🚀 go-pugleaf

Paul Scott wrote:
>
> 32 cubic metres per minute? About a lockful every 6 or 7  minutes, I would
> think. But BW will have all paddles drawn all the way to the summit, won't
> they?
> Paul

That was my concern.  A lockful every 6 or 7 minutes 24 hours a day for
however long it takes will be a fair drain on available capacity.
Someone mentioned back pumps but of course they are no use as this
water can only be used once.  Let's hope it is a wet winter.
George

On 12 Dec 2005 07:31:42 -0800, "furnessvale" <furnessvale@aol.com>
wrote:

>I heard on the news that the fire brigade have set up a two mile long
>pipeline to suck water out of the Grand Union canal to fight the fire.
>
>As they are drawing 32,000 litres per minute how long before the canal
>is shut through water shortage?
>
>George

Taking the various feeds and reservoirs into account, it probably
wouldn't notice.

Peter
--
Peter A Forbes
Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK
prepair@easynet.co.uk
http://www.prepair.co.uk

furnessvale wrote:
> I heard on the news that the fire brigade have set up a two mile long
> pipeline to suck water out of the Grand Union canal to fight the fire.
>
> As they are drawing 32,000 litres per minute how long before the canal
> is shut through water shortage?
>
> George

At the end of the summer I think BW were virtually running Tring summit from
the Northchurch bole hole with backpumping. This was due to not being able
to draw from the reservoirs due to blue/green algea. Being a nosey sort I
had a look at the BW log book through the pumphouse window and could just
make out that it had been on for around 16 hours a day for this period.
There is also a large sewage farm outlet at Bourne End that tends to over
feed the canal at that point.

--
Neil Arlidge - NB Earnest
Follow the travels of the TNC at : http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk

On 12 Dec 2005 07:31:42 -0800, "furnessvale" <furnessvale@aol.com>
wrote:

>I heard on the news that the fire brigade have set up a two mile long
>pipeline to suck water out of the Grand Union canal to fight the fire.
>
>As they are drawing 32,000 litres per minute how long before the canal
>is shut through water shortage?
>

I would think that volume would be hardly noticed.

A good reason to keep canal system in top order as a strategic water
reserve - but would the government take it into account when
allocating money to BW ?


--

Malcolm
webmaster http://www.nb-president.org.uk/

"Neil Arlidge" <neil@tuesdaynightclub.co.uk> wrote in message
news:e-ydnWxDKfLmPgDenZ2dnUVZ8tydnZ2d@giganews.com...
> furnessvale wrote:
> > I heard on the news that the fire brigade have set up a two mile long
> > pipeline to suck water out of the Grand Union canal to fight the fire.
> >
> > As they are drawing 32,000 litres per minute how long before the canal
> > is shut through water shortage?
> >
> > George
>
> At the end of the summer I think BW were virtually running Tring summit
from
> the Northchurch bole hole with backpumping. This was due to not being able
> to draw from the reservoirs due to blue/green algea. Being a nosey sort I
> had a look at the BW log book through the pumphouse window and could just
> make out that it had been on for around 16 hours a day for this period.
> There is also a large sewage farm outlet at Bourne End that tends to over
> feed the canal at that point.

Now that could be interesting........
The bottom of that pound produces large amounts of methane ;-)

J

"Malcolm N....." <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote in message
news:t79rp1dvbkdr77c2eaauau6r17ija7ll2o@4ax.com...
>
>>I heard on the news that the fire brigade have set up a two mile long
>>pipeline to suck water out of the Grand Union canal to fight the fire.
>>
>>As they are drawing 32,000 litres per minute how long before the canal
>>is shut through water shortage?
>
> I would think that volume would be hardly noticed.
>

> Malcolm

32 cubic metres per minute? About a lockful every 6 or 7  minutes, I would
think. But BW will have all paddles drawn all the way to the summit, won't
they?

Paul

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:26:44 +0000 (UTC), "Paul Scott"
<notvalidpmscott@btinternet.com> wrote:

>32 cubic metres per minute? About a lockful every 6 or 7  minutes, I would
>think. But BW will have all paddles drawn all the way to the summit, won't
>they?
>

Or just the paddle at the reservoir - with water going through
bywashes.

It's a emergency isn't it


--

Malcolm
webmaster http://www.nb-president.org.uk/

"Malcolm N....." <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote in message
news:didrp194plj503ruelqhd9i3jq7keeh5ap@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:26:44 +0000 (UTC), "Paul Scott"
> <notvalidpmscott@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>32 cubic metres per minute? About a lockful every 6 or 7  minutes, I would
>>think. But BW will have all paddles drawn all the way to the summit, won't
>>they?
>>
>
> Or just the paddle at the reservoir - with water going through
> bywashes.
>
> It's a emergency isn't it

> Malcolm


Hope BW are metering the consumption.
They will be able hopefully to render a tidy sized bill when it is all
sorted.

Pete
www.thecanalshop.com

Malcolm N..... wrote:
> On 12 Dec 2005 07:31:42 -0800, "furnessvale" <furnessvale@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I heard on the news that the fire brigade have set up a two mile long
>> pipeline to suck water out of the Grand Union canal to fight the
>> fire.
>>
>> As they are drawing 32,000 litres per minute how long before the
>> canal is shut through water shortage?
>>
>
> I would think that volume would be hardly noticed.
>
> A good reason to keep canal system in top order as a strategic water
> reserve - but would the government take it into account when
> allocating money to BW ?

Maybe Mr Prescott will get it back?

--
Neil Arlidge - NB Earnest
Follow the travels of the TNC at : http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk

furnessvale wrote:

>
> That was my concern.  A lockful every 6 or 7 minutes 24 hours a day for
> however long it takes will be a fair drain on available capacity.
> Someone mentioned back pumps but of course they are no use as this
> water can only be used once.  Let's hope it is a wet winter.
> George
>
Depends on the drainage.  It may run back.

Mixed with the oil and foam of course...


Andy

"Andy Champ" <no.way@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jc6dnfzCGbrjdQDeRVny1g@pipex.net...
> furnessvale wrote:
>
>>
>> That was my concern.  A lockful every 6 or 7 minutes 24 hours a day for
>> however long it takes will be a fair drain on available capacity.
>> Someone mentioned back pumps but of course they are no use as this
>> water can only be used once.  Let's hope it is a wet winter.
>> George
>>
> Depends on the drainage.  It may run back.
>
> Mixed with the oil and foam of course...
>
>


I would expect the EA to be advising about the fire run off water.  It's not
inconceivable that the site has an interceptor tank, they may well try to
re-cycle the water and/or pump it to tankers for toxic waste disposal.  A
lot will depend where the drains actually run to.  When we had our fire at
Lancaster, the storm drains run to the Lune, so the EA were keen to stop the
water reaching the river.

--
--
Ron Jones

Don't repeat history, see unreported near misses in chemical lab/plant at
http://www.crhf.org.uk
Only two things are certain: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not
certain about the universe.
~ Albert Einstein

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:20:55 -0000, "Ron Jones" <ron@ronjones.org.uk>
wrote:

>I would expect the EA to be advising about the fire run off water.  It's not
>inconceivable that the site has an interceptor tank, they may well try to
>re-cycle the water and/or pump it to tankers for toxic waste disposal.

I'm fairly certain I heard the fire chief say run off water  was under
control.

That was at this afternoons press briefing - quite how much water they
can contain they didn't say.

Is there any firm news on what BW are doing with the reservoirs etc.
???.


--

Malcolm
webmaster http://www.nb-president.org.uk/

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:32:01 +0000, Malcolm N.....
<malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:20:55 -0000, "Ron Jones" <ron@ronjones.org.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>I would expect the EA to be advising about the fire run off water.  It's not
>>inconceivable that the site has an interceptor tank, they may well try to
>>re-cycle the water and/or pump it to tankers for toxic waste disposal.
>
>I'm fairly certain I heard the fire chief say run off water  was under
>control.
>

Confirmed by Operations Director of Environmental agency on Newsnight
on BBC2 this evening.

--

Malcolm
webmaster http://www.nb-president.org.uk/

The latest information from British Waterways (South East Waterways) is
that no water is currently being extracted from the Grand Union. The
emergency services are currently using 'run-off' lakes beside the M1
motorway.

It is possible that water may be needed from the Grand Union- but the
amount required would not significantly change the water level of the
canal.

If you need any further information South East Waterways contact number
is 01908 302500.

furnessvale wrote:
> I heard on the news that the fire brigade have set up a two mile long
> pipeline to suck water out of the Grand Union canal to fight the fire.
>
> As they are drawing 32,000 litres per minute how long before the canal
> is shut through water shortage?
>
> George

Malcolm N..... <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote:
: On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:32:01 +0000, Malcolm N.....
: <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote:

: >On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:20:55 -0000, "Ron Jones" <ron@ronjones.org.uk>
: >wrote:
: >
: >>I would expect the EA to be advising about the fire run off water.  It's not
: >>inconceivable that the site has an interceptor tank, they may well try to
: >>re-cycle the water and/or pump it to tankers for toxic waste disposal.
: >
: >I'm fairly certain I heard the fire chief say run off water  was under
: >control.
: >

: Confirmed by Operations Director of Environmental agency on Newsnight
: on BBC2 this evening.

Just to say I've done a lot of work on petrochemical disaster
scenarios, and clambered over many plants and tank farms.   These
things are generally very well thought out, with bunds, interceptor
tanks and plans for the handling of contaminated water.   I have been
impressed by the way the whole thing has been managed, and surprised
by how little damage has been caused, given that the explosion was
probably a fuel/air detonation under an inversion layer.   Companies I
have worked with have assumed that such an explosion (of which there
is relatively little experience) would cause structural damage over a
much wider area - in the case of Runcorn, for instance, as far as
Wigan and Crewe.

I was awake and heard the whole bang, in St Albans.   It was
impressive, to put it mildly.

--
Steve Blinkhorn <steve@prd.co.uk>

Steve Blinkhorn wrote:
> Malcolm N..... <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:32:01 +0000, Malcolm N.....
>> <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:20:55 -0000, "Ron Jones"
>>> <ron@ronjones.org.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would expect the EA to be advising about the fire run off water.
>>>> It's not inconceivable that the site has an interceptor tank, they
>>>> may well try to re-cycle the water and/or pump it to tankers for
>>>> toxic waste disposal.
>>>
>>> I'm fairly certain I heard the fire chief say run off water  was
>>> under control.
>>>
>
>> Confirmed by Operations Director of Environmental agency on Newsnight
>> on BBC2 this evening.
>
> Just to say I've done a lot of work on petrochemical disaster
> scenarios, and clambered over many plants and tank farms.   These
> things are generally very well thought out, with bunds, interceptor
> tanks and plans for the handling of contaminated water.   I have been
> impressed by the way the whole thing has been managed, and surprised
> by how little damage has been caused, given that the explosion was
> probably a fuel/air detonation under an inversion layer.   Companies I
> have worked with have assumed that such an explosion (of which there
> is relatively little experience) would cause structural damage over a
> much wider area - in the case of Runcorn, for instance, as far as
> Wigan and Crewe.

Maybee they should rebuild all the tinsheds, seeing as they acted as good
blast screens!
--
Neil Arlidge - NB Earnest
Follow the travels of the TNC at : http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:58:49 -0000, Steve Blinkhorn
<steve@newsole.prd.co.uk> wrote:

>Malcolm N..... <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote:
>: On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:32:01 +0000, Malcolm N.....
>: <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote:
>
>: >On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:20:55 -0000, "Ron Jones" <ron@ronjones.org.uk>
>: >wrote:
>: >
>: >>I would expect the EA to be advising about the fire run off water.  It's not
>: >>inconceivable that the site has an interceptor tank, they may well try to
>: >>re-cycle the water and/or pump it to tankers for toxic waste disposal.
>: >
>: >I'm fairly certain I heard the fire chief say run off water  was under
>: >control.
>: >
>
>: Confirmed by Operations Director of Environmental agency on Newsnight
>: on BBC2 this evening.
>
>Just to say I've done a lot of work on petrochemical disaster
>scenarios, and clambered over many plants and tank farms.   These
>things are generally very well thought out, with bunds, interceptor
>tanks and plans for the handling of contaminated water.   I have been
>impressed by the way the whole thing has been managed, and surprised
>by how little damage has been caused, given that the explosion was
>probably a fuel/air detonation under an inversion layer.   Companies I
>have worked with have assumed that such an explosion (of which there
>is relatively little experience) would cause structural damage over a
>much wider area - in the case of Runcorn, for instance, as far as
>Wigan and Crewe.
>

Why Runcorn?
There are lots of nasties stored in the area, but I'm not aware of
large quantities of flammable stuff. Maybe ignorance is better <g>

Cheers
Tim

Dutton Dry-Dock
Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs
Vintage diesel engine service

<liz.woznicki@britishwaterways.co.uk> wrote in message
snip
>
> It is possible that water may be needed from the Grand Union- but the
> amount required would not significantly change the water level of the
> canal.
>
> If you need any further information South East Waterways contact number
> is 01908 302500.
>

The new Eugene? Hi Liz

--
Brian Ancient Order of Sewer Ants

On 13 Dec 2005 05:55:37 -0800, liz.woznicki@britishwaterways.co.uk
picked up their mug of BW tea, sat back and said:

>The latest information from British Waterways (South East Waterways) is
>that no water is currently being extracted from the Grand Union. The
>emergency services are currently using 'run-off' lakes beside the M1
>motorway.
>
>It is possible that water may be needed from the Grand Union- but the
>amount required would not significantly change the water level of the
>canal.
>
>If you need any further information South East Waterways contact number
>is 01908 302500.
>
Thanks, Liz - nice to know you're here!

Brian L Dominic

Web Sites:
Canals: http://www.brianscanalpages.co.uk
Friends of the Cromford Canal: http://www.cromfordcanal.org.uk
(Waterways World Site of the Month, November 2005)
Mid-Derbyshire Light Railway: http://www.mdlr.co.uk

Newsgroup readers should note that the reply-to address is NOT read:
To email me, please send to brian(dot)dominic(at)tiscali(dot)co(dot)uk

Tim Leech wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:58:49 -0000, Steve Blinkhorn
> <steve@newsole.prd.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Malcolm N..... <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:32:01 +0000, Malcolm N.....
>>> <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:20:55 -0000, "Ron Jones"
>>>> <ron@ronjones.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would expect the EA to be advising about the fire run off
>>>>> water.  It's not inconceivable that the site has an interceptor
>>>>> tank, they may well try to re-cycle the water and/or pump it to
>>>>> tankers for toxic waste disposal.
>>>>
>>>> I'm fairly certain I heard the fire chief say run off water  was
>>>> under control.
>>>>
>>
>>> Confirmed by Operations Director of Environmental agency on
>>> Newsnight on BBC2 this evening.
>>
>> Just to say I've done a lot of work on petrochemical disaster
>> scenarios, and clambered over many plants and tank farms.   These
>> things are generally very well thought out, with bunds, interceptor
>> tanks and plans for the handling of contaminated water.   I have
>> been
>> impressed by the way the whole thing has been managed, and
>> surprised
>> by how little damage has been caused, given that the explosion was
>> probably a fuel/air detonation under an inversion layer.
>> Companies
>> I have worked with have assumed that such an explosion (of which
>> there is relatively little experience) would cause structural
>> damage
>> over a much wider area - in the case of Runcorn, for instance, as
>> far as Wigan and Crewe.
>>
>
> Why Runcorn?
> There are lots of nasties stored in the area, but I'm not aware of
> large quantities of flammable stuff. Maybe ignorance is better <g>
>
> Cheers
> Tim
>
> Dutton Dry-Dock
> Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs
> Vintage diesel engine service

'We' used to have a maintenance unit based there....

Mike


--
Mike & Krystyna
tug Draco
http://www.draco.org.uk

brianH wrote:
> <liz.woznicki@britishwaterways.co.uk> wrote in message
> snip
>>
>> It is possible that water may be needed from the Grand Union- but
>> the
>> amount required would not significantly change the water level of
>> the
>> canal.
>>
>> If you need any further information South East Waterways contact
>> number is 01908 302500.
>>
>
> The new Eugene? Hi Liz

At least she comes from a good background :->

Liz, just to clarify, Krystyna's maiden name is Rydzinska

Mike

--
Mike & Krystyna
tug Draco
http://www.draco.org.uk

I was talking tonight with a lakeland fuel tanker driver.
He said that he was going to bed early due to the fire disaster.
I asked if he was going to the area but he said "No"
It seems that each area are delivering to the south of their normal area.
The lakes doing Lancashire, Manchester doing the potteries & so on.
This looks like a well planned goverment emergency plan.
Probably why they said there wouldn't be a fuel shortage down south.

--
Dave Croft
Warrington
England

Michael wrote:

> The new Eugene? Hi Liz
>At least she comes from a good background :->

I'm still here, albeit busy as usual!  Liz works with me, and along
with other colleagues we aim to be more involved than I've been
personally able to be over the last few months.

And hopefully we won't be fire fighting!!

Okay, enough of the bad puns, I'm off to the airport.

Merry Christmas one and all, Eugene

"Dave Croft" <davecroft@nospammershere.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40965hF19e7j5U1@individual.net...
> I was talking tonight with a lakeland fuel tanker driver.
> He said that he was going to bed early due to the fire disaster.
> I asked if he was going to the area but he said "No"
> It seems that each area are delivering to the south of their normal area.
> The lakes doing Lancashire, Manchester doing the potteries & so on.
> This looks like a well planned goverment emergency plan.
> Probably why they said there wouldn't be a fuel shortage down south.

Sounds good, except that hasn't the UK has now signed up to some limitation
of drivers hours?  Just can't believe that last week they were all working
way below max hours limitations.

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

They were interviewing the Hertfordshire fire chief on television on Monday
night, at the time when it was decided to temporarily suspend operations for
safety reasons because, as he admitted, they didn't know what was some of
the tanks!

This I found to be unbelievable in such a major disaster situation,
especially as the fire had been already raging for at least twenty-four
hours. Surely, the fire people must have been liasing with the owners of the
plant and would within a very short time have a plan of the plant and know
exactly what was in each tank. Or was there confusion with the plant owners
themselves as to what was in each tank?..Or was there something in those
tanks which shouldn't have been, or certainly not for public consumption!
Whichever, I find it disconcerting to learn that there can be confusion
regarding what is in these massive fuel stores up and down the country.
Having said that. Congratulations to the fire fighters for tackling such an
enormous and dangerous fire and succeeding in putting it out.

Roger Murray.



"Steve Blinkhorn" <steve@newsole.prd.co.uk> wrote in message
news:11pthc9ffu0qp17@corp.supernews.com...

> Just to say I've done a lot of work on petrochemical disaster
> scenarios, and clambered over many plants and tank farms.   These
> things are generally very well thought out, with bunds, interceptor
> tanks and plans for the handling of contaminated water.   I have been
> impressed by the way the whole thing has been managed, and surprised
> by how little damage has been caused, given that the explosion was
> probably a fuel/air detonation under an inversion layer.   Companies I
> have worked with have assumed that such an explosion (of which there
> is relatively little experience) would cause structural damage over a
> much wider area - in the case of Runcorn, for instance, as far as
> Wigan and Crewe.
>
> I was awake and heard the whole bang, in St Albans.   It was
> impressive, to put it mildly.
>
> --
> Steve Blinkhorn <steve@prd.co.uk>

Hi

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:16:38 -0000, "Roger Murray"
<timbuktu@rgm8.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>They were interviewing the Hertfordshire fire chief on television on Monday
>night, at the time when it was decided to temporarily suspend operations for
>safety reasons because, as he admitted, they didn't know what was some of
>the tanks!
>
>This I found to be unbelievable in such a major disaster situation,
>especially as the fire had been already raging for at least twenty-four
>hours. Surely, the fire people must have been liasing with the owners of the
>plant and would within a very short time have a plan of the plant and know
>exactly what was in each tank. Or was there confusion with the plant owners
>themselves as to what was in each tank?
<SNIP>

The fire chief later clarified the above on TV.  He stated that they
were 98% certain what was in the tank, but even though there was only
a very small doubt, he wanted to double check with the site owners
before putting firemen in any extra danger.


>Having said that. Congratulations to the fire fighters for tackling such an
>enormous and dangerous fire and succeeding in putting it out.
I think we all agree with that; I can't see any other country dealing
with such a blaze as successfully.  It is just a great pity that the
"backbiting" has already started - claims that the fire service was
woefully prepared etc.  All the firemen involved deserve medals not
criticism.

Regards
KGB

Tim Leech <duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote:

: Why Runcorn?
: There are lots of nasties stored in the area, but I'm not aware of
: large quantities of flammable stuff. Maybe ignorance is better <g>

Well, there is (or was - haven't been involved for a while) a sphere
containing 2,000 metric tonnes of vinyl chloride monomer,  which has a
flashpoint well below the freezing point of water and which can go
bang in all sorts of interesting ways.   Plus it's toxic,
carcinogenic, mutagenic and in the 1950s was used in the USA as a
general anaesthetic.

I find a lot of the media reporting unnecessarily sensationalist and
ill-informed.   So far as I can tell, at Buncefield, given that the
initial explosion should never have happened, just about everything
seems to have been done well: the tanks exploded in a generally upward
direction, the bunds were adequate, the smoke cloud was basically just
soot and the fire service did a well-considered and admirable job.

--
Steve Blinkhorn <steve@prd.co.uk>

On 14 Dec 2005 00:17:32 -0800, eugene.baston@britishwaterways.co.uk
wrote:

>Michael wrote:
>
>> The new Eugene? Hi Liz
>>At least she comes from a good background :->
>
>I'm still here, albeit busy as usual!  Liz works with me, and along
>with other colleagues we aim to be more involved than I've been
>personally able to be over the last few months.
>
>And hopefully we won't be fire fighting!!
>
>Okay, enough of the bad puns, I'm off to the airport.
>
>Merry Christmas one and all, Eugene

Best wishes Eugene & Liz,

Thanks to you and all the BW staff
Some people on this group always seem to have half empty glasses when
talking about BW


--

Malcolm
webmaster http://www.nb-president.org.uk/

In message <11pthc9ffu0qp17@corp.supernews.com>, Steve Blinkhorn
<steve@newsole.prd.co.uk> writes
>
>I was awake and heard the whole bang, in St Albans.   It was impressive,
>to put it mildly.

Both my wife and I were fast asleep in Welwyn Garden City... but a
second later we were both wide awake and saying "WTF was that?"

Not a nice way to begin a Sunday.

        Bob
--
        Bob Adams - nb Rivendell. email address: bob55 at ntlworld.com

Steve Blinkhorn wrote:

> I find a lot of the media reporting unnecessarily sensationalist and
> ill-informed.   So far as I can tell, at Buncefield, given that the
> initial explosion should never have happened, just about everything
> seems to have been done well: the tanks exploded in a generally upward
> direction, the bunds were adequate, the smoke cloud was basically just
> soot and the fire service did a well-considered and admirable job.

>From what I've read (mainly the Grauniad), the criticism of the lack of
adequate preparedness on the part of the fire service is coming from the
firefighters themselves, via their Trade Un ion.


--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II  -  Felis Catus III real soon now!
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk

No man is an island.  So is Man.

"Malcolm N....." <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote in message
news:6d10q1lrldocn22gd9q0lmi0b544u9aq2p@4ax.com...
> On 14 Dec 2005 00:17:32 -0800, eugene.baston@britishwaterways.co.uk
> wrote:
>
> >Michael wrote:
> >
> >> The new Eugene? Hi Liz
> >>At least she comes from a good background :->
> >
> >I'm still here, albeit busy as usual!  Liz works with me, and along
> >with other colleagues we aim to be more involved than I've been
> >personally able to be over the last few months.
> >
> >And hopefully we won't be fire fighting!!
> >
> >Okay, enough of the bad puns, I'm off to the airport.
> >
> >Merry Christmas one and all, Eugene
>
> Best wishes Eugene & Liz,
>
> Thanks to you and all the BW staff
> Some people on this group always seem to have half empty glasses when
> talking about BW
>
>
> --
>
> Malcolm
> webmaster http://www.nb-president.org.uk/

As one whose glass isn't even half full when talking about BW management. It
is called disillusionment after years of talking about the same things, with
the same results.
Looking forward to a better new year when we can all discuss payment by use.


--
Sue nb Nackered Navvy

"KGB (KGB)" <FedUpWithSpam@NoEmailAddre.ss> wrote in message
news:439fdd84.820567@nntp.dsl.pipex.com...
> Hi
>
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:16:38 -0000, "Roger Murray"
> <timbuktu@rgm8.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>They were interviewing the Hertfordshire fire chief on television on
>>Monday
>>night, at the time when it was decided to temporarily suspend operations
>>for
>>safety reasons because, as he admitted, they didn't know what was some of
>>the tanks!
>>
snip

> with such a blaze as successfully.  It is just a great pity that the
> "backbiting" has already started - claims that the fire service was
> woefully prepared etc.  All the firemen involved deserve medals not
> criticism.
>
There is a big difference in claiming that the Fire Service was woefulluy
prepaired and criticising the Firmen
--
Brian Ancient Order of Sewer Ants

>"Malcolm N....." <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote in message
>news:6d10q1lrldocn22gd9q0lmi0b544u9aq2p@4ax.com...
>>
>> Thanks to you and all the BW staff
>> Some people on this group always seem to have half empty glasses when
>> talking about BW
>>
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:02:07 GMT, "Sue" <sue@nonavvy.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:

>As one whose glass isn't even half full when talking about BW management. It
>is called disillusionment after years of talking about the same things, with
>the same results.
>Looking forward to a better new year when we can all discuss payment by use.


Note - I said to BW STAFF.

Meaning the staff who work under sometimes difficult conditions to
maintain the system, and the vast majority of whom are unfailingly
helpful.

--

Malcolm
webmaster http://www.nb-president.org.uk/

"Malcolm N....." <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote in message
news:sem0q1t6gg97k4hjsr0n2m22mmdc1gvut9@4ax.com...
>
>>"Malcolm N....." <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote in message
>>news:6d10q1lrldocn22gd9q0lmi0b544u9aq2p@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Thanks to you and all the BW staff
>>> Some people on this group always seem to have half empty glasses when
>>> talking about BW
snip
> Note - I said to BW STAFF.
>
> Meaning the staff who work under sometimes difficult conditions to
> maintain the system, and the vast majority of whom are unfailingly
> helpful.
>

But they are ALL Staff, even the man at the top. But I do agggree ALL the
ones I have had personal contact with have been great, (I hope the new Gold
Licence arrives before Christmas)

--
Brian Ancient Order of Sewer Ants

brianH wrote:
> "Malcolm N....." <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:sem0q1t6gg97k4hjsr0n2m22mmdc1gvut9@4ax.com...
>>
>>> "Malcolm N....." <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:6d10q1lrldocn22gd9q0lmi0b544u9aq2p@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to you and all the BW staff
>>>> Some people on this group always seem to have half empty glasses
>>>> when talking about BW
> snip
>> Note - I said to BW STAFF.
>>
>> Meaning the staff who work under sometimes difficult conditions to
>> maintain the system, and the vast majority of whom are unfailingly
>> helpful.
>>
>
> But they are ALL Staff, even the man at the top. But I do agggree ALL
> the ones I have had personal contact with have been great, (I hope
> the new Gold Licence arrives before Christmas)

Mine has, rather predictably a couple of hours after I went to the boatyard
to charge batteries....

--
Neil Arlidge - NB Earnest
Follow the travels of the TNC at : http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk

"Malcolm N....." <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote in message
news:sem0q1t6gg97k4hjsr0n2m22mmdc1gvut9@4ax.com...
>
> >"Malcolm N....." <malcolm@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote in message
> >news:6d10q1lrldocn22gd9q0lmi0b544u9aq2p@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> Thanks to you and all the BW staff
> >> Some people on this group always seem to have half empty glasses when
> >> talking about BW
> >>
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:02:07 GMT, "Sue" <sue@nonavvy.freeserve.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >As one whose glass isn't even half full when talking about BW management.
It
> >is called disillusionment after years of talking about the same things,
with
> >the same results.
> >Looking forward to a better new year when we can all discuss payment by
use.
>
>
> Note - I said to BW STAFF.
>
> Meaning the staff who work under sometimes difficult conditions to
> maintain the system, and the vast majority of whom are unfailingly
> helpful.
>
> --
>
> Malcolm
> webmaster http://www.nb-president.org.uk/

I do apologise. As you referred to a manager at Watford I assumed you were
writing about management. The joys of reading emails quickly. I have nothing
but praise for the "on the ground" staff who do a difficult job. If there
were twice the number on the ground & half the number in the offices the
canals would be better run.
--
Sue nb Nackered Navvy

In message <VY%nf.19980$8v6.6246@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Sue
<sue@nonavvy.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>I do apologise. As you referred to a manager at Watford I assumed you were
>writing about management. The joys of reading emails quickly. I have nothing
>but praise for the "on the ground" staff who do a difficult job. If there
>were twice the number on the ground & half the number in the offices the
>canals would be better run.

You live on a different planet from me. Of course the lads know how the
job should be done... where they are. Management has to balance their
requirements against the rest of the system's. Just because in so doing
they are unable to meet your needs doesn't mean they've something
against you.
--
David Long
Sankey Canal Restoration Society http://www.scars.org.uk/
St. Mary's http://www.geocities.com/andrew_fishburn/stmary1.html
http://www.scars.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/webcam/

Steve Blinkhorn wrote:
> Tim Leech <duttondock@onetel.no.spam.com> wrote:
>
>> Why Runcorn?
>> There are lots of nasties stored in the area, but I'm not aware of
>> large quantities of flammable stuff. Maybe ignorance is better <g>
>
> Well, there is (or was - haven't been involved for a while) a sphere
> containing 2,000 metric tonnes of vinyl chloride monomer,  which has
> a
> flashpoint well below the freezing point of water and which can go
> bang in all sorts of interesting ways.   Plus it's toxic,
> carcinogenic, mutagenic and in the 1950s was used in the USA as a
> general anaesthetic.
>
> I find a lot of the media reporting unnecessarily sensationalist and
> ill-informed.   So far as I can tell, at Buncefield, given that the
> initial explosion should never have happened, just about everything
> seems to have been done well: the tanks exploded in a generally
> upward
> direction, the bunds were adequate, the smoke cloud was basically
> just
> soot and the fire service did a well-considered and admirable job.

Agreed

Mike

--
Mike & Krystyna
tug Draco
http://www.draco.org.uk

Malcolm N..... wrote:
> On 14 Dec 2005 00:17:32 -0800, eugene.baston@britishwaterways.co.uk
> wrote:
>
>> Michael wrote:
>>
>>> The new Eugene? Hi Liz
>>> At least she comes from a good background :->
>>
>> I'm still here, albeit busy as usual!  Liz works with me, and along
>> with other colleagues we aim to be more involved than I've been
>> personally able to be over the last few months.
>>
>> And hopefully we won't be fire fighting!!
>>
>> Okay, enough of the bad puns, I'm off to the airport.
>>
>> Merry Christmas one and all, Eugene
>
> Best wishes Eugene & Liz,
>
> Thanks to you and all the BW staff
> Some people on this group always seem to have half empty glasses
> when
> talking about BW

Agreed.  Compliments of the Season to all at BW

M&K

--
Mike & Krystyna
tug Draco
http://www.draco.org.uk

David Long wrote:
> In message <VY%nf.19980$8v6.6246@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Sue
> <sue@nonavvy.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>
>> I do apologise. As you referred to a manager at Watford I assumed
>> you were writing about management. The joys of reading emails
>> quickly. I have nothing but praise for the "on the ground" staff
>> who
>> do a difficult job. If there were twice the number on the ground &
>> half the number in the offices the canals would be better run.
>
> You live on a different planet from me. Of course the lads know how
> the job should be done... where they are. Management has to balance
> their requirements against the rest of the system's. Just because in
> so doing they are unable to meet your needs doesn't mean they've
> something against you.

Hear Hear!

Mike

Compliments of the Season David

--
Mike & Krystyna
tug Draco
http://www.draco.org.uk

In message <dnpo05$dl4$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, brianH
<brian@notharnser.fsbusiness.co.uuk> writes
>But they are ALL Staff, even the man at the top. But I do agggree ALL the
>ones I have had personal contact with have been great, (I hope the new Gold
>Licence arrives before Christmas)
Having just phoned to chase mine I was told that the "girl" that does
them is off sick.
They are trying to train someone else to do them.

I give you one guess as to the identity of the "girl"  (TW)
--

Julian Tether
Barge Parglena
e-mail: julian@parglena.co.uk

"David Long" <David@n0ne.c0m> wrote in message
news:NWZKMYImkJoDJw+j@scars.org.uk...
> In message <VY%nf.19980$8v6.6246@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Sue
> <sue@nonavvy.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> >
> >I do apologise. As you referred to a manager at Watford I assumed you
were
> >writing about management. The joys of reading emails quickly. I have
nothing
> >but praise for the "on the ground" staff who do a difficult job. If there
> >were twice the number on the ground & half the number in the offices the
> >canals would be better run.
>
> You live on a different planet from me. Of course the lads know how the
> job should be done... where they are. Management has to balance their
> requirements against the rest of the system's. Just because in so doing
> they are unable to meet your needs doesn't mean they've something
> against you.
> --
> David Long

I'm sure BW management or staff have nothing against me. I have no idea what
you mean by my needs not being met. As you know more than I do I will wish
you a merry Christmas.
--
Sue nb Nackered Navvy

"Julian Tether" <Julian@parglena.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tTYoNDCCMToDFwCl@parglena.co.uk...
> In message <dnpo05$dl4$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, brianH
> <brian@notharnser.fsbusiness.co.uuk> writes
>>But they are ALL Staff, even the man at the top. But I do agggree ALL the
>>ones I have had personal contact with have been great, (I hope the new
>>Gold
>>Licence arrives before Christmas)
> Having just phoned to chase mine I was told that the "girl" that does them
> is off sick.
> They are trying to train someone else to do them.
>
> I give you one guess as to the identity of the "girl"  (TW)


I just hope we don't miss out on our discount for renewing promptly

--
Brian Ancient Order of Sewer Ants

In message <0Pcof.31415$Cj5.17369@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>, Sue
<sue@nonavvy.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>"David Long" <David@n0ne.c0m> wrote in message
>news:NWZKMYImkJoDJw+j@scars.org.uk...
>> In message <VY%nf.19980$8v6.6246@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Sue
>> <sue@nonavvy.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>> >
>> >I do apologise. As you referred to a manager at Watford I assumed you
>were
>> >writing about management. The joys of reading emails quickly. I have
>nothing
>> >but praise for the "on the ground" staff who do a difficult job. If there
>> >were twice the number on the ground & half the number in the offices the
>> >canals would be better run.
>>
>> You live on a different planet from me. Of course the lads know how the
>> job should be done... where they are. Management has to balance their
>> requirements against the rest of the system's. Just because in so doing
>> they are unable to meet your needs doesn't mean they've something
>> against you.
>> --
>> David Long
>
>I'm sure BW management or staff have nothing against me. I have no idea what
>you mean by my needs not being met. As you know more than I do I will wish
>you a merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas to you, too. However, if you've no grouse with BW
management, why snipe at them as you do?
--
David Long
Sankey Canal Restoration Society http://www.scars.org.uk/
St. Mary's http://www.geocities.com/andrew_fishburn/stmary1.html
http://www.scars.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/webcam/

In message <dnscqc$n5k$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, brianH
<brian@notharnser.fsbusiness.co.uuk> writes
>"Julian Tether" <Julian@parglena.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:tTYoNDCCMToDFwCl@parglena.co.uk...
>> In message <dnpo05$dl4$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, brianH
>> <brian@notharnser.fsbusiness.co.uuk> writes
>>>But they are ALL Staff, even the man at the top. But I do agggree ALL the
>>>ones I have had personal contact with have been great, (I hope the new
>>>Gold
>>>Licence arrives before Christmas)
>> Having just phoned to chase mine I was told that the "girl" that does them
>> is off sick.
>> They are trying to train someone else to do them.
>>
>> I give you one guess as to the identity of the "girl"  (TW)
>
>
>I just hope we don't miss out on our discount for renewing promptly
>
My Credit card has been billed so I guess I'm OK.
They must have someone doing it now mind you mine was at the top of the
pile after my enquiry.

--

Julian Tether
Barge Parglena
e-mail: julian@parglena.co.uk

Julian Tether wrote:
> In message <dnpo05$dl4$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, brianH
> <brian@notharnser.fsbusiness.co.uuk> writes
>> But they are ALL Staff, even the man at the top. But I do agggree
>> ALL the ones I have had personal contact with have been great, (I
>> hope the new Gold Licence arrives before Christmas)
> Having just phoned to chase mine I was told that the "girl" that
> does
> them is off sick.
> They are trying to train someone else to do them.
>
> I give you one guess as to the identity of the "girl"  (TW)

Ours (not a Gold Licence) was turned round in 4 days!

Mike

--
Mike & Krystyna
tug Draco
http://www.draco.org.uk

In a recent message David Long <David@n0ne.c0m> wrote:

>
> Merry Christmas to you, too. However, if you've no grouse with BW
> management, why snipe at them as you do?


I would like to add that in the 30+ years that we boated on BW
waters I can think of only one exception to the rule that the
employees of BWB were helpful and cheerful whenever we had
dealings with them.

In particular, when we moored at Norbury Junction and later
at Wheaton Aston, the Section Inspector, Bill Dean, and
his team based at Norbury were excellent.

The Area Engineer (Brian Haskins?) was also very much on the ball.

In the final year of boating when we took a distressed owl
to the yard at Hillmorton, a man there, whose name I regret
I forget, had an owl expert to hand in less than 30 minutes.

The exception was a lock-keeper whom I somehow managed to offend
nearly every time I went through his lock!

Perhaps I was too used to Thames methods...

A Merry Christmas to one and all.

--
Tony Clayton           tony.clayton.1962@pem.cam.ac.uk
Coins of the UK      : http://www.coinsoftheuk.info
Sent using RISCOS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
... DANGER! DANGER! Computer Store Ahead, Hide Wallet.

"Michael Wooding" <mike.wooding@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:qM0of.10087$zt1.3006@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
> Malcolm N..... wrote:
>> On 14 Dec 2005 00:17:32 -0800, eugene.baston@britishwaterways.co.uk
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>> The new Eugene? Hi Liz
>>>> At least she comes from a good background :->
>>>
>>> I'm still here, albeit busy as usual!  Liz works with me, and along
>>> with other colleagues we aim to be more involved than I've been
>>> personally able to be over the last few months.
>>>
>>> And hopefully we won't be fire fighting!!
>>>
>>> Okay, enough of the bad puns, I'm off to the airport.
>>>
>>> Merry Christmas one and all, Eugene
>>
>> Best wishes Eugene & Liz,
>>
>> Thanks to you and all the BW staff
>> Some people on this group always seem to have half empty glasses when
>> talking about BW
>
> Agreed.  Compliments of the Season to all at BW
>
> M&K
>
> --
> Mike & Krystyna
> tug Draco
> http://www.draco.org.uk
>
>
May UI add that I have never had less than perfect treatment from and BW
staff, office or front-line.
Merry Christmas to you all (BW and url'ers)


--

JOhn

NB Ernest (that one, not the other one)

My indecision is final.

"Michael Wooding" <mike.wooding@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:Dizof.15144$b4.10320@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
> Julian Tether wrote:
>> In message <dnpo05$dl4$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, brianH
>> <brian@notharnser.fsbusiness.co.uuk> writes
>>> But they are ALL Staff, even the man at the top. But I do agggree
>>> ALL the ones I have had personal contact with have been great, (I
>>> hope the new Gold Licence arrives before Christmas)
>> Having just phoned to chase mine I was told that the "girl" that does
>> them is off sick.
>> They are trying to train someone else to do them.
>>
>> I give you one guess as to the identity of the "girl"  (TW)
>
> Ours (not a Gold Licence) was turned round in 4 days!
>
> Mike
>

No sign of mine yet and I've sent the BW ones back. Now you know why people
don't display their licence disks

--
Brian Ancient Order of Sewer Ants

"brianH" <brian@notharnser.fsbusiness.co.uuk> wrote in message
news:do6qum$4da$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> No sign of mine yet and I've sent the BW ones back. Now you know why
people
> don't display their licence disks

Nor mine, well no sign on Saturday,  all I know is that they have taken the
money.
I will check the post tomorrow......