🚀 go-pugleaf

"Michael Falconer" <michael.falconer4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:34cp9sF49a8ciU1@individual.net...
> After Springer the Opera i guess now thats acceptable to say that the
> founder of Islam is a bit gay and also a child
> molester..................we are all name callers now........

Michael

Just because they do should we as Christians?

I believe we should defend our faith but I for one won't denigrate another
religion through name-calling. I'd prefer to concentrate on why it isn't the
true faith.

-=-

David

Michael Falconer offered:

> we are all name callers now

Ah, but when it gets to "my dad's bigger than yours", I reckon Jesus is
going to win.

--
For emails, put "Jet" in the subject line. Hotmail filters out and
deletes other messages.

"Michael Falconer" <michael.falconer4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:34cp9sF49a8ciU1@individual.net...
> After Springer the Opera i guess now thats acceptable to say that the
> founder of Islam is a bit gay and also a child
> molester..................we are all name callers now........

Not all of us on ukrc Michael, just one as far I can see.
Steve Hague.

"Michael Falconer" <michael.falconer4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:34cp9sF49a8ciU1@individual.net...
> After Springer the Opera i guess now thats acceptable to say that the
> founder of Islam is a bit gay and also a child
> molester..................we are all name callers now........

But surely you know that implying that someone has an equally valid though
alternative lifestyle to the heterosexual one can never be considered an
insult. I choose to believe that our Muslim friends are wise enough to
understand this ;-).
Steve Hague.

Michael Falconer wrote:

> After Springer the Opera i guess now thats acceptable to say that the
> founder of Islam is a bit gay and also a child
> molester..................we are all name callers now........

Well, you could say that, but what would it achieve? Apart from making you
look a knob, and our religion look intolerant, that is.

Dave

--
Faculty of Divinity, University of Cambridge
West Road, Cambridge, CB3 9BS
http://www.cus.cam.ac.uk/~djg39/

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 13:18:48 -0000, "Michael Falconer"
<michael.falconer4@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>After Springer the Opera i guess now thats acceptable to say that the
>founder of Islam is a bit gay and also a child molester..................we
>are all name callers now........

Michael - the "eye for an eye" principle was overturned by Jesus

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 13:18:48 -0000, "Michael Falconer"
<michael.falconer4@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>After Springer the Opera i guess now thats acceptable to say that the
>founder of Islam is a bit gay

Wouldn't know about that.

>and also a child molester

How about the following views of Mohammed?

WOMEN

Women are deficient in mind and religion.

Mohammed asked some women, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half
that of a man?" The women said, "yes," He said, "This is because of
the deficiency of the woman's mind. " Vol. 3:826
Mohammed to women: "I have not seen any one more deficient in
intelligence and religion than you." Vol. 2:541

The majority of people in hell are women.

Mohammed said, "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its
dwellers are women. " Vol. 1:28, 301; Vol. 2:161; Vol. 7:124

Women are a bad omen.

Mohammed said, " Bad omen is in the woman, the house and the horse."
Vol. 7:30

Women are harmful to men.

Mohammed said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful
to men than women." Vol. 7:33

Women may not wear wigs.

Mohammed said, " Don't wear false hair for Allah sends His curse upon
such ladies who lengthen their hair artificially." Vol. 7:133

SEX AND MARRIAGE
Mohammed's sexual strength is equal to 30 men.

Anas said, "The prophet used to visit all his wives in an hour round,
during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked
Anas, "Had the prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to
say that the prophet was given the strength of thirty (men). " Vol.
1:268

Mohammed married a 6 (SIX!!) year old girl and had sex with her when
she was 9 (NINE!!)

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet married her when she was six years
old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old." Vol.
7:64

Allah hurries to please Mohammed's sexual desires.

When the Quranic verse that allows Mohammed to postpone the turn of
any wife was revealed, and when Mohammed said that Allah allowed him
to marry his adopted son's wife, Aisha (one of his wives) told him, "O
Allah's Apostle I do not see but that your Lord hurries in pleasing
you. " Vol. 7:48

When a woman is divorced irrevocably, she can not return to her
husband until she marries (including having sexual intercourse) with
another man.

"Narrated Aisha: The wife of Rifaa Al-Qurazi came to Allah's Apostle
and said, 'O Allah's Apostle, Rifaa divorced me irrevocably. After him
I married Abdur-Rahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi who proved to be
impotent.' Allah's Apostle said to her, 'Perhaps you want to return to
Rifaa? Nay (You cannot return to Rifaa) until you and Abdur-Rahman
(the impotent man) engage in sexual intercourse! '" Vol. 7:186

ETERNAL SECURITY

No assurance of Salvation.

Mohammed said. "By Allah, though I am the apostle of Allah, yet I do
not know what Allah will do to me." Vol. 5:266

God punishes a deceased if his relatives weep.

Mohammed said, "The deceased is punished because of the weeping of his
relatives." Vol. 2:375

When you speak badly about a deceased, the deceased will go to hell.

Mohammed said, "You praised this, so Paradise has been affirmed to
him, and you spoke badly of this, so hell has been affirmed to him.
You people are Allah's witnesses on earth." Vol. 2:448

Urine on your clothes will bring punishment from God.

Mohammed said, "The deceased person is being tortured in the grave not
for a great thing to avoid, it is for being soiled with his urine. "
Vol. 2:460

MEDICINE

Drinking camel's urine will make you healthy.

"The prophet ordered them to follow his camels, and drink their milk
and urine , so they followed the camels and drank their milk and urine
till their bodies became healthy." Vol. 7:590

Fever is from the heat of hell.

Mohammed said, " Fever is from the heat of hell, so put it out (cool
it) with water." Vol. 7:619

A fly in your drink is a cure.

Mohammed said, "If a housefly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he
should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and
the other has the cure for the disease. " Vol. 4:537

How the baby's looks are determined.

Mohammed said, "As for the child, if the man's discharge precedes the
woman's discharge, the child attracts the similarity of the man, and
if the woman's discharge precedes the man's, then the child attracts
the similarity of the woman." Vol. 5:275

MISCELLANEOUS

If you eat garlic don't come to the place of worship.

Mohammed said, "Whosoever ate from this plant (i.e. garlic) should not
enter the mosque." Vol. 1:812

...................we
>are all name callers now........

Speak for yourself.

Steve Cleary

Steve Cleary <nospamth@nks.co.uk> writes:

> On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 13:18:48 -0000, "Michael Falconer"
> <michael.falconer4@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >After Springer the Opera i guess now thats acceptable to say that the
> >founder of Islam is a bit gay
>
> Wouldn't know about that.
>
> >and also a child molester
>
> How about the following views of Mohammed?

These seem to come from
    www.islamreview.com/articles/incredibleteachings.shtml

though they've been copied all over the web, generally
without attribution.

Incidentally, searching Google for "Mohammed asked
some women" (with the quotation marks) produces,
as well as the usual results, a text ad from eBay
saying "Women for sale". This is of course the
result of some weird thing Ebay have presumably
paid Google a vast sum for, where almost anything
you type in produces an "X for sale" ad from eBay.
One of my friends saw one for Clare College, Cambridge.

The references are apparently to a collection of
Hadith called "Sahih al-Bukhari". A part of that
collection is on the web at http://www.sahihalbukhari.com/
and at least some of the quotations check out. This,
for instance:

  | Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the
  | prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the
  | women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the
  | majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They
  | asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse
  | frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen
  | anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A
  | cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The
  | women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our
  | intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two
  | women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the
  | affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her
  | intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor
  | fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative.
  | He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

But this seems like a misunderstanding:

> When a woman is divorced irrevocably, she can not return to her
> husband until she marries (including having sexual intercourse) with
> another man.
>
> "Narrated Aisha: The wife of Rifaa Al-Qurazi came to Allah's Apostle
> and said, 'O Allah's Apostle, Rifaa divorced me irrevocably. After him
> I married Abdur-Rahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi who proved to be
> impotent.' Allah's Apostle said to her, 'Perhaps you want to return to
> Rifaa? Nay (You cannot return to Rifaa) until you and Abdur-Rahman
> (the impotent man) engage in sexual intercourse! '" Vol. 7:186

Isn't that last bit just a (rather callous) way of saying
"no, you can never return to him"?

There's another version of the Sahih al-Bukhari at
    http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/bukhari/ .
It's a bit easier to use for checking these things,
because the hadith are presented in order there. This
one appears to be pretty misleading:

> God punishes a deceased if his relatives weep.
>
> Mohammed said, "The deceased is punished because of the weeping of his
> relatives." Vol. 2:375

Here's what 2:375 actually says, according to that
site:

  |  Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Ubaidullah bin Abi Mulaika:
  |
  | One of the daughters of 'Uthman died at Mecca. We went to attend
  | her funeral procession. Ibn 'Umar and Ibn Abbas were also
  | present. I sat in between them (or said, I sat beside one of
  | them. Then a man came and sat beside me.) 'Abdullah bin 'Umar said
  | to 'Amr bin 'Uthman, "Will you not prohibit crying as Allah's
  | Apostle has said, 'The dead person is tortured by the crying of
  | his relatives.?" Ibn Abbas said, "Umar used to say so." Then he
  | added narrating, "I accompanied Umar on a journey from Mecca till
  | we reached Al-Baida. There he saw some travelers in the shade of a
  | Samura (A kind of forest tree). He said (to me), "Go and see who
  | those travelers are." So I went and saw that one of them was
  | Suhaib. I told this to 'Umar who then asked me to call him. So I
  | went back to Suhaib and said to him, "Depart and follow the chief
  | of the faithful believers." Later, when 'Umar was stabbed, Suhaib
  | came in weeping and saying, "O my brother, O my friend!" (on this
  | 'Umar said to him, "O Suhaib! Are you weeping for me while the
  | Prophet said, "The dead person is punished by some of the weeping
  | of his relatives?" Ibn Abbas added, "When 'Umar died I told all
  | this to Aisha and she said, 'May Allah be merciful to Umar. By
  | Allah, Allah's Apostle did not say that a believer is punished by
  | the weeping of his relatives. But he said, Allah increases the
  | punishment of a non-believer because of the weeping of his
  | relatives." Aisha further added, "The Quran is sufficient for you
  | (to clear up this point) as Allah has stated: 'No burdened soul
  | will bear another's burden.' " (35.18). Ibn Abbas then said, "Only
  | Allah makes one laugh or cry." Ibn Umar did not say anything after
  | that.

--
Gareth McCaughan
.sig under construc

Steve Cleary (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
<pn13u011k526ork6nr4an4o3bi433jph4u@4ax.com>:

> On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 13:18:48 -0000, "Michael Falconer"
> <michael.falconer4@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>After Springer the Opera i guess now thats acceptable to say that the
>>founder of Islam is a bit gay
>
> Wouldn't know about that.
>
>>and also a child molester
>
> How about the following views of Mohammed?
>
> WOMEN
>
> Women are deficient in mind and religion.
>
> Mohammed asked some women, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half
> that of a man?" The women said, "yes," He said, "This is because of
> the deficiency of the woman's mind. " Vol. 3:826
> Mohammed to women: "I have not seen any one more deficient in
> intelligence and religion than you." Vol. 2:541
>
> [ & mucel mo upon this wyse ]

Is all this in the Qur'an? References please.

(Yes I have read the Qur'an, and I don't remember anything like that.)
--
Paul Townsend
Pair them off into threes

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply

"Gareth McCaughan" <gareth.mccaughan@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:87r7kub2rm.fsf@g.mccaughan.ntlworld.com...
> Steve Cleary <nospamth@nks.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 13:18:48 -0000, "Michael Falconer"
>> <michael.falconer4@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
> Incidentally, searching Google for "Mohammed asked
> some women" (with the quotation marks) produces,
> as well as the usual results, a text ad from eBay
> saying "Women for sale".

It actually states "Low Priced Women. Big selection!". Now there's a
misnomer.

But if you look under "wife" on eBay, you get this:
http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZoldestdatingQ2druQQsorecordsperpageZ50QQsosortpropertyZ1

£1.95 seems OK for a wife. But then I'm not looking.


> This is of course the
> result of some weird thing Ebay have presumably
> paid Google a vast sum for, where almost anything
> you type in produces an "X for sale" ad from eBay.

Yes, basically any word you type is used to sell an eBay ad.
-=-
David

David Lane wrote:

[I said:]
>> Incidentally, searching Google for "Mohammed asked
>> some women" (with the quotation marks) produces,
>> as well as the usual results, a text ad from eBay
>> saying "Women for sale".
>
> It actually states "Low Priced Women. Big selection!". Now there's a
> misnomer.

The one I saw definitely said "Women for sale".

>> This is of course the
>> result of some weird thing Ebay have presumably
>> paid Google a vast sum for, where almost anything
>> you type in produces an "X for sale" ad from eBay.
>
> Yes, basically any word you type is used to sell an eBay ad.

Yep. Is it actually legal to advertise something you
do not sell, never have sold and could not legally
sell?

--
Gareth McCaughan
.sig under construc

Prai Jei wrote:

> Is all this in the Qur'an? References please.

Not the Qur'an, but in the Hadith: sayings about
Muhammad, not claimed to have come directly from
God but still treated with the utmost respect.

The references were to the Sahih al-Bukhari, a
standard collection of hadith.

--
Gareth McCaughan
.sig under construc

In message <41e2e3f2$0$20181$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>
          "David Lane" <asfo22NOSPAMTAVERYMUCH@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> £1.95 seems OK for a wife. But then I'm not looking.

Reminds me of the old joke about the chap who boasts that he paid £495 for
an electric car - then travelled to Birmingham and had to shell out £2,367
for the extension cord.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down

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