🚀 go-pugleaf

David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:
> Anyway, has anyone any recommendations for something that is Mac
> compatible - without lots of unstable drivers etc.

Any DV or mini-DV camera is Mac compatible without weird drivers.

Avoid Sony's MicroMV format, which is not iMovie compatible. (Not without
Ugly Hack(tm), anyway.)

--
Geek Made Easy - http://www.geekmadeeasy.com/
We're geeks so you don't have to be

David Glover wrote:

> David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Anyway, has anyone any recommendations for something that is Mac
>>compatible - without lots of unstable drivers etc.
>
>
> Any DV or mini-DV camera is Mac compatible without weird drivers.
>
> Avoid Sony's MicroMV format, which is not iMovie compatible. (Not without
> Ugly Hack(tm), anyway.)
>

Sony do seem to like dodgy formats don't they ?


--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

On 24/11/04 10:55 am, in article
41a468a2$0$11165$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk, "David Glover"
<usenet@davidglover.org> wrote:

> David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:
>> Anyway, has anyone any recommendations for something that is Mac
>> compatible - without lots of unstable drivers etc.
>
> Any DV or mini-DV camera is Mac compatible without weird drivers.

Nod. For bonus points, get a camera that has DV in as well as out.

> Avoid Sony's MicroMV format, which is not iMovie compatible. (Not without
> Ugly Hack(tm), anyway.)

Definite nod.

Cheers,

Chris

David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:
> Sony do seem to like dodgy formats don't they ?

To be fair, they do also make standard DV cameras that are very good - I
have one.

--
Geek Made Easy - http://www.geekmadeeasy.com/
We're geeks so you don't have to be

David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:

> Had a couple recommended by the gent in our local Jessops, the
> Panasonic, NVGS22 or the Cannon MV700.
>
> Any thoughts ladies and gents.

Depending on where you go you could get an MV750i[1] for about that
price! Better lens and other features too. I love the Canon models, but
then I am on my second and am slightly biased. No drivers needed (but
that should be the same for any firewire device on a Mac).

I went to Brum, Micro Anvika were advertising for £359 I think, but had
none in stock while I was there. I walked into Jessops across the way,
and they price matched after a quick 'phone call. Their normal price was
about £430ish then. This was about 2-3 months ago.

<cough - blatent advert> And if she wants a copy of Final Cut Pro
Express to use with it I have one available for a reasonable sum.

[1] Don't forget the i on the end or she won't be able to get edited
footage back onto the camera.

--
Antony
Pull the plug to reply.

David Glover wrote:
> David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Sony do seem to like dodgy formats don't they ?
>
>
> To be fair, they do also make standard DV cameras that are very good - I
> have one.
>
Why should I be fair ? All I asked for was a few recommendations.......

--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

Antony Lacey wrote:

> David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>Had a couple recommended by the gent in our local Jessops, the
>>Panasonic, NVGS22 or the Cannon MV700.
>>
>>Any thoughts ladies and gents.
>
>
> Depending on where you go you could get an MV750i[1] for about that
> price! Better lens and other features too. I love the Canon models, but
> then I am on my second and am slightly biased. No drivers needed (but
> that should be the same for any firewire device on a Mac).
>

So, it works well, does the job and you have no problems ? Does it have
DV in and out  ?

> I went to Brum, Micro Anvika were advertising for £359 I think, but had
> none in stock while I was there. I walked into Jessops across the way,
> and they price matched after a quick 'phone call. Their normal price was
> about £430ish then. This was about 2-3 months ago.
>
> <cough - blatent advert> And if she wants a copy of Final Cut Pro
> Express to use with it I have one available for a reasonable sum.
>
> [1] Don't forget the i on the end or she won't be able to get edited
> footage back onto the camera.
>

I guess it does then........

--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

Antony Lacey <allatsea@plug.drivers.org.uk> wrote:

> David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Had a couple recommended by the gent in our local Jessops, the
> > Panasonic, NVGS22 or the Cannon MV700.
> >
> > Any thoughts ladies and gents.
>
> Depending on where you go you could get an MV750i[1] for about that
> price! Better lens and other features too. I love the Canon models, but
> then I am on my second and am slightly biased. No drivers needed (but
> that should be the same for any firewire device on a Mac).
>
> I went to Brum, Micro Anvika were advertising for £359 I think, but had
> none in stock while I was there. I walked into Jessops across the way,
> and they price matched after a quick 'phone call. Their normal price was
> about £430ish then. This was about 2-3 months ago.

I brought a MV700i from Jessops about 3 weeks ago, after it was
recommended here*. Jessops matched an internet price, and it cost sub
£300. You will need  a firewire cable (6 to 4 pin iirc), as this isn't
supplied.

Very happy with the camera, very easy to use, and worked straight away
with the PowerBook. (10.3.4).

* Actually the MV700 was recommended, but the person said they would
have got the 700i if they had a second chance.

Simon.

Chris Ridd wrote
>> Any DV or mini-DV camera is Mac compatible without weird drivers.
>
> Nod. For bonus points, get a camera that has DV in as well as out.

The Sony do this, as well as 'pass-through' which means you can import into
the Mac directly from eg. a video recorder without having to record onto the
camcorder first, then play it back. Effectively you're using the camcorder as
an analogue-digital converter.

>
>> Avoid Sony's MicroMV format, which is not iMovie compatible. (Not without
>> Ugly Hack(tm), anyway.)
>
> Definite nod.

Yes. This is not a good format for Mac users. But as noted, the Sony DV
cameras are good. I have one, and it does all I need and more (the time-lapse
photography is astonishing).

Oh, and the correct place to buy: you hunt round on the Web, find the
cheapest you can, print out the advert and take it to Jessops. They will
match any price, and it's easy to take it back if anything goes wrong.

HTH

Martin S Taylor

In article <co1qd9$8gf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>,
 David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:

> Sony do seem to like dodgy formats don't they ?

So does Apple. Sony DVR-PC1 (or something like that - it's at home) has
worked fine for me for the last 4 years.

--

Sak Wathanasin
Network Analysis Limited
http://www.network-analysis.ltd.uk

David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:

> > Depending on where you go you could get an MV750i[1] for about that
> > price! Better lens and other features too. I love the Canon models, but
> > then I am on my second and am slightly biased. No drivers needed (but
> > that should be the same for any firewire device on a Mac).
>
> So, it works well, does the job and you have no problems ? Does it have
> DV in and out  ?

No problems at all - I use it with a G4 and a Powerbook, my son's nicked
my MV300i to use with his iMac and iMovie.

> > [1] Don't forget the i on the end or she won't be able to get edited
> > footage back onto the camera.
>
> I guess it does then........

Yep, that's the i on any of the Canon models, otherwise they're DV out
(from the camera) only - I can't think why you'd want one that does that
myself.

--
Antony
Pull the plug to reply.

Simon Higgs <devnull@higgs.me.uk> wrote:

> I brought a MV700i from Jessops about 3 weeks ago, after it was
> recommended here*. Jessops matched an internet price, and it cost sub
> £300. You will need  a firewire cable (6 to 4 pin iirc), as this isn't
> supplied.

I thought mine had come with the camera, then I remembered it came with
the G4. So yes, the cable is needed if you don't already have one.

> * Actually the MV700 was recommended, but the person said they would
> have got the 700i if they had a second chance.

I'd 100% recommend the i models - whichever one you end up buying.

I only wanted the 750i as I already had a 300i (an older model of the
700i), and wanted the extra features.

Good to see Jessops still matching internet prices though!

--
Antony
Pull the plug to reply.

Sak Wathanasin wrote:
> In article <co1qd9$8gf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>,
>  David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>Sony do seem to like dodgy formats don't they ?
>
>
> So does Apple. Sony DVR-PC1 (or something like that - it's at home) has
> worked fine for me for the last 4 years.
>

And it's compatible with most things ? I must admit, it's a Sony I'm
replacing. However when I bought it I meant to get the Panasonic. They
were out of stock and, well, it was shiny and I had cash and that was that.
The Sony worked really well until it fell off the banister rail at the
top of the stairs.............



--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

Martin S Taylor wrote:

> Chris Ridd wrote
>
>>>Any DV or mini-DV camera is Mac compatible without weird drivers.
>>Nod. For bonus points, get a camera that has DV in as well as out.
>
>
> The Sony do this, as well as 'pass-through' which means you can import into
> the Mac directly from eg. a video recorder without having to record onto the
> camcorder first, then play it back. Effectively you're using the camcorder as
> an analogue-digital converter.
>
Handy feature, something i'd wondered about but not gotten around to
investigating.
>
>>>Avoid Sony's MicroMV format, which is not iMovie compatible. (Not without
>>>Ugly Hack(tm), anyway.)
>>
>>Definite nod.
>
>
> Yes. This is not a good format for Mac users. But as noted, the Sony DV
> cameras are good. I have one, and it does all I need and more (the time-lapse
> photography is astonishing).
>
> Oh, and the correct place to buy: you hunt round on the Web, find the
> cheapest you can, print out the advert and take it to Jessops. They will
> match any price, and it's easy to take it back if anything goes wrong.
>
I must admit I quite like Jessops anyway.


--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

Simon Higgs wrote:
>
> I brought a MV700i from Jessops about 3 weeks ago, after it was
> recommended here*. Jessops matched an internet price, and it cost sub
> £300. You will need  a firewire cable (6 to 4 pin iirc), as this isn't
> supplied.
>
Presumably it's the camera with the 4 pin ?

> Very happy with the camera, very easy to use, and worked straight away
> with the PowerBook. (10.3.4).
>
> * Actually the MV700 was recommended, but the person said they would
> have got the 700i if they had a second chance.
>

Well, the 700 and 750 are on the list at the moment. Along with the
Panasonics, NVGS11 / 15 / 22, and the Sonys DCRHC14 / 18

Seems to be a toss up between the Canon & the Panasonic at the moment.

--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

Antony Lacey wrote:

>
>
> I'd 100% recommend the i models - whichever one you end up buying.
>
Agreed.

> I only wanted the 750i as I already had a 300i (an older model of the
> 700i), and wanted the extra features.
>
Not sure the features would be used but it would be nice to have them.

> Good to see Jessops still matching internet prices though!
>
It is indeed.

Also nice to get some advice. I did look at uk.rec.video it seems that
they ignore every question that means giving an opinion on a camera and
prefer to discus 'how to's' Bit of a waste of space for anyone looking
for information.


--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

On 24/11/04 6:42 pm, in article co2kma$a49$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk, "David
Kennedy" <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:

> Presumably it's the camera with the 4 pin ?

Yes.

Cheers,

Chris

David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:

> > I only wanted the 750i as I already had a 300i (an older model of the
> > 700i), and wanted the extra features.
> >
> Not sure the features would be used but it would be nice to have them.

The one thing that made all the difference for me was importing analogue
material - I had soem very old VHS tapes of the family when young, and
wanted to put them onto DVD.

As A2D converters are around the £200 mark, having it built in to a
£350ish camcorder made a lot of sense. But if you have no plans to use
this feature then it may not make as much sense to have the 750i.

> Also nice to get some advice. I did look at uk.rec.video it seems that
> they ignore every question that means giving an opinion on a camera and
> prefer to discus 'how to's' Bit of a waste of space for anyone looking
> for information.

I read it only for a short time - we're much more user friendly in here
- and sometimes a little less impartial. Or should I say you're likely
to get enough people expressing different views! :-)

My only suggestion is (if you can) go somewhere (Jessops again probably)
and have a 'play' with the cameras you decide on. This can show up some
flaws - positioning of controls etc. - which are not apparent from
pictures and brochures.

This is why I initially decided on the Canon - never regretted it for
one moment, I'm sure other makes are just as good, it just boiled down
to the Canon "feeling" better for me.

Pre DV camcorders, I always had Panasonic models. Again, just because
they felt right.

--
Antony
Pull the plug to reply.

Antony Lacey wrote:

> David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>>I only wanted the 750i as I already had a 300i (an older model of the
>>>700i), and wanted the extra features.
>>>
>>
>>Not sure the features would be used but it would be nice to have them.
>
>
> The one thing that made all the difference for me was importing analogue
> material - I had soem very old VHS tapes of the family when young, and
> wanted to put them onto DVD.
>
> As A2D converters are around the £200 mark, having it built in to a
> £350ish camcorder made a lot of sense. But if you have no plans to use
> this feature then it may not make as much sense to have the 750i.
>

349 on ebuyer at the moment. Seems a good deal compared with - say - the
Sony HC20 or 30 or the Pana NVGS33
>
>>Also nice to get some advice. I did look at uk.rec.video it seems that
>>they ignore every question that means giving an opinion on a camera and
>>prefer to discus 'how to's' Bit of a waste of space for anyone looking
>>for information.
>
> I read it only for a short time - we're much more user friendly in here
> - and sometimes a little less impartial. Or should I say you're likely
> to get enough people expressing different views! :-)
>
> My only suggestion is (if you can) go somewhere (Jessops again probably)
> and have a 'play' with the cameras you decide on. This can show up some
> flaws - positioning of controls etc. - which are not apparent from
> pictures and brochures.
>

I had an initial look at the weekend. But, not knowing the options or
features it was a bit limited. Now I've got some more info I'll head
back there once I have some time.

> This is why I initially decided on the Canon - never regretted it for
> one moment, I'm sure other makes are just as good, it just boiled down
> to the Canon "feeling" better for me.
>
> Pre DV camcorders, I always had Panasonic models. Again, just because
> they felt right.
>



--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:

> My daughter tells me that she needs a camcorder or her university
> studies will be in ruins.........
>
> Anyway, has anyone any recommendations for something that is Mac
> compatible - without lots of unstable drivers etc. - as she wants to be
> able to import clips / stills and not too expensive ? I was thinking
> around the 350 quid mark.
>
> Had a couple recommended by the gent in our local Jessops, the
> Panasonic, NVGS22 or the Cannon MV700.
>
> Any thoughts ladies and gents.

The JVC GRD-23 comes well recommended [1] at the cheapo end but lacks DV
and analogue in, but at £210 quite cheap, as JVC seemed well respected
at that end I picked the now discontinued GRD200 and have been happy so
far, however the USB connection for pics doesn't work, but the memory
card is removable so you could use a card reader for that [2]. Got mine
from <http://www.digital-point.co.uk/> couple of days for delivery, uk
spec, cheap.

Have a look at the JVC-GRD53 comes in cheaper than the Panasonic, adds
DV and analogue in, bigger zoom, I'd go for that or the Canon 700i
(which also adds DV 7 analogue in), all are sub £300, although sites
such as the above suddenly bring kit you thought out of budget in range
[3]

[1] Various award winner
[2] I don't use the camera-memory card function so I don't care.
[3] I'd looked at mine at £600 in Comet then found they had it for £370
which wasn't much more than the model below I was going to get so
thought sod it.
--
Jon B
real email to usenet at jonbradbury dot com

Jon B wrote:
>
> The JVC GRD-23 comes well recommended [1] at the cheapo end but lacks DV
> and analogue in, but at £210 quite cheap, as JVC seemed well respected
> at that end I picked the now discontinued GRD200 and have been happy so
> far, however the USB connection for pics doesn't work, but the memory
> card is removable so you could use a card reader for that [2]. Got mine
> from <http://www.digital-point.co.uk/> couple of days for delivery, uk
> spec, cheap.
>
Jessops didn't have much JVC stock when I was in there so I've not paid
much attention to them. But, you're right, the features are there.
What are they like with low[ish] light ? The Canon seems better speced
than the Sony or Pana. in that respect.

> Have a look at the JVC-GRD53 comes in cheaper than the Panasonic, adds
> DV and analogue in, bigger zoom, I'd go for that or the Canon 700i
> (which also adds DV 7 analogue in), all are sub £300, although sites
> such as the above suddenly bring kit you thought out of budget in range
> [3]
>
The GRD73 is listed at 349 on ebuyer, same price as the 750i

> [1] Various award winner
> [2] I don't use the camera-memory card function so I don't care.
> [3] I'd looked at mine at £600 in Comet then found they had it for £370
> which wasn't much more than the model below I was going to get so
> thought sod it.

Are there any sights which do comparative reviews on these things ? I
did a google yesterday but seemed only to find users reviews or US sites.



--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

Antony Lacey <allatsea@plug.drivers.org.uk> wrote:

> David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > I only wanted the 750i as I already had a 300i (an older model of the
> > > 700i), and wanted the extra features.
> > >
> > Not sure the features would be used but it would be nice to have them.
>
> The one thing that made all the difference for me was importing analogue
> material - I had soem very old VHS tapes of the family when young, and
> wanted to put them onto DVD.
>
> As A2D converters are around the £200 mark, having it built in to a
> £350ish camcorder made a lot of sense. But if you have no plans to use
> this feature then it may not make as much sense to have the 750i.
>
But as you can often get DV in models well within budget I'd suggest you
may as well get one. I never thought I'd need DV/analogue in, but have
found both quite handy lately, converted some old vids to DVD the other
weekend via mine, really impressed with the results.
--
Jon B
real email to usenet at jonbradbury dot com

David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:

> Jon B wrote:
> >
> > The JVC GRD-23 comes well recommended [1] at the cheapo end but lacks DV
> > and analogue in, but at £210 quite cheap, as JVC seemed well respected
> > at that end I picked the now discontinued GRD200 and have been happy so
> > far, however the USB connection for pics doesn't work, but the memory
> > card is removable so you could use a card reader for that [2]. Got mine
> > from <http://www.digital-point.co.uk/> couple of days for delivery, uk
> > spec, cheap.
> >
> Jessops didn't have much JVC stock when I was in there so I've not paid
> much attention to them. But, you're right, the features are there.
> What are they like with low[ish] light ? The Canon seems better speced
> than the Sony or Pana. in that respect.
>
In lowish they aren't too bad, but from what I read [1] they were all
pretty poor in this end of the market. The MacUser review I read said
the Canon 700i, The JVC GRD23 and a Panasonic cheapy which I can't
remember now were all as bad as each other in low light.

> > Have a look at the JVC-GRD53 comes in cheaper than the Panasonic, adds
> > DV and analogue in, bigger zoom, I'd go for that or the Canon 700i
> > (which also adds DV 7 analogue in), all are sub £300, although sites
> > such as the above suddenly bring kit you thought out of budget in range
> > [3]
> >
> The GRD73 is listed at 349 on ebuyer, same price as the 750i
>
£320 at Digital Point for the GRD73, the GRD53 was £279 at the same
shop, £300 for the 700i

> > [1] Various award winner
> > [2] I don't use the camera-memory card function so I don't care.
> > [3] I'd looked at mine at £600 in Comet then found they had it for £370
> > which wasn't much more than the model below I was going to get so
> > thought sod it.
>
> Are there any sights which do comparative reviews on these things ? I
> did a google yesterday but seemed only to find users reviews or US sites.

MacUser did a review around May time, which is where most of my ref
comes from, couldn't find it online when I last looked but there is a
summary here

<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=1ggi2xr.1ebxj9qe0wits
N%25jon.bradburyusenetspam%40btinternet.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3De
n%26lr%3D%26q%3Dbella%2Bjon%2Bgrd%26btnG%3DSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Duk.
comp.sys.mac>

It wasn't too pleasant about the low end Panasonic

[1] The MacUser review around May
--
Jon B
real email to usenet at jonbradbury dot com

Jon B wrote:

>
> But as you can often get DV in models well within budget I'd suggest you
> may as well get one. I never thought I'd need DV/analogue in, but have
> found both quite handy lately, converted some old vids to DVD the other
> weekend via mine, really impressed with the results.

My thoughts exactly once I heard about it.

--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

Jon B wrote:

> David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>Are there any sights which do comparative reviews on these things ? I
>>did a google yesterday but seemed only to find users reviews or US sites.
>
>
> MacUser did a review around May time, which is where most of my ref
> comes from, couldn't find it online when I last looked but there is a
> summary here
>
> <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=1ggi2xr.1ebxj9qe0wits
> N%25jon.bradburyusenetspam%40btinternet.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3De
> n%26lr%3D%26q%3Dbella%2Bjon%2Bgrd%26btnG%3DSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Duk.
> comp.sys.mac>
>

I never even thought of MacUser etc.

Doh !

--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:

> > As A2D converters are around the £200 mark, having it built in to a
> > £350ish camcorder made a lot of sense. But if you have no plans to use
> > this feature then it may not make as much sense to have the 750i.
>
> 349 on ebuyer at the moment. Seems a good deal compared with - say - the
> Sony HC20 or 30 or the Pana NVGS33

That is a good price. A pound cheaper than I paid anyway! :-)

> > My only suggestion is (if you can) go somewhere (Jessops again probably)
> > and have a 'play' with the cameras you decide on. This can show up some
> > flaws - positioning of controls etc. - which are not apparent from
> > pictures and brochures.
>
> I had an initial look at the weekend. But, not knowing the options or
> features it was a bit limited. Now I've got some more info I'll head
> back there once I have some time.

That's a good point of course. If you don't know what you're looking
for, you don't always know the right questions to ask to find out.

Knowledge can be powerful indeed.

--
Antony
Pull the plug to reply.

Antony Lacey wrote:

>
> Knowledge can be powerful indeed.
>

Now all I have to do is figure out what to do with 'the knowledge'





--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

David Kennedy <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:

> > Knowledge can be powerful indeed.
>
> Now all I have to do is figure out what to do with 'the knowledge'

Buy one for your daughter, decide you like it yourself, then go looking
again! :-)

--
Antony
Pull the plug to reply.

In article <co57cd$q5e$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, David Kennedy
<davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:

> Antony Lacey wrote:
>
> >
> > Knowledge can be powerful indeed.
> >
>
> Now all I have to do is figure out what to do with 'the knowledge'

Drive a cab?

--
Sara

On 25/11/04 9:56 pm, in article
251120042156030923%sarakirk@blueyonder.co.uk, "Sara Kirk"
<sarakirk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <co57cd$q5e$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, David Kennedy
> <davidkennedy@no.spam.today.thanks.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Antony Lacey wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Knowledge can be powerful indeed.
>>>
>>
>> Now all I have to do is figure out what to do with 'the knowledge'
>
> Drive a cab?

Not this time of night.

Cheers,

Chris

Martin S Taylor <newsreply@hRyEpMnOoVtEiTsHm.cIo.uSk> wrote:

> Oh, and the correct place to buy: you hunt round on the Web, find the
> cheapest you can, print out the advert and take it to Jessops. They will
> match any price, and it's easy to take it back if anything goes wrong.

Good grief. Noted, very useful.


        -z-

--
My lozenge is a full earthy herbal lozenge incorporating a miscellanea
of weeds known for advancing sexual longing and performance, causing
an increase in sexual craving, a betterment in your volume and
execution, besides as increased energy and joy during sexual activeness.