🚀 go-pugleaf

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:01:21 GMT, Robin T Cox <nomail@nomail.net>
wrote:

>More than two-thirds of the 1,019 respondents said they were Christian,
>but only 17% regularly went to church.
>
>Almost 75% of respondents said the UK should retain Christian values - <snip>

That sounds a lot like the US. (Regardless of what you have heard.)

I think I have heard it best put as "celebratory deism", where when
pressed as to "what religion are you?" the majority in the US will
respond Christian though only a minority (perhaps 17%?) actually go
through the trappings and ritualism.

Politicians, to garner votes and acceptance, will show up at churches
on Sundays as photo-ops -- such as Bill Clinton and his Hollywood
prop-like large bible with the huge gold cross on the front. You would
probably be surprised at the amount of Sundays John Kerry and Al Gore
spent at churches during their failed campaigns and that they seem to
favor black baptist churches.  But then you may not, Blair and others
over there may do the same sort of thing.

Others, not politicians, seem to have to wear their Atheism as some
badge of pride and courage and incessantly have to tell others about
it.  Then that becomes a religion unto itself with secular gods of
reason and logic and they its acolytes.

FACE

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:45:59 +0000, Arthur Figgis
<postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:01:21 GMT, Robin T Cox <nomail@nomail.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Britons 'back Christian society'
>>
>>BBC News
>>14 November 2005
>>
>>Most Britons describe themselves as Christian despite not attending church
>>regularly, a BBC survey has found.
>>
>>The poll taken for BBC News 24's Faith Day examines how belief in
>>religions is shaping British identity.
>>
>>More than two-thirds of the 1,019 respondents said they were Christian,
>>but only 17% regularly went to church.
>
>I wonder if this is influenced by memories of school where "none"
>wasn't allowed as an answer, or filling in forms where "none" was
>instantly replaced with "CofE".

I would guess this is probably the case. My mother, who was rabidly
anti-religion in any form whatsoever, would always put CofE in the
religion box of any form she was filling out for her kids or herself.
I'm actaully surprised by the figured of 17% as regular church goers.
I would put that number much lower from personal experience and
observation.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:01:21 GMT, Robin T Cox <nomail@nomail.net>
wrote:

>Britons 'back Christian society'
>
>BBC News
>14 November 2005
>
>Most Britons describe themselves as Christian despite not attending church
>regularly, a BBC survey has found.
>
>The poll taken for BBC News 24's Faith Day examines how belief in
>religions is shaping British identity.
>
>More than two-thirds of the 1,019 respondents said they were Christian,
>but only 17% regularly went to church.

I wonder if this is influenced by memories of school where "none"
wasn't allowed as an answer, or filling in forms where "none" was
instantly replaced with "CofE". Also, I suspect few people are daft
enough to say "none" when someone asks about their religion, because
of the high risk of it being heard as "so please try to save my
soul"...

>Almost 75% of respondents said the UK should retain Christian values -
>including 69% of Jews, and nearly 50% of Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus.
>
>More:
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4434096.stm
>=========================================================================
>
>Read this in order to understand how the Brits regard religion. In
>general, we seem to feel that religion was made for the benefit of
>mankind, not vice versa.

So far this year I've embraced the remains of St James, rubbed the orb
of Our Lady of Halfway Up A Mountain, not been able to eat in a fast
period, removed my shoes for a clutch of Buddahs, and made an offering
of flowers to whatever type of god lives in a fancy bird table at a
Siamese road junction. I reckon my soul ought to be safe for a while. 

-- 
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message 
news:0nlhn19efcsda336s1va2mfu2fn707icmv@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:01:21 GMT, Robin T Cox <nomail@nomail.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Britons 'back Christian society'
>>
>>BBC News
>>14 November 2005
>>
>>Most Britons describe themselves as Christian despite not attending 
>>church
>>regularly, a BBC survey has found.
>>
>>The poll taken for BBC News 24's Faith Day examines how belief in
>>religions is shaping British identity.
>>
>>More than two-thirds of the 1,019 respondents said they were Christian,
>>but only 17% regularly went to church.
>
> I wonder if this is influenced by memories of school where "none"
> wasn't allowed as an answer, or filling in forms where "none" was
> instantly replaced with "CofE". Also, I suspect few people are daft
> enough to say "none" when someone asks about their religion, because
> of the high risk of it being heard as "so please try to save my
> soul"...

Huh?  You mean to tell me that Brits arwe allowed to speak freely about 
their religious affiliations, or are otherwise not inclined to say what 
those affiliations are for fear of being accused of having religious 
affiliations?  Your response makes no sense, Art.

>>Almost 75% of respondents said the UK should retain Christian values -
>>including 69% of Jews, and nearly 50% of Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus.
>>
>>More:
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4434096.stm
>>=========================================================================
>>
>>Read this in order to understand how the Brits regard religion. In
>>general, we seem to feel that religion was made for the benefit of
>>mankind, not vice versa.
>
> So far this year I've embraced the remains of St James, rubbed the orb
> of Our Lady of Halfway Up A Mountain, not been able to eat in a fast
> period, removed my shoes for a clutch of Buddahs, and made an offering
> of flowers to whatever type of god lives in a fancy bird table at a
> Siamese road junction. I reckon my soul ought to be safe for a while.
>
> -- 
> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

Umm, none of which appears to have helped you much.  :-)

George 

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:01:21 GMT, Robin T Cox <nomail@nomail.net>
wrote:

>Britons 'back Christian society'
>
>BBC News
>14 November 2005
>
>Most Britons describe themselves as Christian despite not attending church
>regularly, a BBC survey has found.
>
>The poll taken for BBC News 24's Faith Day examines how belief in
>religions is shaping British identity.
>
>More than two-thirds of the 1,019 respondents said they were Christian,
>but only 17% regularly went to church.
>
>Almost 75% of respondents said the UK should retain Christian values -
>including 69% of Jews, and nearly 50% of Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus.

Does watching Star Wars and claiming the jedi faith count?



--
www.senaction.com

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:41:34 +0000, guv <guv69@msn.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:01:21 GMT, Robin T Cox <nomail@nomail.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Britons 'back Christian society'
>>
>>BBC News
>>14 November 2005
>>
>>Most Britons describe themselves as Christian despite not attending church
>>regularly, a BBC survey has found.
>>
>>The poll taken for BBC News 24's Faith Day examines how belief in
>>religions is shaping British identity.
>>
>>More than two-thirds of the 1,019 respondents said they were Christian,
>>but only 17% regularly went to church.
>>
>>Almost 75% of respondents said the UK should retain Christian values -
>>including 69% of Jews, and nearly 50% of Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus.
>
>Does watching Star Wars and claiming the jedi faith count?

Would that be Christian Jedi, Muslim Jedi, Hindu Jedi, ...?
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from uk.c-e.t)

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:57:10 GMT, "George"
<george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:

>
>"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>news:0nlhn19efcsda336s1va2mfu2fn707icmv@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:01:21 GMT, Robin T Cox <nomail@nomail.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Britons 'back Christian society'
>>>
>>>BBC News
>>>14 November 2005
>>>
>>>Most Britons describe themselves as Christian despite not attending
>>>church
>>>regularly, a BBC survey has found.
>>>
>>>The poll taken for BBC News 24's Faith Day examines how belief in
>>>religions is shaping British identity.
>>>
>>>More than two-thirds of the 1,019 respondents said they were Christian,
>>>but only 17% regularly went to church.
>>
>> I wonder if this is influenced by memories of school where "none"
>> wasn't allowed as an answer, or filling in forms where "none" was
>> instantly replaced with "CofE". Also, I suspect few people are daft
>> enough to say "none" when someone asks about their religion, because
>> of the high risk of it being heard as "so please try to save my
>> soul"...
>
>Huh?  You mean to tell me that Brits arwe allowed to speak freely about
>their religious affiliations,

Of course they are. Though they will probably find the room emptying
of other people once they start talking about religion.

>or are otherwise not inclined to say what
>those affiliations are for fear of being accused of having religious
>affiliations?  Your response makes no sense, Art.

"So, are you religious?" is a question like "do you have double
glazing/a timeshare?". It is generally a conversation best avoided.

--
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:9p4in15hqh2gog2hd6n8546ar83tk8svq0@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:57:10 GMT, "George"
> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>>news:0nlhn19efcsda336s1va2mfu2fn707icmv@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:01:21 GMT, Robin T Cox <nomail@nomail.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Britons 'back Christian society'
>>>>
>>>>BBC News
>>>>14 November 2005
>>>>
>>>>Most Britons describe themselves as Christian despite not attending
>>>>church
>>>>regularly, a BBC survey has found.
>>>>
>>>>The poll taken for BBC News 24's Faith Day examines how belief in
>>>>religions is shaping British identity.
>>>>
>>>>More than two-thirds of the 1,019 respondents said they were Christian,
>>>>but only 17% regularly went to church.
>>>
>>> I wonder if this is influenced by memories of school where "none"
>>> wasn't allowed as an answer, or filling in forms where "none" was
>>> instantly replaced with "CofE". Also, I suspect few people are daft
>>> enough to say "none" when someone asks about their religion, because
>>> of the high risk of it being heard as "so please try to save my
>>> soul"...
>>
>>Huh?  You mean to tell me that Brits arwe allowed to speak freely about
>>their religious affiliations,
>
> Of course they are. Though they will probably find the room emptying
> of other people once they start talking about religion.

Do they also file out of a room when asked the question in a survey?

>>or are otherwise not inclined to say what
>>those affiliations are for fear of being accused of having religious
>>affiliations?  Your response makes no sense, Art.
>
> "So, are you religious?" is a question like "do you have double
> glazing/a timeshare?". It is generally a conversation best avoided.

Why?  Do you find your religion embarrassing?

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:58:45 GMT, "George"
<george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:

>
>"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>news:9p4in15hqh2gog2hd6n8546ar83tk8svq0@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:57:10 GMT, "George"
>> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:


>>>Huh?  You mean to tell me that Brits arwe allowed to speak freely about
>>>their religious affiliations,
>>
>> Of course they are. Though they will probably find the room emptying
>> of other people once they start talking about religion.
>
>Do they also file out of a room when asked the question in a survey?

Quite possibly. While scanning the horizon for prowling Jehovah's
Witnesses and Mormons.

>>>or are otherwise not inclined to say what
>>>those affiliations are for fear of being accused of having religious
>>>affiliations?  Your response makes no sense, Art.
>>
>> "So, are you religious?" is a question like "do you have double
>> glazing/a timeshare?". It is generally a conversation best avoided.
>
>Why?  Do you find your religion embarrassing?

Not wanting to get cornered by a "salesman".

Essentially, religion is a private and personal thing here, not a
public thing.

--
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:hu6in1tmpg2utlnev60ntqgpedi0gfd9pt@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:58:45 GMT, "George"
> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>>news:9p4in15hqh2gog2hd6n8546ar83tk8svq0@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:57:10 GMT, "George"
>>> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>>Huh?  You mean to tell me that Brits arwe allowed to speak freely about
>>>>their religious affiliations,
>>>
>>> Of course they are. Though they will probably find the room emptying
>>> of other people once they start talking about religion.
>>
>>Do they also file out of a room when asked the question in a survey?
>
> Quite possibly. While scanning the horizon for prowling Jehovah's
> Witnesses and Mormons.

How sad, since they are the easiest of religious denominations to deal
with.  When one knocks on your door, you simply politely tell them that you
are Jewish (even if you are not), and close the door.  You'll never see
them again.

>>>>or are otherwise not inclined to say what
>>>>those affiliations are for fear of being accused of having religious
>>>>affiliations?  Your response makes no sense, Art.
>>>
>>> "So, are you religious?" is a question like "do you have double
>>> glazing/a timeshare?". It is generally a conversation best avoided.
>>
>>Why?  Do you find your religion embarrassing?
>
> Not wanting to get cornered by a "salesman".
>
> Essentially, religion is a private and personal thing here, not a
> public thing.
>
> --
> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

Really?  I take it that all those churches you guys have are just for show.

George

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 01:09:18 GMT, "George"
<george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:

>
>"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>news:hu6in1tmpg2utlnev60ntqgpedi0gfd9pt@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:58:45 GMT, "George"
>> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>>>news:9p4in15hqh2gog2hd6n8546ar83tk8svq0@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:57:10 GMT, "George"
>>>> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>Huh?  You mean to tell me that Brits arwe allowed to speak freely about
>>>>>their religious affiliations,
>>>>
>>>> Of course they are. Though they will probably find the room emptying
>>>> of other people once they start talking about religion.
>>>
>>>Do they also file out of a room when asked the question in a survey?
>>
>> Quite possibly. While scanning the horizon for prowling Jehovah's
>> Witnesses and Mormons.
>
>How sad, since they are the easiest of religious denominations to deal
>with.  When one knocks on your door, you simply politely tell them that you
>are Jewish (even if you are not), and close the door.  You'll never see
>them again.

Exactly. Or you tell them you are CofE. Which is where we came in.


>>>>>or are otherwise not inclined to say what
>>>>>those affiliations are for fear of being accused of having religious
>>>>>affiliations?  Your response makes no sense, Art.
>>>>
>>>> "So, are you religious?" is a question like "do you have double
>>>> glazing/a timeshare?". It is generally a conversation best avoided.
>>>
>>>Why?  Do you find your religion embarrassing?
>>
>> Not wanting to get cornered by a "salesman".
>>
>> Essentially, religion is a private and personal thing here, not a
>> public thing.
>>
>> --
>> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK
>
>Really?  I take it that all those churches you guys have are just for show.

These days, yes, many are. But religion is for churches, not general
conversation.
--
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:pd6jn19irm3qtlel4sjr0fas1m33q66u2b@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 01:09:18 GMT, "George"
> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>>news:hu6in1tmpg2utlnev60ntqgpedi0gfd9pt@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:58:45 GMT, "George"
>>> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>>>>news:9p4in15hqh2gog2hd6n8546ar83tk8svq0@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:57:10 GMT, "George"
>>>>> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>Huh?  You mean to tell me that Brits arwe allowed to speak freely
>>>>>>about
>>>>>>their religious affiliations,
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course they are. Though they will probably find the room emptying
>>>>> of other people once they start talking about religion.
>>>>
>>>>Do they also file out of a room when asked the question in a survey?
>>>
>>> Quite possibly. While scanning the horizon for prowling Jehovah's
>>> Witnesses and Mormons.
>>
>>How sad, since they are the easiest of religious denominations to deal
>>with.  When one knocks on your door, you simply politely tell them that
>>you
>>are Jewish (even if you are not), and close the door.  You'll never see
>>them again.
>
> Exactly. Or you tell them you are CofE. Which is where we came in.

Pardon my ignorance, but what, exactly is CofE?

>
>>>>>>or are otherwise not inclined to say what
>>>>>>those affiliations are for fear of being accused of having religious
>>>>>>affiliations?  Your response makes no sense, Art.
>>>>>
>>>>> "So, are you religious?" is a question like "do you have double
>>>>> glazing/a timeshare?". It is generally a conversation best avoided.
>>>>
>>>>Why?  Do you find your religion embarrassing?
>>>
>>> Not wanting to get cornered by a "salesman".
>>>
>>> Essentially, religion is a private and personal thing here, not a
>>> public thing.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK
>>
>>Really?  I take it that all those churches you guys have are just for
>>show.
>
> These days, yes, many are. But religion is for churches, not general
> conversation.
> --
> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

But then, we are talking about a survey, not general conversation.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:49:29 +0000, Peter Duncanson
<mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:41:34 +0000, guv <guv69@msn.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:01:21 GMT, Robin T Cox <nomail@nomail.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Britons 'back Christian society'
>>>
>>>BBC News
>>>14 November 2005
>>>
>>>Most Britons describe themselves as Christian despite not attending church
>>>regularly, a BBC survey has found.
>>>
>>>The poll taken for BBC News 24's Faith Day examines how belief in
>>>religions is shaping British identity.
>>>
>>>More than two-thirds of the 1,019 respondents said they were Christian,
>>>but only 17% regularly went to church.
>>>
>>>Almost 75% of respondents said the UK should retain Christian values -
>>>including 69% of Jews, and nearly 50% of Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus.
>>
>>Does watching Star Wars and claiming the jedi faith count?
>
>Would that be Christian Jedi, Muslim Jedi, Hindu Jedi, ...?

Hmmm. Mock me you do.........



--
www.senaction.com

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:01:28 GMT, "George"
<george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:

>Pardon my ignorance, but what, exactly is CofE?

The Church of England, the established church in England.

"I see it as an elderly lady, who mutters away to herself in a corner,
ignored most of the time" was the previous Archbishop of Caterbury's
description in 1991.

--
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:npakn1pg2edsnnp4lkt91nlo8g28cnv1jf@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:01:28 GMT, "George"
> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>
>>Pardon my ignorance, but what, exactly is CofE?
>
> The Church of England, the established church in England.
>
> "I see it as an elderly lady, who mutters away to herself in a corner,
> ignored most of the time" was the previous Archbishop of Caterbury's
> description in 1991.
>
> --
> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

So once all the old ladies in England die, what then? Will CofE simply fade
away to be replaced by Islam?

George

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:06:54 GMT, "George"
<george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:

>
>"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>news:npakn1pg2edsnnp4lkt91nlo8g28cnv1jf@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:01:28 GMT, "George"
>> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Pardon my ignorance, but what, exactly is CofE?
>>
>> The Church of England, the established church in England.
>>
>> "I see it as an elderly lady, who mutters away to herself in a corner,
>> ignored most of the time" was the previous Archbishop of Caterbury's
>> description in 1991.
>>
>> --
>> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK
>
>So once all the old ladies in England die, what then?

I think the biggest group of active Anglicans is in Nigeria these
days.

> Will CofE simply fade away to be replaced by Islam?

Anyone who thinks Britain is likely to become Islamic has never been
in a town centre at pub kicking-out time on a Friday.
--
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:njrkn1toioji4uivktqu9ligra511lsdnj@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:06:54 GMT, "George"
> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Arthur Figgis" <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>>news:npakn1pg2edsnnp4lkt91nlo8g28cnv1jf@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:01:28 GMT, "George"
>>> <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Pardon my ignorance, but what, exactly is CofE?
>>>
>>> The Church of England, the established church in England.
>>>
>>> "I see it as an elderly lady, who mutters away to herself in a corner,
>>> ignored most of the time" was the previous Archbishop of Caterbury's
>>> description in 1991.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK
>>
>>So once all the old ladies in England die, what then?
>
> I think the biggest group of active Anglicans is in Nigeria these
> days.

So, are you suggesting that once the old ladies in England die, you will
import them from Nigeria, just to keep the faith going?

>> Will CofE simply fade away to be replaced by Islam?
>
> Anyone who thinks Britain is likely to become Islamic has never been
> in a town centre at pub kicking-out time on a Friday.
> --
> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

But then, the Islamofasicst haven't become the majority - yet.  You don't
honestly believe that what is happening in France is isolated, do you?