🚀 go-pugleaf

Georg Ragaz wrote:
>
> Some thoughts about the IRS Scientology connection.
>
> If you read the previous posts of the ARS Librarian and others then
> you know by now that the CST the corporation holding LRH's copyrights
> is actually not under control of Scientologists.
>
> Considering the fact that the IRS usually does not renounce to several
> hundred millions of dollars of potential income just like that one
> must ask oneself the serious question, what could have moved the IRS
> to give up on the several hundred or even billions of dollars of
> potential income just like that and given the CofS a tax free status.
> And this in the view of the fact that no country in the world that has
> any substantial Scientology activity within its borders has even
> remotely considered that the CofS is a bonafide religion eligible for
> tax free status!
>
> Why would the US government then grant tax free status and thus bury
> any hopes for a good chunk of money?

Meade Emory, the former IRS head who granted the exemption, *is not* the
United States government. The United States Supreme Court had not and to
this day has not recognized scientology as a church. To imply that the
whole United States folded to CoS, is bullshit. *I* am a US citizen and
*I* have not folded to the CoS and it will be a cold day in hell when I
do.

> The next question is thus, has Davey made a truce with the devil and
> sold out the CofS to the US-government, i.e. is the CofS indirectly
> government controlled? I have too little evidence for this, but there
> are some questions that remain unanswered.

Why not try getting some *before* sounding like a horses ass.
>
> And here comes the conspiracy theory.

Oh boy, here were go boys and girls of the ARSCC*.....
>
> If Davey sold out the CofS to the government then surely the
> government's main interest was not the money, i.e. the actual value of
> the LRH copyrights or any income created therefrom. As to my knowledge
> no government has ever resorted to such unusual means for creating
> income through the running of an unsuccessful cult or selling books
> from a cult leader. Collecting taxes and printing paper money is much
> easier than having to run a religious cult.

The gov't has so many other short comings and this is the best you could
do?
Try this on for size: Because the people at the IRS buckled[for whatever
reason], overstepped the powers of the IRS, and slammed the supreme
court in the teeth by granting the tax exemption, now, all that led up
to the exemption status being granted has to be investigated. The
biggest issue: religious persecution. Are the beliefs on trial? No, but
that must be asserted and proved in court so that the exemption can be
stripped from them. Oh and at the same time, they have a *whole*
frigging country that requires their time, energy and attention as well
as this 1 case. Protections are afforded by the Constitution to *all*
and for the supreme court to attack anyone/thing they *must* be able to
do so within the Constitution.

Why don't you try gathering the information that can be used against the
clams legally instead of issuing the far fetched conspiracy theories
against the country that also upholds your right to write your
conspiracy theories?
>
> Secondly, as it appears at this date is that the top leaders of the
> CofS are doing just about anything possible to accelerate a decay and
> become history as fast as possible. Their public statements or actions
> may try to prove the contrary but this is just the surface. Let's face
> it since about 20 years the CofS has made every possible PR or Legal
> error that can be made under the sun moon and stars and most of them
> even a completely untrained person in any of these fields would never
> even dream of doing.

That's the tech at work.
>
> Scientology at this day has such a negative taste that very few people
> dare to admit openly of being a Scientologist. Only the best reputed
> actors or artists dare to step forward with such a statement. To
> reestablish a good reputation for Scientology on a planetary basis is
> an almost impossible task by now. Even if the CofS would be reformed
> from within the public distrust would remain for years to come and
> actually there would not be enough resources to reestablish a better
> reputation.
>

You are attempting to use common sense and apply logic where none exist.

> Let's face it, the reputation of the CofS has been ruined and actually
> one could only master up some ex-Scientologists to take part in a
> reformed movement. The raw public would give it its cold shoulder
> until actual proof of betterment was visible and this would take
> several years with many good deeds, successes and continous media
> coverage. To turn around the media once your reputation has been
> destroyed is an almost impossible task as good deeds are hardly ever
> covered and are only spread through the word of mouth.

Yes, a point you are proving quite well on your own.
>
> Assuming that the above is right, then the question that remains is,
> why was the US government out to take over the CofS and then let it
> die slowly?

Like the US has nothing friggin better to do; "nah, screw the drug
cartels, to hell with saddam, piss on castro, welfare - fuck it,
medicare fraud out the window, were gonna take control of the Cos and
then were gonna slowly let it die. Yeah hey!!! Thats's the ticket." Heh,
this implies that anything and everything Americans have fought and died
for was for naught. Go buy a clue...
>
> My guestimate is that the ones in control of CST are out to suppress
> the technology. This is additionally confirmed by the librarians posts
> concerning the fact that the books don't have to be written entirely
> by LRH in order to bear the title "by L.Ron Hubbard", as this is just
> part of the title and no longer a statement of the source of the book.
> I wonder if anyone has already scanned through the new issue of "New
> Slant on Life" vs the original issue. Possibly you can find some
> little tiny alterations that appear minute in the first but are
> actually relevant. Maybe some of you have more specific  evidence to
> the fact that technology has been altered to a point of unworkability
> or even negative results.

God forbid *you* do the research yourself and ascertain any necessary
facts to prove your allegations. Go buy a fucking clue georg.

sandy
* it doesn't exist, so sue that.

> And last but not least I want to thank the ARS Librarian for her
> excellent job.
>
> George

--
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
[I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.]

Sandy Jamison wrote:
>
> Georg Ragaz wrote:
> >
> > Some thoughts about the IRS Scientology connection.
> >
> > If you read the previous posts of the ARS Librarian and others then
> > you know by now that the CST the corporation holding LRH's copyrights
> > is actually not under control of Scientologists.
> >
> > Considering the fact that the IRS usually does not renounce to several
> > hundred millions of dollars of potential income just like that one
> > must ask oneself the serious question, what could have moved the IRS
> > to give up on the several hundred or even billions of dollars of
> > potential income just like that and given the CofS a tax free status.
> > And this in the view of the fact that no country in the world that has
> > any substantial Scientology activity within its borders has even
> > remotely considered that the CofS is a bonafide religion eligible for
> > tax free status!
> >
> > Why would the US government then grant tax free status and thus bury
> > any hopes for a good chunk of money?
>
> Meade Emory, the former IRS head who granted the exemption, *is not* the
> United States government. The United States Supreme Court had not and to
> this day has not recognized scientology as a church. To imply that the
> whole United States folded to CoS, is bullshit. *I* am a US citizen and
> *I* have not folded to the CoS and it will be a cold day in hell when I
> do.
>
> > The next question is thus, has Davey made a truce with the devil and
> > sold out the CofS to the US-government, i.e. is the CofS indirectly
> > government controlled? I have too little evidence for this, but there
> > are some questions that remain unanswered.
>
> Why not try getting some *before* sounding like a horses ass.
> >
> > And here comes the conspiracy theory.
>
> Oh boy, here were go boys and girls of the ARSCC*.....
> >
> > If Davey sold out the CofS to the government then surely the
> > government's main interest was not the money, i.e. the actual value of
> > the LRH copyrights or any income created therefrom. As to my knowledge
> > no government has ever resorted to such unusual means for creating
> > income through the running of an unsuccessful cult or selling books
> > from a cult leader. Collecting taxes and printing paper money is much
> > easier than having to run a religious cult.
>
> The gov't has so many other short comings and this is the best you could
> do?
> Try this on for size: Because the people at the IRS buckled[for whatever
> reason], overstepped the powers of the IRS, and slammed the supreme
> court in the teeth by granting the tax exemption, now, all that led up
> to the exemption status being granted has to be investigated. The
> biggest issue: religious persecution. Are the beliefs on trial? No, but
> that must be asserted and proved in court so that the exemption can be
> stripped from them. Oh and at the same time, they have a *whole*
> frigging country that requires their time, energy and attention as well
> as this 1 case. Protections are afforded by the Constitution to *all*
> and for the supreme court to attack anyone/thing they *must* be able to
> do so within the Constitution.
>
> Why don't you try gathering the information that can be used against the
> clams legally instead of issuing the far fetched conspiracy theories
> against the country that also upholds your right to write your
> conspiracy theories?

Georg,

Actually, Georg's theory may not be all that far-fetched.

The IRS, prior to the secret deal that was worked out with Scientology,
had a long-standing viewpoint that Scientology did not qualify for 501
C-3 status.

The mountain of documents seized during the FBI 1977 raid of the GO
command center showed clear and convincing evidence of long-term
currency law violations, tax evasion, and hoarding of huge amounts of
cash in foreign bank accounts, controlled exclusively by Hubbard and his
wife. Many former Sea Org have posted accounts about their involvement
as international couriers and custodians of Hubbard's cash. That Hubbard
and his organization had engaged in widespread tax evasion and inurement
is crystal clear. The organization was little more than the alter ego of
Hubbard and he was ultimately responsible for all the back taxes...

Scientology's potential retroactive tax liability is tremendous. The
impact of a public disclosure of Hubbard's tax evasion and the back
taxes that the organization is reponsible for would be devastating.
There is no way possible that Scientology could pay the taxes that they
owe. The usual option available to the IRS to effect collection of the
tax debt would be foreclosure and seizure of the entire Scientology
infrastructure. This would be a tremendous PR problem, and it would
simply play into Scientology's conspiracy theory that the government had
designs on Hubbard's "tech", and our government doesn't want to be
responsible for running a "Church"..

Willis Carto indicated that a huge amount of derogatory information
about the IRS was channeled to OSA, over a long period of time. Tom
Marcellus apparently was an expiditor of this, and he worked with Carto
for over 10 years.

It is reasonably conceivable that Scientology may have entered into a
agreement with the IRS to pay back Hubbard's tax debts, and the tax
debts of the organization. A limited receivership of the Scientology
organization may have been a part of that deal, as well as the issuance
of a strictly enforced probational 501 C-3 status for the period while
they were making repayments of the tax levy. The installation of a wog
lawyer controlled organization, the "Church of Spiritual Technology" as
the senior organization in Scientology may have been part of this long
term solution. Meade Emory lists "resolution of tax controveries" as his
field of expertise on his Internet resume.

Over the years, Scientology filed well over 1,000 lawsuits against the
IRS and its employees. Their small army of "investigators"  had compiled
a mountain of files about violations of tax laws, bribery, and misc
criminal activities by indivdual IRS employees. The IRS has long been a
branch of our government that is somehow above the law. Scientology
exploited this public perception. Public disclosure of the IRS
corruption would have been very embarassing to the leadership of the
IRS, which changed every couple of years.

Perhaps a comprimise was reached  that Scientology would drop their
lawsuits and not go public with the intelligence they had collected on
the IRS, and that the IRS would not disclose the particulars of the
agreement and allow extremely liberal protocols that Scientologists
could use when claiming tax exemptions for Scientology goods and service
received, so as to assure that the IRS would eventually be able to
collect all taxes owed. Seizure and liquidation of Scientology's assets
to collect on the debt was not a viable option since Hubbard's works
were of little value outside of the organization. Scientology simply
inflated the prices for all goods and service, to cover the added
expenses of paying the back taxes for Hubbard and his organization.

So there you have it, ANOTHER conspiracy theory, and my humble Christmas
gift to Scientology and our frustrated tax collectors.

Seasons greetings to all, and Happy Birthday to the legendary Prince of
Peace, wherever he may be....

Joe

On Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:53:47 -0500, Sandy Jamison <flybrat@hom.net>
wrote:

>Meade Emory, the former IRS head who granted the exemption, *is not* the
>United States government. The United States Supreme Court had not and to
>this day has not recognized scientology as a church. To imply that the
>whole United States folded to CoS, is bullshit. *I* am a US citizen and
>*I* have not folded to the CoS and it will be a cold day in hell when I
>do.

Sandy,
The idea of the church being a corporation run by the federal
government is not only mine. Read the press release that was attached
to a post from the ARSCC librarian. It states there:

Quote:
 What role did Meade Emory�s inside-the-Beltway connections have on
the sudden, secret turn-around by IRS?
 Is it possible, as one observer has speculated, that all of
Scientology went into receivership to IRS, and is now being run--as a
corporation--by the federal government?
 Is that why the agreement is such a closely-held secret?
 All these questions still wait for answers. But the
previously-suppressed connection to IRS may provide a new place to
look for them.

George

Georg Ragaz wrote:
>
> On Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:53:47 -0500, Sandy Jamison <flybrat@hom.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Meade Emory, the former IRS head who granted the exemption, *is not* the
> >United States government. The United States Supreme Court had not and to
> >this day has not recognized scientology as a church. To imply that the
> >whole United States folded to CoS, is bullshit. *I* am a US citizen and
> >*I* have not folded to the CoS and it will be a cold day in hell when I
> >do.
>
> Sandy,
> The idea of the church being a corporation run by the federal
> government is not only mine. Read the press release that was attached
> to a post from the ARSCC librarian. It states there:

What you have provided does not address the issue for which I spoke. You
offered for public opinion speculations for which, as you admitted, have
no evidence. Instead, you offer an an attachment to a post by a non
existant organizations librarian.
Clearly, this is authored by someone who is clueless where Hubbard's
tech is concerned.
Have you read *how* the agreement is sealed? The tax analysts case has a
pretty good breakdown of how and what laws were utilized. See, I do my
research that's why I still contend that what you have given here is
still nothing but bull shit. If you didn't want opinions that don't
agree with yours, you should have considered that prior to posting.

sandy

>
> Quote:
>  What role did Meade Emory�s inside-the-Beltway connections have on
> the sudden, secret turn-around by IRS?
>  Is it possible, as one observer has speculated, that all of
> Scientology went into receivership to IRS, and is now being run--as a
> corporation--by the federal government?
>  Is that why the agreement is such a closely-held secret?
>  All these questions still wait for answers. But the
> previously-suppressed connection to IRS may provide a new place to
> look for them.
>
> George

--
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
[I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.]