🚀 go-pugleaf

Maxstor or Seagate sound fine.

Interesting how many articles/white papers are pushing one thing:
o Desktop S-ATA RAID-1 (mirror)
---- availability - and its outsourcement to the user :-)
o Desktop 2.5" 7200rpm (2008+)
---- rugged, reliable, fast, 4x the drive volume in one 3.5" place

I think the latter is more likely on blade/1U systems re density
and plain difficulty in getting enough airflow to hit >100W CPUs.


However, mirroring data - be it by RAID, replication, to a simple
24x7 low-power box in the corner, or a USB drive is a good idea.

HD magnetic coatings are designed for >10yr data retention, but a lot
of other factors come into it re actual realised longevity of the *drive*.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.stores.ebay.co.uk/panaflofan for fans, books & other items
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy.bradbury/panaflo.htm (Direct)

Steve <steveo40uk@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Yep, the new Samsung 80gb drive I bought on Friday afternoon, has
>survived little more than a day. I am very pissed off indeed! :(

>I asked about new hard drives a few threads up there ^ somewhere. If I
>have no problem swapping it for a replacement at the shop, should I go
>for a Maxtor or what? They also sell Excelstors, Hitachis, and Seagates.

Excelstor are best avoided, as are Hitachi, which I'm less than
convinced have got much better since the IBM fiasco a few years ago.

Maxtor have superb warranties and Seagate are generally good drives so
I'd go for one of those.

--
>iv< Paul >iv<

Steve <steveo40uk@yahoo.com> writes:

> Yep, the new Samsung 80gb drive I bought on Friday afternoon, has
> survived little more than a day. I am very pissed off indeed! :(

Probably just bad luck.

> I asked about new hard drives a few threads up there ^ somewhere. If
> I have no problem swapping it for a replacement at the shop, should
> I go for a Maxtor or what? They also sell Excelstors, Hitachis, and
> Seagates.

Maxtor and Seagate are big names; I'd go for one of those.  Or another
Samsung, for that matter (they don't have a bad reputation, do they?).

Get another Samsung its a fluke!


"TMack" <REMOVETHECAPStonymackin@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:c0mghq$18v3av$1@ID-67499.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Steve" <steveo40uk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c0mcie$174j1h$1@ID-140165.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Yep, the new Samsung 80gb drive I bought on Friday afternoon, has
> > survived little more than a day. I am very pissed off indeed! :(
> >
> > I asked about new hard drives a few threads up there ^ somewhere. If I
> > have no problem swapping it for a replacement at the shop, should I go
> > for a Maxtor or what? They also sell Excelstors, Hitachis, and Seagates.
>
> I think you have just been very unlucky.  Samsung HDs are usally regarded
as
> bulletproof - which is why they still offer 3 years warranty.  What
happened
> to it?  Personally I would just exchange it - it is very unlikely that you
> would have two fail in a row and the 3 year warranty is worth having.
>
> Tony
>
>

In article <c0mcie$174j1h$1@ID-140165.news.uni-berlin.de>, Steve
<steveo40uk@yahoo.com> writes
>Yep, the new Samsung 80gb drive I bought on Friday afternoon, has
>survived little more than a day. I am very pissed off indeed! :(
>
>I asked about new hard drives a few threads up there ^ somewhere. If I
>have no problem swapping it for a replacement at the shop, should I go
>for a Maxtor or what? They also sell Excelstors, Hitachis, and Seagates.

Ok, I just went through Ebuyer reviews of 80GB PATA drives from
Excelstor, Maxtor, Seagate and WD. Review counts do not include unrated
(question) posts. Failure counts do not include reviews where
description of the fault sounds more like user error or any cases where
only noise was reported. Only one failure is counted for each review
regardless of quantity specified. A post mentioning one dead drive out
of 20 is still a failure. Quantity of stars is ignored - many people
review at 4 or 5 stars despite having had a replacement.

                        reviews         failures        ratio
Excelstor ESJ660G       97              10              0.10
Excelstor ESJ680G       16              3               0.16
Maxtor 6Y080L0          48              16              0.33
Seagate ST380011A       121             6               0.05
WD800BB                 25              5               0.20
WD800JB                 27              2               0.07

The current Hitachi only has a couple of reviews so far. The previous
one had a failure count similar to the Maxtor, from memory. They don't
sell Samsungs.

Obviously the less-reviewed drives have weaker statistical significance
and there's bound to be some bias, but the Seagate is probably good and
the Maxtor is bad :-)

Strangely the Maxtor has the best warranty and the Seagate has one of
the worst.

Long-term reliability isn't really tested, as all these drive models are
fairly recent. It isn't necessarily related to short-term reliability.


--
John Jordan

"Dorothy Bradbury" <dorothy.bradbury@ntlworld.com> wrote:
[snip]
>HD magnetic coatings are designed for >10yr data retention, but a lot
>of other factors come into it re actual realised longevity of the *drive*.

Any idea how seriously should I take quoted 1,000,000+ hour MTBFs on
SCSI hard drives? That's over 100 years of continuous use, which just
seems an awful lot for a mechanical device. I'm amazed they can make a
motor and bearing which can spin at 15krpm for 100 years, let alone
drive heads and the rest.


Tim
--
Love is a travelator.

Excelstor's vary greatly due to the fact that they are re-conditioned
recertified drives
and can literally be originally made by anyone...
The last lot we used were recon' IBM 40gb's which have been (so far) problem
free.
Having said that, we had a bunch of ex-Conner 10gb's 18 months ago which
have
all but totally 'expired' shall we say........
Personally, I like the Seagate Barracuda's or Western Digital current
drives........
Though you can be 'unlucky' with ANY make/model let's not forget.
Lee

Steve,

I have 5 x Samsung 120GB drives.  I don't bother with any others at the
moment, although if I had to choose something different, it would be
Western Digital or Seagate.

My Samsung drives all run as fast as any other brand, more silently, and
come with a 3 year warranty, which I believe is the industry's best.

Don't be put off by one failure; however, the 120GB is only a little
more expensive than the 80GB, so stretch to that one.

Odie




Steve wrote:
>
> Yep, the new Samsung 80gb drive I bought on Friday afternoon, has
> survived little more than a day. I am very pissed off indeed! :(
>
> I asked about new hard drives a few threads up there ^ somewhere. If I
> have no problem swapping it for a replacement at the shop, should I go
> for a Maxtor or what? They also sell Excelstors, Hitachis, and Seagates.

In article <6ost2092ba08gq2t36mvugocnodtf8lkbu@4ax.com>, "Tim Auton"
tim.auton@uton.[groupSexWithoutTheY] says...
> "Dorothy Bradbury" <dorothy.bradbury@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> >HD magnetic coatings are designed for >10yr data retention, but a lot
> >of other factors come into it re actual realised longevity of the *drive*.
>
> Any idea how seriously should I take quoted 1,000,000+ hour MTBFs on
> SCSI hard drives? That's over 100 years of continuous use, which just
> seems an awful lot for a mechanical device. I'm amazed they can make a
> motor and bearing which can spin at 15krpm for 100 years, let alone
> drive heads and the rest.
>
Supposedly a 1,000,000 hour MTBF means that you can take 1000 new drives
and run them for 1000 hours before one of them fails[1].  That means you
have a 0.1% chance that a drive will fail in 42 days, which isn't as
impressive as running faultlessly for 114 years  :-)
At best it's a relative measure of reliability, but you have to wonder
how different models from different manufacturers seem to produce such
similar results.

[1] This doesn't mean that they actually _have_ run 1000 drives for 1000
hours without failure, or 500 drives for 2000 hours.  Statistical
methods can be used to derive MTBF based on the observed reliability of
the components of a system.  And we all know what they say about
statistics ...

Rob Morley wrote:
> In article <6ost2092ba08gq2t36mvugocnodtf8lkbu@4ax.com>, "Tim Auton"
> tim.auton@uton.[groupSexWithoutTheY] says...
>> "Dorothy Bradbury" <dorothy.bradbury@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> [snip]
>>> HD magnetic coatings are designed for >10yr data retention, but a
>>> lot of other factors come into it re actual realised longevity of
>>> the *drive*.
>>
>> Any idea how seriously should I take quoted 1,000,000+ hour MTBFs on
>> SCSI hard drives? That's over 100 years of continuous use, which just
>> seems an awful lot for a mechanical device. I'm amazed they can make
>> a motor and bearing which can spin at 15krpm for 100 years, let alone
>> drive heads and the rest.
>>
> Supposedly a 1,000,000 hour MTBF means that you can take 1000 new
> drives and run them for 1000 hours before one of them fails[1].  That
> means you have a 0.1% chance that a drive will fail in 42 days, which
> isn't as impressive as running faultlessly for 114 years  :-)
> At best it's a relative measure of reliability, but you have to wonder
> how different models from different manufacturers seem to produce such
> similar results.
>
> [1] This doesn't mean that they actually _have_ run 1000 drives for
> 1000 hours without failure, or 500 drives for 2000 hours.  Statistical
> methods can be used to derive MTBF based on the observed reliability
> of the components of a system.  And we all know what they say about
> statistics ...

Yup, 70% of them are made up on the spot.

Martin


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.588 / Virus Database: 372 - Release Date: 13/02/2004

In article <b4lu20pd90vfajvd7p49a5leea7fju8mj9@4ax.com>, "Angus
Rodgers" angus_prune@bigfoot.com says...
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:00:55 -0000, Rob Morley
> <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > And we all know what they say about statistics ...
>
> That there are lies, damned lies, statistics, and
> Government intelligence dossiers?
>
>
<Beavis and Butthead>
Hehehehe, hehehehe, he said "government" and "intelligence" in the same
sentence.  Hehehehe
</Beavis and Butthead>

> Steve wrote:
> >
> > Yep, the new Samsung 80gb drive I bought on Friday afternoon, has
> > survived little more than a day. I am very pissed off indeed! :(
> >
> > I asked about new hard drives a few threads up there ^ somewhere. If I
> > have no problem swapping it for a replacement at the shop, should I go
> > for a Maxtor or what? They also sell Excelstors, Hitachis, and Seagates.


From my own personal experience of Samsung drives. Those of the past.... I.E
capacity smaller than yours have not been very fast at all to the point
where I would not consider them on these grounds alone. I too have seen a
few failures but to be put into perspective they must have been 2 or 3 years
old. Although one would hope a longer living drive than this and indeed many
are still going strong 4 years on.

Samsung have had some surprisingly ( I say ) good reviews for their latter
era drives. Only time can tell whether the drives live upto the reviews.

I've just replaced an old 4.3GB Maxtor in a 66Mhz bus system due to hard
competition with the common garden snail with a WD400 5400rpm drive and
wow!!! Super silent (although the drive had only about 1.5GB of data on it!)
and quick. This is my first venture with the much rated WD series and seems
well earned in my view.

There is an excellent site you can visit for further info. Follow this
link... www.storagereview.com  Here the Samsung drive's are rated quite
highly in the reliabilty stakes.

Steve

Bitstring <6ost2092ba08gq2t36mvugocnodtf8lkbu@4ax.com>, from the
wonderful person Tim Auton <tim.auton@uton.[groupSexWithoutTheY]> said
>"Dorothy Bradbury" <dorothy.bradbury@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>[snip]
>>HD magnetic coatings are designed for >10yr data retention, but a lot
>>of other factors come into it re actual realised longevity of the *drive*.
>
>Any idea how seriously should I take quoted 1,000,000+ hour MTBFs on
>SCSI hard drives? That's over 100 years of continuous use, which just
>seems an awful lot for a mechanical device. I'm amazed they can make a
>motor and bearing which can spin at 15krpm for 100 years, let alone
>drive heads and the rest.

Ah, when they say 'MTBF' they actually mean 'reciprocal of failure
rate'.
i.e. 100 years isn't how long any drive will last .. but 1 in every 100
will fail each year (over whatever period they think you care about -
normally first 2-3 years of life).

This ignores 'infant mortality' during burn-in (i.e. ones that die right
out of the manufacturing line), and it ignores 'ones that die of old
age'. They could all fail at 10 years, and still have a 100Yr 'MTBF'.

--
GSV   Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

TMack wrote:

> I think you have just been very unlucky.

Thats the story of my life!

>Samsung HDs are usally regarded as
> bulletproof - which is why they still offer 3 years warranty.  What happened
> to it?

I was playing a game online, when my screen suddenly froze, and there
was no response from the keyboard or mouse. I reset, then I heard a few
clicks from the HD, and got a instruction to insert a system disk.
I've tried to boot it up a couple of times since, and now the system
halts at 'Detecting IDE drives'.
I went to Aria today and bought a Maxtor 120gb 8mb cache (�63), and will
be swapping the Samsung for another tomorrow at Planet Micro, where I
bought it.

Thanks to all for the replies.

"Martin" <martinthompson@scotland.org> wrote in message
news:zzIXb.5001$Y%6.603726@wards.force9.net...
> Rob Morley wrote:
> > In article <6ost2092ba08gq2t36mvugocnodtf8lkbu@4ax.com>, "Tim Auton"
> > tim.auton@uton.[groupSexWithoutTheY] says...
> >> "Dorothy Bradbury" <dorothy.bradbury@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >>> HD magnetic coatings are designed for >10yr data retention, but a
> >>> lot of other factors come into it re actual realised longevity of
> >>> the *drive*.
> >>
> >> Any idea how seriously should I take quoted 1,000,000+ hour MTBFs on
> >> SCSI hard drives? That's over 100 years of continuous use, which just
> >> seems an awful lot for a mechanical device. I'm amazed they can make
> >> a motor and bearing which can spin at 15krpm for 100 years, let alone
> >> drive heads and the rest.
> >>
> > Supposedly a 1,000,000 hour MTBF means that you can take 1000 new
> > drives and run them for 1000 hours before one of them fails[1].  That
> > means you have a 0.1% chance that a drive will fail in 42 days, which
> > isn't as impressive as running faultlessly for 114 years  :-)
> > At best it's a relative measure of reliability, but you have to wonder
> > how different models from different manufacturers seem to produce such
> > similar results.
> >
> > [1] This doesn't mean that they actually _have_ run 1000 drives for
> > 1000 hours without failure, or 500 drives for 2000 hours.  Statistical
> > methods can be used to derive MTBF based on the observed reliability
> > of the components of a system.  And we all know what they say about
> > statistics ...
>
> Yup, 70% of them are made up on the spot.
>
> Martin
>
>

47% you mean?  ;-)

"Angus Rodgers" <angus_prune@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:b4lu20pd90vfajvd7p49a5leea7fju8mj9@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:00:55 -0000, Rob Morley
> <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > And we all know what they say about statistics ...
>
> That there are lies, damned lies, statistics, and
> Government intelligence dossiers?
>

i read the last word as 'tossers'

heh

I have a Samsung as my primary drive and a seagate barracuda as my second -
Love them both, so quiet and so far no problems at all. I got the Samsung to
replace a 60 Gig IBM Drive and the noise difference is unbelievable, the IBM
was only 18 months old as well!


"Steve" <steveo40uk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0mcie$174j1h$1@ID-140165.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Yep, the new Samsung 80gb drive I bought on Friday afternoon, has
> survived little more than a day. I am very pissed off indeed! :(
>
> I asked about new hard drives a few threads up there ^ somewhere. If I
> have no problem swapping it for a replacement at the shop, should I go
> for a Maxtor or what? They also sell Excelstors, Hitachis, and Seagates.

Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| In article <b4lu20pd90vfajvd7p49a5leea7fju8mj9@4ax.com>, "Angus
| Rodgers" angus_prune@bigfoot.com says...
|| On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:00:55 -0000, Rob Morley
|| <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
||
||| And we all know what they say about statistics ...
||
|| That there are lies, damned lies, statistics, and
|| Government intelligence dossiers?
||
||
| <Beavis and Butthead>
| Hehehehe, hehehehe, he said "government" and "intelligence" in the
| same sentence.  Hehehehe
| </Beavis and Butthead>

'Government Intelligence' is what is known as an oxymoron.

In article <c17jal$7ag$1@titan.btinternet.com>, "Kevin Lawton"
kepla@btinternet.com says...
> Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> | In article <b4lu20pd90vfajvd7p49a5leea7fju8mj9@4ax.com>, "Angus
> | Rodgers" angus_prune@bigfoot.com says...
> || On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:00:55 -0000, Rob Morley
> || <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> ||
> ||| And we all know what they say about statistics ...
> ||
> || That there are lies, damned lies, statistics, and
> || Government intelligence dossiers?
> ||
> ||
> | <Beavis and Butthead>
> | Hehehehe, hehehehe, he said "government" and "intelligence" in the
> | same sentence.  Hehehehe
> | </Beavis and Butthead>
>
> 'Government Intelligence' is what is known as an oxymoron.
>
>
Who are you calling a poxy moron?