci-ltg@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
>
>
><snipped>
>
>>	It appears that the ARL have finally had to face the reality
>>that without the SL aligned players and countries they have no real
>>international football. We live in interesting times...
>
>However, if SL lose the appeal, who's to say that pressure from their
>investors won't cause News Limited to abandon the SL *vision*. After
>all, why throw good money in after bad??

Of course News Ltd will drop Rupertleague if they lose the appeal and try to
minimise their losses-after all it ahs already  had the desired effect and
ruined the game.  This was never about providing quality Rigby League, it is
more about destroying the competition to Rugby Union which Rupert also owns.
WHen are these Superleague players going to realise that by boycotting games
and not just getting on with it, they are driving away the fans so even if
they win the appeal, tyhe fans will already be somewehere else watching AFL or
Union or basketball or soccer or netball or......

This whole thing amuses and disgusts me at the same time-the players who are
refusing to play for Australia this year are the same ones who took the ARL to
court for NOT picking them last year. WHat do they want???  I find it hard to
believe the decision not to participate was universaly agreed on by players
spread over two states so quickly without someone in NEws Limited doing the
organising.  If so, I hope the Supreme COurt is told who so that contempt
charges can be laid at the earliest opportunity.

Nobody wins out of this, but the game loses

Peter Butler

adam@sleeper.apana.org.au (Adam Doughman) writes:

<snip>

-> selected him as hooker because he was, for mine, the best player in
-> the series. If the tests were to go ahead, Johns would be replaced by
-> Walters, however, it would at least look like Walters was the second
-> string player (which he certainly was in this year's series). If
-> Walters was selected at hooker, it would appear, to the layman, that
-> Walters was selected ahead of Johns, and this would make the selection
-> committee look very inept.

Well, Johns played halfback in Origin anyway.... so it's kinda hard to compare.

Darren.

>Of course News Ltd will drop Rupertleague if they lose the appeal and try to
>minimise their losses-after all it ahs already  had the desired effect and
>ruined the game.  This was never about providing quality Rigby League, it is
>more about destroying the competition to Rugby Union which Rupert also owns.

exactly...even if the court case goes against the SL tne dalit
terrorgraph will continue to bag the arl and rl in general in a effort to
increase its (news corp) returns on the invetsment in RU
as for campo saying that rl will die if it is not a true international
sport...well david have you not heard of the game AFL (no i dont like it
myself but it does attract many supporters and it is DEFINETLY  not
international)

>This whole thing amuses and disgusts me at the same time-the players who are
>refusing to play for Australia this year are the same ones who took the ARL to
>court for NOT picking them last year. WHat do they want???  I find it hard to
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
i beleive that THEY are the super league organisation ...if you asked the
indivdual players i believe that they are dying to play for aust but are
being pressured by sl not to play



>Nobody wins out of this, but the game loses

yep
john

adam@sleeper.apana.org.au (Adam Doughman) wrote:

>Leigh Gillespie <sci-ltg@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
>
>
><snipped>
>
>>	It appears that the ARL have finally had to face the reality
>>that without the SL aligned players and countries they have no real
>>international football. We live in interesting times...
>
>However, if SL lose the appeal, who's to say that pressure from their
>investors won't cause News Limited to abandon the SL *vision*. After
>all, why throw good money in after bad??
>
>Cheers,
>	Adam
>
	The big question is that after the dust settles and whoever wins
(SL or ARL will there be anything worth owning!
                     Catch-Ya-Later!
_____________________________________________________
Does Anyone still remember the Saints
It's a shame that this years State Of Origin series
wasn't a6 game series Blues 3  Qld still running??
Who does own Rugby league this week anyway?
_____________________________________________________

oudbt@alinga.newcastle.edu.au (TREAY D B) wrote:

>Trevor Speering (c9423873@alinga.newcastle.edu.au) wrote:
>: James Smith (engjs@cc.newcastle.edu.au) wrote:
>: : Leigh Gillespie writes:
>: :
>: : > The Australian side as announced by Arko yesterday is/was...
>: : >
>: : >     9 - A Johns
>: :
>: : Why the hell are they picking Andrew at hooker when he has a cracked
>: : shoulder blade and can't play again this year? Is this an indication
>: : that the ARL knew that the match wasn't going to take place, or am
>: : I missing something?
>: :
>:
>: I heard from someone it wasn't as bad as they originally thought and he
>: could be playing this weekend. True?
>
>Completely true. He didn't break his shoulder, he only bruised it, and
>he should be right for Saturday against the Saints.
>: Trev.
Yep he was right to play 5 gols and a field goal. No A johns -11 points
12-12 If only?
                     Catch-Ya-Later!
_____________________________________________________
Does Anyone still remember the Saints
It's a shame that this years State Of Origin series
wasn't a6 game series Blues 3  Qld still running??
Who does own Rugby league this week anyway?
_____________________________________________________

On 21 Jun 1996, Peter Butler wrote:

> This whole thing amuses and disgusts me at the same time-the players who are
> refusing to play for Australia this year are the same ones who took the ARL
> to court for NOT picking them last year. WHat do they want???

	Looking at this in isolation (ie. forgetting alleged finanical
inducements not to play) I suppose the players thought "Well we took them
to court to get a fair go in selection room, won the case and still were
not selected so why should we do anything for them now? They obviously
don't need us so stuff `em." or words to that effect. Seems pretty logical
to me. This is all a pay back for still not selecting them (for the World
Cup) even after winning the court case. All's fair in love and war.


Catchya round, Leigh

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Leigh T. Gillespie	              *    "It takes leather balls	*
* Phone - Australia (077) 791219      *     to play Rugby!"		*
* E-mail - leigh.gillespie@jcu.edu.au *	    - Leisure Suit Larry	*
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

In article <Pine.OSF.3.93.960623201803.8819B-100000@sailfish.jcu.edu.au>, Leigh Gillespie <sci-ltg@jcu.edu.au> wrote:

>        Looking at this in isolation (ie. forgetting alleged finanical
>inducements not to play) I suppose the players thought "Well we took them
>to court to get a fair go in selection room, won the case and still were
>not selected so why should we do anything for them now? They obviously
>don't need us so stuff `em." or words to that effect. Seems pretty logical
>to me. This is all a pay back for still not selecting them (for the World
>Cup) even after winning the court case. All's fair in love and war.

I don't think you can look at it in isolation, but it's not much of a pay back
by hurting yourself. The ARL still have the best team in the world without the
SL players so how is not playing paying back the ARL as you said they don't
need them. So it's a pretty ridiculus arguement. They didn't play because SL
didn't want them to and by playing they'd be risking their contract money
especially if SL lose the appeal.

This whole situation lays right at SL managements feet, the ARL should be able
to get a few more $100000 damages out of it and when it's all over I think the
SL management will owe the player a very big public apology.




Richard

Leigh Gillespie writes:

> 	Looking at this in isolation (ie. forgetting alleged finanical
> inducements not to play)

Suggesting that the players pulled out for any reason other than to protect
their superleague contracts is like saying that the ARL didn't choose
superleague players last year for any other reason than that they were
superleague players--it's naive.

> I suppose the players thought "Well we took them
> to court to get a fair go in selection room, won the case and still were
> not selected so why should we do anything for them now? They obviously
> don't need us so stuff `em." or words to that effect. Seems pretty logical
> to me. This is all a pay back for still not selecting them (for the World
> Cup) even after winning the court case. All's fair in love and war.

Then why have they jumped at the chance to play SOO? Surely when picked for
that they would also have said stuff 'em.

Jim
--
James J Smith             | One of the biggest obstacles to the future
Faculty of Engineering    | of computing is C. C is the last attempt
Newcastle University      | of the high priesthood to control the
engjs@cc.newcastle.edu.au | computing business. It's like the scribes
--------------------------+ and the Pharisees who did not want the
masses to learn to read and write.                  -- Jerry Pournelle

Leigh Gillespie <sci-ltg@jcu.edu.au> wrote:

>On 21 Jun 1996, Peter Butler wrote:

>> This whole thing amuses and disgusts me at the same time-the players who are
>> refusing to play for Australia this year are the same ones who took the ARL
>> to court for NOT picking them last year. WHat do they want???

>	Looking at this in isolation (ie. forgetting alleged finanical
>inducements not to play) I suppose the players thought "Well we took them
>to court to get a fair go in selection room, won the case and still were
>not selected so why should we do anything for them now? They obviously
>don't need us so stuff `em." or words to that effect. Seems pretty logical
>to me. This is all a pay back for still not selecting them (for the World
>Cup) even after winning the court case. All's fair in love and war.


>Catchya round, Leigh

Gidday all,

Leigh, just you playing devil's advocate again is it????

Again, I don't believe what you have said, and don't think that you do
either (or many others for that matter)

Lazzo, next to the Chief,  is the best prop in the game.  Daley is the
best 5/8 in the game.  Renouf, although in a form slump at present,
still deserves the title of Prince of Centers.  Do you really think
that these players will have undersold themselves by saying "..they
(the ARL) don't need us...".  Why would a player "punish" an
organisation by giving up the most prized possession of their rugby
league playing career - a green and gold jersey ??  Not to mention the
fact that the Fittler led team of ARL players has already proven that
they are still the best in the world without these other players (who
should be there), which, to an extent, undervalues their (SL players)
brilliance in the game.

I can see the arguments on both sides and both sides do have valid
points to be considered.  All I can see is the great game that we all
love is going to the dogs faster than we all can say "Rupert, piss
off".

No. I don't blame the players for the current argument.  They all
proved the want to be there with mostly outstanding performances in
the SOO (eg Lazzo and Daley played their hearts out all series).

To SL and ARL - compromise NOW or we have no game left soon.

Cheers
Shaun
--

Shaun G EVANS             < e-mail: sgevans@taunet.net.au>
                          <      phone: 015 745050    >
DARWIN, NT                <      fax: (089) 227188    >

Go the mighty Rabbitohs

"All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy"