🚀 go-pugleaf

On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-05-30 10:11 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon.
> >
> > Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
> >
> Indeed he was.
>
> "In 1961, McClelland & Stewart published Cohen's 2nd collection, The
> Spice-Box of Earth (1961), which received rave reviews and sold out its
> 1st printing. The book made him a public figure in Canada.[12] The book
> also helped Cohen gain critical recognition as an important new voice in
> Canadian poetry. Cohen biographer Ira Nadel stated that "reaction to the
> finished book was enthusiastic and admiring.... The critic Robert Weaver
> found it powerful and declared that Cohen was 'probably the best young
> poet in English Canada right now.'"[13]
>
> > HTH and HAND.
>
> He's probably better known as a singer/songwriter, but anyone who's
> learned anything about Cohen knows that he was a poet first.

G.D. you sure set Voodoo Boy straight this time... kudos...!

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>>
>> As the article you quoted shows.

> No one is disputing that he was a poet before he became a folk singer

Good, then we have no argument, Pendragon.

:)

On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 4:59:17 PM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-05-31 2:59 p.m., Karen Tellefsen wrote: 
> > On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 11:35:12 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: 
> >> George J. Dance wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> Today's poem on Penny's Poetry blog: 
> >>> 'Tis May Now in New England, by Bliss Carman 
> >> 
> >>> Back to the golden marshes 
> >>> Comes summer at full tide 
> >>> [...] 
> >>> https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2022/05/tis-may-now-in-new-england-bliss-carman.html 
> >> Perhaps we'll known in Canada, Bliss Carman is definitely somewhat obscure here in the U.S. 
> >> 
> >> The most famous Canadian poet here would have to be Leonard Cohen. 
> >> 
> >> 🙂 
> > 
> > I'd say Robert Service, though I've nothing against Leonard Cohen.
> Hi, Karen; I can't tell you how refreshing it is to see you still 
> reading the group. Service is a good candidate, and I can think of 
> anecdotal evidence to support him -- from all my years on the group, I 
> only remember one person (a poet from Australia) who didn't know of "The 
> Cremation of Sam McGee". 
> 
> By coincidence, I was thinking of Service and Cohen last night. Service 
> is known for those 2 poems in /Songs of a Sourdough/ -- but while 
> /Songs/ brought him world fame, it didn't give him the income to live 
> comfortably on just his writing. He solved that by writing a novel, 'The 
> Trail of '98/ -- a trashy melodrama, IMO, but a big bestseller that 
> cemented his reputation and audience. 
> 
> Cohen first tried the same path: after the success of /Spice Box/, he 
> tried the same gambit by writing a novel, /The Favourite Game/, a sort 
> of loose biography. But it sold poorly, as did its follow-up, /Beautiful 
> Losers/. That's when Cohen decided he needed to try something else, and 
> it was only then (in late '65 or early '66) that he settled on being a 
> singer/songwriter.

Agreed and seconded.

Zod wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-05-30 10:11 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>> > Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon.
>> >
>> > Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>> >
>> Indeed he was.
>>
>> "In 1961, McClelland & Stewart published Cohen's 2nd collection, The
>> Spice-Box of Earth (1961), which received rave reviews and sold out its
>> 1st printing. The book made him a public figure in Canada.[12] The book
>> also helped Cohen gain critical recognition as an important new voice in
>> Canadian poetry. Cohen biographer Ira Nadel stated that "reaction to the
>> finished book was enthusiastic and admiring.... The critic Robert Weaver
>> found it powerful and declared that Cohen was 'probably the best young
>> poet in English Canada right now.'"[13]
>>
>> > HTH and HAND.
>>
>> He's probably better known as a singer/songwriter, but anyone who's
>> learned anything about Cohen knows that he was a poet first.

> G.D. you sure set Voodoo Boy straight this time... kudos...!

As he tries hard to backtrack.

:)

jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:25:18 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:11:55 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> > Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon.
>> >
>> > Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>> >
>> We've been over this before, Donkey.
>>
>> "His first published book of poetry, Let Us Compare Mythologies (1956), was published by Dudek as the first book in the McGill Poetry Series the year after Cohen's graduation. The book contained poems written largely when Cohen was between the ages of 15 and 20, and Cohen dedicated the book to his late father.[11] The well-known Canadian literary critic Northrop Frye wrote a review of the book in which he gave Cohen 'restrained praise'.[11]...In 1966 Cohen also published Parasites of Heaven, a book of poems. Both Beautiful Losers and Parasites of Heaven received mixed reviews and sold few copies.[11]...And yet, despite his 'disappointing' career, and before ever publishing a song, Cohen was the subject of a 44-minute-long short documentary from the National Film Board called Ladies and Gentlemen... Mr. Leonard Cohen...It was not until 1984 that Cohen published his next book of poems, Book of Mercy, which won him the Canadian Authors Association Literary Award for Poetry."
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Cohen#Poetry_and_novels
>>
>> Try to remember it, so I don't have to explain things to you a third time..
>    "His poetry books "Spice box of Earth" and "Flowers for Hitler" were also published before his music career started...

Hi there J.C....

You are quite correct....!

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 3:30:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 11:55:28 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> > > George J. Dance wrote:
>
>> >> > > > Today's poem on Penny's Poetry blog:
>> >> > > > 'Tis May Now in New England, by Bliss Carman
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Back to the golden marshes
>> >> > > > Comes summer at full tide
>> >> > > > [...]
>> >> > > > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2022/05/tis-may-now-in-new-england-bliss-carman.html
>> >> > > Perhaps we'll known in Canada, Bliss Carman is definitely somewhat obscure here in the U.S.
>> >> > Wrong, Donkey. He's somewhat obscure in Shitholeville, Georgia.
>> >> >
>> >> > To those of us with a 5th grade education, or higher, he's extremely well known.
>> >> > > The most famous Canadian poet here would have to be Leonard Cohen.
>> >> > Cohen was a folk singer, you jackass.
>> >> As George Dance corrected you, Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a singer and songwriter, you shit slinging little monkey.
>> >>
>>
>> > But he wasn't *successful* as a poet until 1984
>> Not true, Leonard Cohen had critical success with his poetry from the very start, years before he began his song-writing era.
>>
>> Look it up.

> I've looked it up

And quietly admit you were wrong?

:)

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 12:59:56 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > > > > > George J. Dance wrote:
>> > > > > >> On 2022-05-30 10:11 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> > > > > >>> Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon.
>> > > > > >>>
>> > > > > >>> Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>> > > > > >>>
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >> Indeed he was.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >> "In 1961, McClelland & Stewart published Cohen's 2nd collection, The
>> > > > > >> Spice-Box of Earth (1961), which received rave reviews and sold out its
>> > > > > >> 1st printing. The book made him a public figure in Canada.[12] The book
>> > > > > >> also helped Cohen gain critical recognition as an important new voice in
>> > > > > >> Canadian poetry. Cohen biographer Ira Nadel stated that "reaction to the
>> > > > > >> finished book was enthusiastic and admiring.... The critic Robert Weaver
>> > > > > >> found it powerful and declared that Cohen was 'probably the best young
>> > > > > >> poet in English Canada right now.'"[13]
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >>> HTH and HAND.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >> He's probably better known as a singer/songwriter, but anyone who's
>> > > > > >> learned anything about Cohen knows that he was a poet first.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Now try and get that across to the stupid V.D. Boy, the ignorant poetry bigot... ha ha.
>> > > > > Pendragon finally seems to have stopped playing stupid and has accepted that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before becoming a singer-songwriter.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > What I said was that he was a successful folksinger/songwriter who parlayed his singing fame into a career as a "poet."
>> > > You have it backwards, then.
>> > >
>> > > Leonard Cohen was a poet long before he was a singer.
>
> *yawn*


Agreed, we've covered the Leonard Cohen as poet and folk singer, well enough, Pendragon.

HTH and HAND.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 12:59:56 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 12:53:16 AM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 12:51:01 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 12:25:22 AM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 11:30:15 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > Zod wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > George J. Dance wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >> On 2022-05-30 10:11 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >>> Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon.
>> > > > > >>>
>> > > > > >>> Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>> > > > > >>>
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >> Indeed he was.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >> "In 1961, McClelland & Stewart published Cohen's 2nd collection, The
>> > > > > >> Spice-Box of Earth (1961), which received rave reviews and sold out its
>> > > > > >> 1st printing. The book made him a public figure in Canada.[12] The book
>> > > > > >> also helped Cohen gain critical recognition as an important new voice in
>> > > > > >> Canadian poetry. Cohen biographer Ira Nadel stated that "reaction to the
>> > > > > >> finished book was enthusiastic and admiring.... The critic Robert Weaver
>> > > > > >> found it powerful and declared that Cohen was 'probably the best young
>> > > > > >> poet in English Canada right now.'"[13]
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >>> HTH and HAND.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >> He's probably better known as a singer/songwriter, but anyone who's
>> > > > > >> learned anything about Cohen knows that he was a poet first.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Now try and get that across to the stupid V.D. Boy, the ignorant poetry bigot... ha ha.
>> > > > > Pendragon finally seems to have stopped playing stupid and has accepted that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before becoming a singer-songwriter.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > What I said was that he was a successful folksinger/songwriter who parlayed his singing fame into a career as a "poet."
>> > > You have it backwards, then.
>> > >
>> > > Leonard Cohen was a poet long before he was a singer.
>> > >
>> > > HTH and HAND.
>> > Potato.
>> You don't have to admit I'm right, Pendragon.
>>
>> Just stop playing stupid.

> *yawn*


Agreed, your ignorance of modern poetry is boring.

On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-05-30 10:11 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon.
> >
> > Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
> >
> Indeed he was.
>
> "In 1961, McClelland & Stewart published Cohen's 2nd collection, The
> Spice-Box of Earth (1961), which received rave reviews and sold out its
> 1st printing. The book made him a public figure in Canada.[12] The book
> also helped Cohen gain critical recognition as an important new voice in
> Canadian poetry. Cohen biographer Ira Nadel stated that "reaction to the
> finished book was enthusiastic and admiring.... The critic Robert Weaver
> found it powerful and declared that Cohen was 'probably the best young
> poet in English Canada right now.'"[13]
>
> > HTH and HAND.
>
> He's probably better known as a singer/songwriter, but anyone who's
> learned anything about Cohen knows that he was a poet first.

Quite rightly....

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 2:35:24 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> Will Dockery wrote: 
> > 
> > So we agree, then, that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer. 
> 
> > 🙂
> Yep....

Die Stink, die.
Stop stinking up the place
Cover your ugly face
With sod so foul that only brambles dare
Take root atop its filth.  Your grizzled hair
Long home to ticks and fleas
Shall be the straw where graveworms make their bed;
The earth repels you like some rank disease
The sun shines brighter knowing that you're dead
And songbird choirs echo "Die Stink, die."

Will Dockery wrote:
>
> So we agree, then, that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.

> 🙂

Yep....

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 2:35:24 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>> >
>> > So we agree, then, that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>>
>> > 🙂
>> Yep....

> Diexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Not from your bogus magic, Voodoo Boy, you dumb mother fucker.... ha ha.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 10:25:54 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Stop lying, Pendragon.
>>
>> You tried to say Leonard Cohen was a a folk singer, not a poet.
>>
>> You were corrected.
>>
>> HTH and HAND.

> Let's scroll up and see:

> WILL DOCKERY: Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.

> MMP: We've been over this before, Donkey.

> "His first published book of poetry, Let Us Compare Mythologies (1956), was published by Dudek as the first book in the McGill Poetry Series the year after Cohen's graduation. The book contained poems written largely when Cohen was between the ages of 15 and 20, and Cohen dedicated the book to his late father.[11] The well-known Canadian literary critic Northrop Frye wrote a review of the book in which he gave Cohen 'restrained praise'.[11]...In 1966 Cohen also published Parasites of Heaven, a book of poems. Both Beautiful Losers and Parasites of Heaven received mixed reviews and sold few copies.[11]...And yet, despite his 'disappointing' career, and before ever publishing a song, Cohen was the subject of a 44-minute-long short documentary from the National Film Board called Ladies and Gentlemen... Mr. Leonard Cohen...It was not until 1984 that Cohen published his next book of poems, Book of Mercy, which won him the Canadian Authors Association Literary Award for Poetry."

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Cohen#Poetry_and_novels

> Try to remember

You're the one who either forgot or never knew that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before becoming a folk singer.

HTH and HAND>

General-Zod wrote:

> Michael Pendragon wrote:

>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 2:35:24 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
>>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>> >
>>> > So we agree, then, that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>>>
>>> > 🙂
>>> Yep....

>> Diexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> Not from your bogus magic, Voodoo Boy, you dumb mother fucker.... ha ha.


Good point.

On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 10:25:54 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> Stop lying, Pendragon.
>
> You tried to say Leonard Cohen was a a folk singer, not a poet.
>
> You were corrected.
>
> HTH and HAND.

At least Voodoo Boy admitted he was WRONG....

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> Yes, we went through this at least once before.
>>
>> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>>
>> As the article you quoted shows.

> No one is disputing that he was a poet before he became a folk singer

You sure looked like that's what you were trying tosay, dumb ass....

Zod wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-05-30 10:11 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>> > Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon.
>> >
>> > Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>> >
>> Indeed he was.
>>
>> "In 1961, McClelland & Stewart published Cohen's 2nd collection, The
>> Spice-Box of Earth (1961), which received rave reviews and sold out its
>> 1st printing. The book made him a public figure in Canada.[12] The book
>> also helped Cohen gain critical recognition as an important new voice in
>> Canadian poetry. Cohen biographer Ira Nadel stated that "reaction to the
>> finished book was enthusiastic and admiring.... The critic Robert Weaver
>> found it powerful and declared that Cohen was 'probably the best young
>> poet in English Canada right now.'"[13]
>>
>> > HTH and HAND.
>>
>> He's probably better known as a singer/songwriter, but anyone who's
>> learned anything about Cohen knows that he was a poet first.

> Quite rightly....

Exactly.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 12:51:01 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 12:25:22 AM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 11:30:15 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > Zod wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > George J. Dance wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >> On 2022-05-30 10:11 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >>> Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>> > > >>>
>> > >
>> > > >> Indeed he was.
>> > >
>> > > >> "In 1961, McClelland & Stewart published Cohen's 2nd collection, The
>> > > >> Spice-Box of Earth (1961), which received rave reviews and sold out its
>> > > >> 1st printing. The book made him a public figure in Canada.[12] The book
>> > > >> also helped Cohen gain critical recognition as an important new voice in
>> > > >> Canadian poetry. Cohen biographer Ira Nadel stated that "reaction to the
>> > > >> finished book was enthusiastic and admiring.... The critic Robert Weaver
>> > > >> found it powerful and declared that Cohen was 'probably the best young
>> > > >> poet in English Canada right now.'"[13]
>> > >
>> > > >>> HTH and HAND.
>> > >
>> > > >> He's probably better known as a singer/songwriter, but anyone who's
>> > > >> learned anything about Cohen knows that he was a poet first.
>> > >
>> > > > Now try and get that across to the stupid V.D. Boy, the ignorant poetry bigot... ha ha.
>> > > Pendragon finally seems to have stopped playing stupid and has accepted that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before becoming a singer-songwriter.
>> >
>> >
>> > What I said was that he was a successful folksinger/songwriter who parlayed his singing fame into a career as a "poet."
>> You have it backwards, then.
>>
>> Leonard Cohen was a poet long before he was a singer.
>>
>> HTH and HAND.

> Potato.

You never struck me as being a Dadaist, you shit slinging little monkey.

🙂

On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 8:46:23 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 8:43:18 AM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > On 2022-05-30 10:11 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> > > > Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon.
> > > >
> > > > Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
> > > >
> > > Indeed he was.
> > >
> > > "In 1961, McClelland & Stewart published Cohen's 2nd collection, The
> > > Spice-Box of Earth (1961), which received rave reviews and sold out its
> > > 1st printing. The book made him a public figure in Canada.[12] The book
> > > also helped Cohen gain critical recognition as an important new voice in
> > > Canadian poetry. Cohen biographer Ira Nadel stated that "reaction to the
> > > finished book was enthusiastic and admiring.... The critic Robert Weaver
> > > found it powerful and declared that Cohen was 'probably the best young
> > > poet in English Canada right now.'"[13]
> > >
> > You're cherry picking, George. The same article notes that even 5 years later, his career as a poet was still "disappointing."
> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a singer, so at least you know now that you're wrong.
> > >
> > > He's probably better known as a singer/songwriter, but anyone who's
> > > learned anything about Cohen knows that he was a poet first.

Exactly....

On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:42:40 PM UTC-4, jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:25:18 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:11:55 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: 
> > > Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon. 
> > > 
> > > Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer. 
> > > 
> > We've been over this before, Donkey. 
> > 
> > "His first published book of poetry, Let Us Compare Mythologies (1956), was published by Dudek as the first book in the McGill Poetry Series the year after Cohen's graduation. The book contained poems written largely when Cohen was between the ages of 15 and 20, and Cohen dedicated the book to his late father.[11] The well-known Canadian literary critic Northrop Frye wrote a review of the book in which he gave Cohen 'restrained praise'.[11]...In 1966 Cohen also published Parasites of Heaven, a book of poems. Both Beautiful Losers and Parasites of Heaven received mixed reviews and sold few copies.[11]...And yet, despite his 'disappointing' career, and before ever publishing a song, Cohen was the subject of a 44-minute-long short documentary from the National Film Board called Ladies and Gentlemen... Mr. Leonard Cohen...It was not until 1984 that Cohen published his next book of poems, Book of Mercy, which won him the Canadian Authors Association Literary Award for Poetry." 
> > 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Cohen#Poetry_and_novels 
> > 
> > Try to remember it, so I don't have to explain things to you a third time.
> "His poetry books "Spice box of Earth" and "Flowers for Hitler" were also published before his music career started...

Excellent poetry, to boot.

General Zod wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 8:46:23 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 8:43:18 AM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> > > On 2022-05-30 10:11 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>> >
>> > > > Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon.
>> > > >
>> > > > Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>> > > >
>> > > Indeed he was.
>> > >
>> > > "In 1961, McClelland & Stewart published Cohen's 2nd collection, The
>> > > Spice-Box of Earth (1961), which received rave reviews and sold out its
>> > > 1st printing. The book made him a public figure in Canada.[12] The book
>> > > also helped Cohen gain critical recognition as an important new voice in
>> > > Canadian poetry. Cohen biographer Ira Nadel stated that "reaction to the
>> > > finished book was enthusiastic and admiring.... The critic Robert Weaver
>> > > found it powerful and declared that Cohen was 'probably the best young
>> > > poet in English Canada right now.'"[13]
>> > >
>> > You're cherry picking, George. The same article notes that even 5 years later, his career as a poet was still "disappointing."
>> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a singer, so at least you know now that you're wrong.
>> > >
>> > > He's probably better known as a singer/songwriter, but anyone who's
>> > > learned anything about Cohen knows that he was a poet first.

> Exactly....

It was probably a sarcastic comment that backfired on him.

On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 2:35:18 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote: 
> 
> > On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 2:35:24 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote: 
> >> Will Dockery wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> > So we agree, then, that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer. 
> >> 
> >> > 🙂 
> >> Yep.... 
> 
> > Die Stink, die. 
> > Stop stinking up the place 
> > Cover your ugly face 
> > With sod so foul that only brambles dare 
> > Take root atop its filth. Your grizzled hair 
> > Long home to ticks and fleas 
> > Shall be the straw where graveworms make their bed; 
> > The earth repels you like some rank disease 
> > The sun shines brighter knowing that you're dead 
> > And songbird choirs echo "Die Stink, die."
> Talk about harassment ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'll give the libraries a few days to read my email and make a decision.  

If you're still here next monday, I'm contacting the local police.

On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 3:45:15 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> General-Zod wrote: 
> 
> > Michael Pendragon wrote: 
> 
> >> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 2:35:24 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote: 
> >>> Will Dockery wrote: 
> >>> > 
> >>> > So we agree, then, that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer. 
> >>> 
> >>> > 🙂 
> >>> Yep.... 
> 
> >> Die Stink, die. 
> >> Stop stinking up the place 
> >> Cover your ugly face 
> >> With sod so foul that only brambles dare 
> >> Take root atop its filth. Your grizzled hair 
> >> Long home to ticks and fleas 
> >> Shall be the straw where graveworms make their bed; 
> >> The earth repels you like some rank disease 
> >> The sun shines brighter knowing that you're dead 
> >> And songbird choirs echo "Die Stink, die." 
> 
> > Talk about harassment ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Again, how many posts from Pendragon have been made with not only "shut up", but also name calling and personal attacks on family and friends of posters here? 
> 
> Anyone who observes this group will see Michael Pendragon is not an innocent victim. 
> 
> HTH and HAND.

I've never heard of any law that demanded the victim be innocent.

On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 3:54:55 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 3:45:15 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: 
> > General-Zod wrote: 
> > 
> > > Michael Pendragon wrote: 
> > 
> > >> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 2:35:24 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote: 
> > >>> Will Dockery wrote: 
> > >>> > 
> > >>> > So we agree, then, that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer. 
> > >>> 
> > >>> > 🙂 
> > >>> Yep.... 
> > 
> > >> Die Stink, die. 
> > >> Stop stinking up the place 
> > >> Cover your ugly face 
> > >> With sod so foul that only brambles dare 
> > >> Take root atop its filth. Your grizzled hair 
> > >> Long home to ticks and fleas 
> > >> Shall be the straw where graveworms make their bed; 
> > >> The earth repels you like some rank disease 
> > >> The sun shines brighter knowing that you're dead 
> > >> And songbird choirs echo "Die Stink, die." 
> > 
> > > Talk about harassment ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
> > Again, how many posts from Pendragon have been made with not only "shut up", but also name calling and personal attacks on family and friends of posters here? 
> > 
> > Anyone who observes this group will see Michael Pendragon is not an innocent victim. 
> > 
> > HTH and HAND.
> I've never heard of any law that demanded the victim be innocent.

You're hardly a victim here, Pendragon.

HTH and HAND.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 2:35:24 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>> >
>> > So we agree, then, that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>>
>> > 🙂
>> Yep....

> Die Stink, die.
> Stop stinking up the place
> Cover your ugly face
> With sod so foul that only brambles dare
> Take root atop its filth.  Your grizzled hair
> Long home to ticks and fleas
> Shall be the straw where graveworms make their bed;
> The earth repels you like some rank disease
> The sun shines brighter knowing that you're dead
> And songbird choirs echo "Die Stink, die."

Talk about harassment ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

General-Zod wrote:

> Michael Pendragon wrote:

>> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 2:35:24 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
>>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>> >
>>> > So we agree, then, that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>>>
>>> > 🙂
>>> Yep....

>> Die Stink, die.
>> Stop stinking up the place
>> Cover your ugly face
>> With sod so foul that only brambles dare
>> Take root atop its filth.  Your grizzled hair
>> Long home to ticks and fleas
>> Shall be the straw where graveworms make their bed;
>> The earth repels you like some rank disease
>> The sun shines brighter knowing that you're dead
>> And songbird choirs echo "Die Stink, die."

> Talk about harassment ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Again, how many posts from Pendragon have been made with not only "shut up", but also name calling and personal attacks on family and friends of posters here?

Anyone who observes this group will see Michael Pendragon is not an innocent victim.

HTH and HAND.

Will Dockery wrote:
>
> So we agree, then, that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.

> 🙂

Without a doubt

General-Zod wrote:

> Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>> So we agree, then, that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.

>> 🙂

> Yep....

It's a standard point of the Leonard Cohen story.

Zod wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 10:25:54 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>> Stop lying, Pendragon.
>>
>> You tried to say Leonard Cohen was a a folk singer, not a poet.
>>
>> You were corrected.
>>
>> HTH and HAND.

> At least Voodoo Boy admitted he was WRONG....

Sort of.

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 2:10:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Yes, we went through this at least once before.
> >>
> >> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
> >>
> >> As the article you quoted shows.
> >>
> >> HTH and HAND.
>
> > Now that you're no longer claiming he was a "successful poet"
>
> Being one of the greatest poets of all time, obviously Leonard Cohen was a very successful poet.
>

Where do you get that he's one of the greatest poets of all time?

As a poet, he writes 60s era folk songs.

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 2:36:45 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 2:10:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: 
> > Michael Pendragon wrote: 
> > 
> > > On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: 
> > >> Yes, we went through this at least once before. 
> > >> 
> > >> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer. 
> > >> 
> > >> As the article you quoted shows. 
> > >> 
> > >> HTH and HAND. 
> > 
> > > Now that you're no longer claiming he was a "successful poet" 
> > 
> > Being one of the greatest poets of all time, obviously Leonard Cohen was a very successful poet. 
> >
> Where do you get that he's one of the greatest poets of all time? 
> 
> As a poet, he writes 60s era folk songs.

In your opinion.

🙂

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 2:45:26 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 2:36:45 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 2:10:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> Yes, we went through this at least once before.
> > > >>
> > > >> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
> > > >>
> > > >> As the article you quoted shows.
> > > >>
> > > >> HTH and HAND.
> > >
> > > > Now that you're no longer claiming he was a "successful poet"
> > >
> > > Being one of the greatest poets of all time, obviously Leonard Cohen was a very successful poet.
> > >
> > Where do you get that he's one of the greatest poets of all time?
> >
> > As a poet, he writes 60s era folk songs.
> In your opinion.

You posted your opinion.  I posted mine.

Tit for tat.

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 2:54:59 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 2:45:26 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 2:36:45 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 2:10:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> Yes, we went through this
Faat least once before.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> As the article you quoted shows.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> HTH and HAND.
> > > >
> > > > > Now that you're no longer claiming he was a "successful poet"
> > > >
> > > > Being one of the greatest poets of all time, obviously Leonard Cohen was a very successful poet.
> > > >
> > > Where do you get that he's one of the greatest poets of all time?
> > >
> > > As a poet, he writes 60s era folk songs.
> > In your opinion.
> You posted your opinion. I posted mine.
>
> Tit for tat.

Fair enough.

HTH and HAND.

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 6:00:19 PM UTC-4, rockysto...@gmail.com wrote:
> Will Dockery wrote: 
> > 
> > Yes, we went through this at least once before.
> > Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer. 
> 
> > As the article you quoted shows. 
> 
> > HTH and HAND.
> Agreed, as history shows...

Good evening, and welcome to the poetry group, Rocky

🙂

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Yes, we went through this at least once before.
>>
>> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>>
>> As the article you quoted shows.
>>
>> HTH and HAND.

> Now that you're no longer claiming he was a "successful poet"

Being one of the greatest poets of all time, obviously Leonard Cohen was a very successful poet.

HTH and HAND.

Will Dockery wrote:
>
> Yes, we went through this at least once before.

> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.

> As the article you quoted shows.

> HTH and HAND.

Agreed, as history shows...

jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:25:18 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:11:55 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon.
>> >
>> > Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>> >
>> We've been over this before, Donkey.
>>
>> "His first published book of poetry, Let Us Compare Mythologies (1956), was published by Dudek as the first book in the McGill Poetry Series the year after Cohen's graduation. The book contained poems written largely when Cohen was between the ages of 15 and 20, and Cohen dedicated the book to his late father.[11] The well-known Canadian literary critic Northrop Frye wrote a review of the book in which he gave Cohen 'restrained praise'.[11]...In 1966 Cohen also published Parasites of Heaven, a book of poems. Both Beautiful Losers and Parasites of Heaven received mixed reviews and sold few copies.[11]...And yet, despite his 'disappointing' career, and before ever publishing a song, Cohen was the subject of a 44-minute-long short documentary from the National Film Board called Ladies and Gentlemen... Mr. Leonard Cohen...It was not until 1984 that Cohen published his next book of poems, Book of Mercy, which won him the Canadian Authors Association Literary Award for Poetry."
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Cohen#Poetry_and_novels
>>
>> Try to remember it, so I don't have to explain things to you a third time..
>    "His poetry books "Spice box of Earth" and "Flowers for Hitler" were also published before his music career started...

Good evening my friend, you're correct.

General-Zod wrote:

> Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>> So we agree, then, that Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.

>>

> Yep....

A fact, why argue with a fact?

Will Dockery wrote:

> George J. Dance wrote:
>>
>> Today's poem on Penny's Poetry blog:
>> 'Tis May Now in New England, by Bliss Carman

>> Back to the golden marshes
>> Comes summer at full tide
>> [...]
>> https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2022/05/tis-may-now-in-new-england-bliss-carman.html

> Perhaps we'll known in Canada, Bliss Carman is definitely somewhat obscure here in the U.S.

> The most famous Canadian poet here would have to be Leonard Cohen.

> 🙂


Back to the starting point, which was correct from the very start.....

Zod wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 10:25:54 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>> Stop lying, Pendragon.
>>
>> You tried to say Leonard Cohen was a a folk singer, not a poet.
>>
>> You were corrected.
>>
>> HTH and HAND.

> At least Voodoo Boy admitted he was WRONG....

He really had no choice but to admit it.

On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 3:10:14 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Zod wrote: 
> 
> > Michael Pendragon wrote: 
> 
> >> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: 
> >> 
> >>> Yes, we went through this at least once before. 
> >>> 
> >>> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer. 
> >>> 
> >>> As the article you quoted shows. 
> 
> >> No one is disputing that he was a poet before he became a folk singer 
> 
> > You sure looked like that's what you were trying tosay, dumb ass....
> It was at first, until he saw it wasn't going to fly. 

For the 19th time: he achieved only limited success as a poet until *after* he had made a name for himself as a folk singer.

It makes no difference whether he wrote poetry before he wrote songs.  Songwriting/recording requires a guitar, a music studio and a producer.  Poetry only requires a pen and paper.

His fame is based upon his career as a folk singer.  His poetry is read today due to his popularity as a folk singer.

IMO he remains a folk singer who used his success in the record industry to launch his career as a "Poet."



Michael Pendragon 
"Haw... Hee Haw… Hee Haw." 
-- Will Donkey

Zod wrote:

> Michael Pendragon wrote:

>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, we went through this at least once before.
>>>
>>> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>>>
>>> As the article you quoted shows.

>> No one is disputing that he was a poet before he became a folk singer

> You sure looked like that's what you were trying tosay, dumb ass....

It was at first, until he saw it wasn't going to fly.

🙂

On Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-05-30 10:11 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > Your ignorance is showing again, Pendragon.
> >
> > Leonard Cohen was a successful poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
> >
> Indeed he was.
>
> "In 1961, McClelland & Stewart published Cohen's 2nd collection, The
> Spice-Box of Earth (1961), which received rave reviews and sold out its
> 1st printing. The book made him a public figure in Canada.[12] The book
> also helped Cohen gain critical recognition as an important new voice in
> Canadian poetry. Cohen biographer Ira Nadel stated that "reaction to the
> finished book was enthusiastic and admiring.... The critic Robert Weaver
> found it powerful and declared that Cohen was 'probably the best young
> poet in English Canada right now.'"[13]
>
> > HTH and HAND.
>
> He's probably better known as a singer/songwriter, but anyone who's
> learned anything about Cohen knows that he was a poet first.

The record was set straight here, misrepresentations corrected ^^^^^^^^^

On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 6:00:15 PM UTC-4, Rocky Stoneberg wrote:
> Karen Tellefsen wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 11:35:12 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote: 
> >> George J. Dance wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> > Today's poem on Penny's Poetry blog: 
> >> > 'Tis May Now in New England, by Bliss Carman 
> >> 
> >> > Back to the golden marshes 
> >> > Comes summer at full tide 
> >> > [...] 
> >> > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2022/05/tis-may-now-in-new-england-bliss-carman.html 
> >> Perhaps we'll known in Canada, Bliss Carman is definitely somewhat obscure here in the U.S. 
> >> 
> >> The most famous Canadian poet here would have to be Leonard Cohen. 
> >> 
> >> 🙂
> > I'd say Robert Service, though I've nothing against Leonard Cohen. 
> 
> Hello Ktell, I miss you (this is G.Z. using my new moniker)...!

Seconded.

Karen Tellefsen wrote:

> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 11:35:12 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> George J. Dance wrote:
>> >
>> > Today's poem on Penny's Poetry blog:
>> > 'Tis May Now in New England, by Bliss Carman
>>
>> > Back to the golden marshes
>> > Comes summer at full tide
>> > [...]
>> > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2022/05/tis-may-now-in-new-england-bliss-carman.html
>> Perhaps we'll known in Canada, Bliss Carman is definitely somewhat obscure here in the U.S.
>>
>> The most famous Canadian poet here would have to be Leonard Cohen.
>>
>> 🙂

> I'd say Robert Service, though I've nothing against Leonard Cohen.

Hello Ktell, I miss you (this is G.Z. using my new moniker)...!

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 12:55:12 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 3:10:14 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Zod wrote:
> >>
> >> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>
> >> >> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Yes, we went through this at least once before.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> As the article you quoted shows.
> >>
> >> >> No one is disputing that he was a poet before he became a folk singer
> >>
> >> > You sure looked like that's what you were trying today, dumb ass....
> >> It was at first, until he saw it wasn't going to fly.
>
> > For the 19th time: he achieved only limited success as a poet until *after* he had made a name for himself as a folk singer.
> Success as a poet isn't judged by book sales.

That's an oversimplification, but yes, it is.

If no one buys your work, it isn't being read.

> > It makes no difference whether he wrote poetry before he wrote songs
> When it's a simple fact that he was a poet first, it does make a difference, biographically.

That doesn't change the other, equally simple, fact that his *success* as a poet only came about because he was able to relaunch his poetic career on the basis of his success as a folk singer.

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 2:20:19 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 12:55:12 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 3:10:14 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> Zod wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> Yes, we went through this at least once before.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> As the article you quoted shows.
> >> >>
> >> >> >> No one is disputing that he was a poet before he became a folk singer
> >> >>
> >> >> > You sure looked like that's what you were trying today, dumb ass....
> >> >> It was at first, until he saw it wasn't going to fly.
> >>
> >> > For the 19th time: he achieved only limited success as a poet until *after* he had made a name for himself as a folk singer.
> >> Success as a poet isn't judged by book sales.
>
> > That's an oversimplification, but yes, it is
> No it isn't since the critics read and gave his poetry good reviews.
>
> Good critical reception is a success for the poet.

Good critical reception doesn't put food on the table.  But then one wouldn't expect you to understand the word-related concept of having a successful *career.*

Poetry is the creation of art, not a get rich quick scheme.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 3:10:14 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Zod wrote:
>>
>> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>
>> >> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Yes, we went through this at least once before.
>> >>>
>> >>> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>> >>>
>> >>> As the article you quoted shows.
>>
>> >> No one is disputing that he was a poet before he became a folk singer
>>
>> > You sure looked like that's what you were trying today, dumb ass....
>> It was at first, until he saw it wasn't going to fly.

> For the 19th time: he achieved only limited success as a poet until *after* he had made a name for himself as a folk singer.

Success as a poet isn't judged by book sales.

> It makes no difference whether he wrote poetry before he wrote songs

When it's a simple fact that he was a poet first, it does make a difference, biographically.

HTH and HAND.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 12:55:12 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>
>> > On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 3:10:14 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> Zod wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:39:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Yes, we went through this at least once before.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Leonard Cohen was a poet years before he became a Folk Rock singer.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> As the article you quoted shows.
>> >>
>> >> >> No one is disputing that he was a poet before he became a folk singer
>> >>
>> >> > You sure looked like that's what you were trying today, dumb ass....
>> >> It was at first, until he saw it wasn't going to fly.
>>
>> > For the 19th time: he achieved only limited success as a poet until *after* he had made a name for himself as a folk singer.
>> Success as a poet isn't judged by book sales.

> That's an oversimplification, but yes, it is

No it isn't since the critics read and gave his poetry good reviews.

Good critical reception is a success for the poet.