🚀 go-pugleaf

Gordon McMillan wrote:
>
> On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:35:25 -0700, Dean Schulze
> <schulze@lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:
>
> >orfali wrote:
> >
> >> The memory of OpenDoc is still very fresh (may it *not* rest in peace).
> >> I for one learned the hard way never to underestimate Microsoft.  Right
> >> now ActiveXs with DCOM and Viper are starting to look very attractive.
> >> We must work on a credible alternative.  These battles of the ORBs (RMI
> >> vs CORBA) are ridiculous.
> >
> >    The risks that you warn of are very important, but I don't think
> >that the current situation with ORBs is analogous to the challenges
> >that OpenDoc faced.
> >
>
> Bob's version of the story is given strong credence by a recent
> Infoworld story:
> http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?970416.wforrest.htm
>
> excerpt:
>
> "The Object Management Group's object software nirvana CORBA is being
> overthrown by lower-level desktop component software, such as Java and
> ActiveX, according to a report released Wednesday by Forrester
> Research. "
>
> - Gordon

Gordon, I would take the Forrester Research report with a grain of salt.  According
to JavaSoft's Shel Finkelstein, CORBA is the ORB for Enterprise Beans-- the market
which De Palma is analyzing.  In addition, these JavaBeans will use the CORBA
Object Transaction Service (OTS).  So it's not CORBA vs. JavaBeans.  It's more like
JavaBeans/CORBA vs ActiveX/DCOM.  RMI is creating an element of confusion, which
only helps Microsoft. However, as far as I know not a single production-strength
RMI application has shipped yet (correct me if I'm wrong).  Yes, I saw the RMI
marketing page.

On the other hand, thousands of CORBA applications have shipped (BEA/ObjectBroker
and Iona account for many 1000s of apps). In addition, De Palma completely ignores
the embedded ORB market.  For example, CORBA is being embedded in Internet products
from Netscape, Oracle, Lotus/IBM, Sybase, etc.  This thing about "democratic
objects" vs "elitist" objects is bunk.  What's so elitist about having to write two
lines of JavaScript to invoke a CORBA function?  Yes, check the beta of Netscape's
Visual JavaScript.  Borland will soon have the same capability. Symantec, Sybase,
and Visual Age for Java will follow.  All these tools will be CORBA-enabled.  You
won't have to read our book to whip out a CORBA application (sigh!).

CORBA is becoming the lingua franca of the Object Web because of Netscape.  It's as
democratic as it gets.  I agree that nine months ago CORBA's prospects were much
dimmer. However, Netscape and Oracle have changed all this.  Now everyone is
climbing on the CORBA bandwagon.  ORBs are being embedded everywhere.  We even hope
through these posts to make JavaSoft 100% CORBA pure.  Now it's 50% CORBA and 50%
RMI.

So what are my dire warnings all about?  It's about Microsoft.  They have an
impressive set of products and they understand components, ORBs, and tools.  Now,
they're even moving ActiveX to the server in a big way.  Microsoft is very
single-minded in its strategy--one ORB and one component model from the client to
the server.  Also, great tools.  So when JavaSoft introduces two ORBs--for whatever
reasons that only they can explain--it causes a breach in the CORBA/JavaBean camp.
We now have a weaker story. We fight among each other (witness these posts and the
Friday RMI session at JavaOne).  Developers are confused.  The message is not clear
any more.  We start to fragment into JavaSoft vs Netscape camps.  It's the old Unix
wars once again.  Microsoft wins.  IMO, JavaSoft must be held accountable for the
mess it's creating.  I don't want to see another OpenDoc fiasco.  If I see
indications that this Object Web coalition isn't coming together, I'll move on to
ActiveX.  Life is too short for more Unix wars.  BTW, Microsoft understands
ubiquity.  I don't know if JavaSoft does.  Remember, these are the people that were
going to give us four ORBs in the JDK last September--RMI, NEO, Joe, and Doors.
One from each Sun division.  We can't afford to make political compromises when
we're competing against Microsoft.  In the past, they clobbered us so bad that it
still hurts--OS/2, Taligent, OpenDoc, Unix desktops, Mac, IDAPI, VIM, and the list
goes on.  We're in great shape to win with Java, CORBA, and the Web.  But everytime
we get close to winning, we seem to have the urge to shoot ourselves in the foot.
This RMI ORB is as irrational as it gets.  This is the Unix syndrome at
work, "live and let live and then die."

Bob Orfali
Bob Orfali