🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <Dj6IjSA$tdB0...@primex.demon.co.uk>,
Perwesh Sharma  <kspe...@primex.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>You have a long way to go before you understand Hinduism.  Caste system
>is a natural phenomena.  There are only four castes;
>
>        Brahmins - the priestly class (educators, academics...)
>        Kshatriyas - the warrior class (army, police ...)
>        Vashya - the business class, the accountants, financiers ...
>        Shudra - the service class, working class



Fine...    Now tell me  that a Corrupt educator is indeed bad than a
honest janitor isn't it?  But not according to the Manuvadis.  They still
insist that if a Brahmins has touched a janitor he must take a bath and
purify himself again.


The wrong thing with casteism is to define which is good and which is bad.
If a Janitor is as proud of his ancestors as a Brahmin is and is not
getting ridiculed at then  I will say that there is no caste system.




>
>These divisions are natural and universal.  Look at Sikhism for example
>- it was created to rid society of caste system and what have you ended
>up with?  Rule by the priestly class.  Same is true of Islam and
>Christianity is no better (Pope still dictates).  So, Mr Gulla you
>cannot run away from this.
>
>Now, what is wrong with Hinduism is that those in power have exploited
>the system.  So, what I would say is that we need to cleanse the guilty





The major and huge difference is untouchability!  The caste is not a
wrong! untouchability is against nature.



The day a Brahmin starts teaching the people that real virtues are

Honesty, Hard Work  Good moral values, irrespective of caste, and the day
when Brahmin, Kshtariya, Vaisya, Shudra start eating with each other i
will say untouchability is gone.



Everybody wants to be proud of their ancestors.  I love to be proud of my
Kshtariya Warrior ancestors but not on the expense of a Baniya or a
Mazhabi.   I want them to be proud of their ancestors as much too.


If we all are      proud of our ancestors then i guarantee thant Casteism
will be gone so will untouchability.


BTW... Sikhism, Islkam, Christianity do not practice untouchability,
Hinduism do.   In Sikhism, a Jat can sit together with his Mazhabi friend
and eat or do work.  In Punjabi villages you can often see a Jutt sitting
at Brahmins Shop along with his  Mazhabi friends and eating.  I think the
Punjabi Brahmins are not that much untouchable, I know one Agnihotri in
Pittsburgh who recently migrated from Hoshiarpur and stayed with
Lubdana, Jutt  s
and Mazhabi friends.  For him this was no big deal at all.

Even in my immediate family I have several cousins who are not Jutts but
Ramgarhias, Lubanas, or Khatris.

I do not see anyt untouchability in practicesd in Sikhism since at
Gurudwara everbody cook and eat together.

Can't say same thing about Christianity and Islam .


Sandeep S Bajwa
sba...@fyi.net




>and not throw the baby with bath water.

Perwesh Sharma (kspe...@primex.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: You have a long way to go before you understand Hinduism.  Caste system
: is a natural phenomena.  There are only four castes;

:         Brahmins - the priestly class (educators, academics...)
:         Kshatriyas - the warrior class (army, police ...)
:         Vashya - the business class, the accountants, financiers ...
:         Shudra - the service class, working class


Really the things are so simple? You mean that Brahmins didnot poured
molten lead in shudras ears when they incidently heard words from Ramayan etc.
And why go so far. In Kashmir during dogra rule muslims were awarded capital
punishment for slaugthering a cow and punishment for pundits for killing a
muslim was one rupee.


: These divisions are natural and universal.  Look at Sikhism for example
: - it was created to rid society of caste system and what have you ended
: up with?  Rule by the priestly class.  Same is true of Islam and
: Christianity is no better (Pope still dictates).  So, Mr Gulla you
: cannot run away from this.

: Now, what is wrong with Hinduism is that those in power have exploited
: the system.  So, what I would say is that we need to cleanse the guilty
: and not throw the baby with bath water.

: Regards, Perwesh

: In article <8727294...@dejanews.com>, Gu...@mailexcite.com writes
: >Mo the Mohan , a hindu , wrote :
: >
: >        Hindus are very tolerant people. I know people always bring up
: >the
: >caste system , the equivalent of slavery of blacks in the West BUT as
: >soon as India gained independence after 1000 years of Muslim and
: >Christian domination -the high caste Hindu leaders like Nehru
: >abolished the caste system and instituted prison sentences for those
: >who discriminated on the basis of caste.
: >
: >++++++++
: >
: >So the cast system is abolished , sati is outlawed .
: >So mr. mo whats left in hindu cult ?
: >You mean Nehru and the type are ashamed of hinduism ,they shun it ?
: >
: >they changed it? thus they are traitors of their faith .
: >
: >I do not blame them though. Who would want to be
: >associated with a cult like this , which has  been
: >sending the sati women through "heavens gate " for
: >centuries.
: >                                               Regds.
: >
: >                                               Gulla
: >
: >
: >        There are some lunatics who still believe in it but at least
: >the
: >govt
: >does not terrorise the citizens , unlike Pakistan were the minorites -
: >Shias , Ahmadiyas, Hindus , Christians are inferior by LAW and cannot
: >hold high posts.
: >        In India the President elected by 95% of the country's
: >lawmakers
: >in a
: >SECRET ballot is a member of the lowest caste and all Hindus are very
: >proud of the fact.
: >        There is a widespread misconception that Hinduism is a passive
: >religion - accepting
: > injustice ( something Gandhi was responsible for presenting to the
: >West). Quite the opposite  !! There are two Hindu scriptures - the
: >Ramayana which is just a moral story and the far more significant
: >Bhagavad Geeta where God Krishna says 'Do your duty'. 'You must FIGHT
: >injustice' etc.
: >        There is a belief that nearly all Hindus hold that the
: >birthplaces
: >of
: >the Gods Rama , Krishna and Shiva were at Ayodhya , Mathura and Kashi
: >respectively. It is NO more illogical than the belief that the Kaba
: >was built by Abraham -who may never have got within a 1000 miles of
: >Mecca. Now if Hindus captured Mecca and put their idols in there and
: >the Muslims captured it back would they allow the Hindus to keep on
: >with the temple and build their mosque elsewhere ?? . In 1600 AD Babar
: >conquered northern Indian and built mosques on all these three holy
: >sites - the Hindus say by demolishing the ancient temples there.
: >        The majority of the Muslims in the world sympathise with the
: >Hindu
: >view , which is why there were no demonstrations anywhere when the
: >Babri mosque was demolished. These three sites are of no historical
: >significance to the Muslims - its merely to deny Hindus. 70 years ago
: >the Hindus went to court to try to get the sites back but the courts
: >are too scared as is the govt to rule on the matter and so it has
: >dragged on an on . It is the duty of Hindus they feel to rebuild these
: >temples at what they believe to be for hundreds of years to be  their
: >holiest sites. Ram , Krishna and Shiva may be mythological figures
: >like God and Abraham but this belief should be respected.
: >        There was a demonstration in this town which got out of hand
: >and
: >inspite of the Police firing and killing a dozen or so people , the
: >hundreds of thousands got through and demolished this crumbling
: >structure. How long are people supposed to wait for justice -another
: >1000 years ? I have been to the Mathura site - Krishna' s birthplace
: >and it is a disgrace. In Hindu majority  India there is a mosque on
: >top of it while the Hindus have a tiny cramped basement.
: >        What is the solution ?
: >1. Hindus should recognise the right of Muslims to these places -the
: >right of occupation by conquest.
: >2. Muslims should recognise the deep spiritual significance of these
: >places to the Hindus and offer to sell them at any reasonable value ,
: >well above market rates.
: >3. The Muslims should take this money and build magnificient new
: >mosques a mile down the road - much bigger ones to reflect their
: >growing needs of a rapidly expanding population.
: >4. Maybe they fear that other sites could be claimed. Does it matter ?
: >As long as Hindus give two or three times the price -they can replace
: >old crumbling structures with new ones. In any case Hindus should
: >declare that these three holy sites are all they feel entitled to.
: >5. Similarly the Hindus should sell the Bodhgaya temple to the
: >Buddhists . Imagine the kind of structure the world's Buddhists could
: >build where Lord Buddha attained enlightenment !
: >        The pseudo seculars who run India  feel passionately about the
: >religious  rights of all minorities but care nothing for the feelings
: >of the Hindus have allowed this dispute to posion relations for fifty
: >years. If the right of Muslims to them is recognised and they sell at
: >double or triple the market value and build great new mosques there
: >would be a tremendous feeling of peace and love  in the subcontinent.
: >
: >-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
: >      http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet

: --
: Perwesh Sharma