🚀 go-pugleaf

napurenon wrote:
> Paul Blay wrote:
>
>> "Tad Perry" wrote ...
>>
>>> This open letter is to commend you on your selfless work and
>>> wonderful labor
>>> of love. Few people would put so much effort into the sharing of such
>>> information without attempting to make a profit. It's a great thing
>>> you've
>>> done, and continue doing, and I am very fortunate and pleased to have
>>> this
>>> tool to use.
>>
>>
>>
>> A hearty 'Me too' from me.  Personally I'm most impressed by his
>> 'stick to it ness'.
>> I'm a butterfly when it comes to stuff I do with Japanese (well,
>> excepting watching
>> too much anime - but I don't think that really counts ;-).
>
>
> I too, would like to express my thanks to Jim. EDICT, the Tanaka corpus,
> Monash Nihongo FTP Archive, and Jim's Japanese Page have helped me
> immensely over the years, and I expect they will go on helping me in the
> future.
> I just hope I can now give a little back by suggesting new words for
> EDICT, and helping weed out the remaining errors in the Tanaka corpus.

Yup, me too: EDICT, and the various offshoots are one of the great
resources of the internet. Thanks Jim.

Dan

"Tad Perry" wrote ...
> This open letter is to commend you on your selfless work and wonderful labor
> of love. Few people would put so much effort into the sharing of such
> information without attempting to make a profit. It's a great thing you've
> done, and continue doing, and I am very fortunate and pleased to have this
> tool to use.

A hearty 'Me too' from me.  Personally I'm most impressed by his 'stick to it ness'.
I'm a butterfly when it comes to stuff I do with Japanese (well, excepting watching
too much anime - but I don't think that really counts ;-).

Paul Blay wrote:
> "Tad Perry" wrote ...
>
>> This open letter is to commend you on your selfless work and wonderful
>> labor
>> of love. Few people would put so much effort into the sharing of such
>> information without attempting to make a profit. It's a great thing
>> you've
>> done, and continue doing, and I am very fortunate and pleased to have
>> this
>> tool to use.
>
>
> A hearty 'Me too' from me.  Personally I'm most impressed by his 'stick
> to it ness'.
> I'm a butterfly when it comes to stuff I do with Japanese (well,
> excepting watching
> too much anime - but I don't think that really counts ;-).

I too, would like to express my thanks to Jim. EDICT, the Tanaka corpus,
Monash Nihongo FTP Archive, and Jim's Japanese Page have helped me
immensely over the years, and I expect they will go on helping me in the
future.
I just hope I can now give a little back by suggesting new words for
EDICT, and helping weed out the remaining errors in the Tanaka corpus.

My sincerest thanks Jim.

"Chris Kern" <chriskern99@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:i9h8u0tvn1qkiends8v45efjl8c4h2kv37@4ax.com...
> I might as well add my thanks too; EDICT has been an invaluable tool
> over the years, my studies would not have gone as easily without it.

If that's the direction this thread's going to take, then I might as well
join in! EDICT is a great piece of work, and I say that as both a Japanese
enthusiast and a Computer Scientists. Although the CS part of me prefers
JMDICT on a technical level, the simplicitly and no-nonsense style of EDICT
still appeals to me.

At the end of the coming semester, for the first time will I have an exam
which involves an unseen text where use of a dictionary is allowed. You may
have one guess which dictionary I'm going to use. ;)

--
Unforgiven

Dan Rempel wrote:

> napurenon wrote:
>
>> Paul Blay wrote:
>>
>>> "Tad Perry" wrote ...
>>>
>>>> This open letter is to commend you on your selfless work and
>>>> wonderful labor
>>>> of love. Few people would put so much effort into the sharing of such
>>>> information without attempting to make a profit. It's a great thing
>>>> you've
>>>> done, and continue doing, and I am very fortunate and pleased to have
>>>> this
>>>> tool to use.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A hearty 'Me too' from me.  Personally I'm most impressed by his
>>> 'stick to it ness'.
>>> I'm a butterfly when it comes to stuff I do with Japanese (well,
>>> excepting watching
>>> too much anime - but I don't think that really counts ;-).
>>
>>
>>
>> I too, would like to express my thanks to Jim. EDICT, the Tanaka corpus,
>> Monash Nihongo FTP Archive, and Jim's Japanese Page have helped me
>> immensely over the years, and I expect they will go on helping me in the
>> future.
>> I just hope I can now give a little back by suggesting new words for
>> EDICT, and helping weed out the remaining errors in the Tanaka corpus.
>
>
> Yup, me too: EDICT, and the various offshoots are one of the great
> resources of the internet. Thanks Jim.
>
> Dan

Hell, me too.

I might as well add my thanks too; EDICT has been an invaluable tool
over the years, my studies would not have gone as easily without it.

-Chris

necoandjeff wrote:
> Sean wrote:
> > Dan Rempel wrote:
> >
> >> napurenon wrote:
> >>
> >>> Paul Blay wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Tad Perry" wrote ...
> >>>>
> >>>>> This open letter is to commend you on your selfless work and
> >>>>> wonderful labor
> >>>>> of love. Few people would put so much effort into the sharing
of
> >>>>> such information without attempting to make a profit. It's a
> >>>>> great thing you've
> >>>>> done, and continue doing, and I am very fortunate and pleased
to
> >>>>> have this
> >>>>> tool to use.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> A hearty 'Me too' from me.  Personally I'm most impressed by his
> >>>> 'stick to it ness'.
> >>>> I'm a butterfly when it comes to stuff I do with Japanese (well,
> >>>> excepting watching
> >>>> too much anime - but I don't think that really counts ;-).
> >>>
> >>> I too, would like to express my thanks to Jim. EDICT, the Tanaka
> >>> corpus, Monash Nihongo FTP Archive, and Jim's Japanese Page have
> >>> helped me immensely over the years, and I expect they will go on
> >>> helping me in the future.
> >>> I just hope I can now give a little back by suggesting new words
for
> >>> EDICT, and helping weed out the remaining errors in the Tanaka
> >>> corpus.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yup, me too: EDICT, and the various offshoots are one of the great
> >> resources of the internet. Thanks Jim.
> >>
> >> Dan
> >
> > Hell, me too.
>
> This has reached that critical mass stage where people who remain
silent
> will be questioned as being ungrateful (which I certainly am not.)
THANKS
> JIM. YOU DA MAN!!! And I promise to try and contribute more than I
have in
> the past.

Crap, is it mandatory now?

I too am deeply, deeply grateful for Jim and his effort.  Having
WWWJDICT is like having a good friend there to support one's entry into
Japanese.  As well, when I've encountered really strange kanji uses or
words that not even my denshi-jisho can handle, WWWJDICT has ALWAYS
come through.  I don't think I'd be the manga reader I am today with
WWWJDICT and Jim.
I think we should all pitch in and buy him a melon or something. :-)

necoandjeff wrote:
> Sean wrote:
> > Dan Rempel wrote:
> >
> >> napurenon wrote:
> >>
> >>> Paul Blay wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Tad Perry" wrote ...
> >>>>
> >>>>> This open letter is to commend you on your selfless work and
> >>>>> wonderful labor
> >>>>> of love. Few people would put so much effort into the sharing
of
> >>>>> such information without attempting to make a profit. It's a
> >>>>> great thing you've
> >>>>> done, and continue doing, and I am very fortunate and pleased
to
> >>>>> have this
> >>>>> tool to use.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> A hearty 'Me too' from me.  Personally I'm most impressed by his
> >>>> 'stick to it ness'.
> >>>> I'm a butterfly when it comes to stuff I do with Japanese (well,
> >>>> excepting watching
> >>>> too much anime - but I don't think that really counts ;-).
> >>>
> >>> I too, would like to express my thanks to Jim. EDICT, the Tanaka
> >>> corpus, Monash Nihongo FTP Archive, and Jim's Japanese Page have
> >>> helped me immensely over the years, and I expect they will go on
> >>> helping me in the future.
> >>> I just hope I can now give a little back by suggesting new words
for
> >>> EDICT, and helping weed out the remaining errors in the Tanaka
> >>> corpus.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yup, me too: EDICT, and the various offshoots are one of the great
> >> resources of the internet. Thanks Jim.
> >>
> >> Dan
> >
> > Hell, me too.
>
> This has reached that critical mass stage where people who remain
silent
> will be questioned as being ungrateful (which I certainly am not.)
THANKS
> JIM. YOU DA MAN!!! And I promise to try and contribute more than I
have in
> the past.

Crap, is it mandatory now?

I too am deeply, deeply grateful for Jim and his effort.  Having
WWWJDICT is like having a good friend there to support one's entry into
Japanese.  As well, when I've encountered really strange kanji uses or
words that not even my denshi-jisho can handle, WWWJDICT has ALWAYS
come through.  I don't think I'd be the manga reader I am today with
WWWJDICT and Jim.
I think we should all pitch in and buy him a melon or something. :-)

Sean wrote:
> Dan Rempel wrote:
>
>> napurenon wrote:
>>
>>> Paul Blay wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Tad Perry" wrote ...
>>>>
>>>>> This open letter is to commend you on your selfless work and
>>>>> wonderful labor
>>>>> of love. Few people would put so much effort into the sharing of
>>>>> such information without attempting to make a profit. It's a
>>>>> great thing you've
>>>>> done, and continue doing, and I am very fortunate and pleased to
>>>>> have this
>>>>> tool to use.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A hearty 'Me too' from me.  Personally I'm most impressed by his
>>>> 'stick to it ness'.
>>>> I'm a butterfly when it comes to stuff I do with Japanese (well,
>>>> excepting watching
>>>> too much anime - but I don't think that really counts ;-).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I too, would like to express my thanks to Jim. EDICT, the Tanaka
>>> corpus, Monash Nihongo FTP Archive, and Jim's Japanese Page have
>>> helped me immensely over the years, and I expect they will go on
>>> helping me in the future.
>>> I just hope I can now give a little back by suggesting new words for
>>> EDICT, and helping weed out the remaining errors in the Tanaka
>>> corpus.
>>
>>
>> Yup, me too: EDICT, and the various offshoots are one of the great
>> resources of the internet. Thanks Jim.
>>
>> Dan
>
> Hell, me too.

This has reached that critical mass stage where people who remain silent
will be questioned as being ungrateful (which I certainly am not.) THANKS
JIM. YOU DA MAN!!! And I promise to try and contribute more than I have in
the past.

Jeff

Shez wrote:
> In the faraway land of sci.lang.japan, Kevin Wayne Williams
> <kww.nihongo@verizon.nut> said:
> >I, too, cannot convey the depths of my gratitude.
>
> I'm sorry but that's just not good enough! If you don't try harder to
> convey them, I'm afraid the Ingratitude Police will be paying you a
> visit!

I had a visit from them once.  They beat me up because I wasn't
grateful enough for the beating they gave me before!

It seems to me I heard somewhere that necoandjeff wrote in article
<zs6Fd.9716$wZ2.2618@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>:

>Sean wrote:
>> Dan Rempel wrote:

>>> napurenon wrote:

>>>> Paul Blay wrote:

>>>>> "Tad Perry" wrote ...

>>>>>> This open letter is to commend you on your selfless work and
>>>>>> wonderful labor
>>>>>> of love. Few people would put so much effort into the sharing of
>>>>>> such information without attempting to make a profit. It's a
>>>>>> great thing you've
>>>>>> done, and continue doing, and I am very fortunate and pleased to
>>>>>> have this
>>>>>> tool to use.

>>>>> A hearty 'Me too' from me.  Personally I'm most impressed by his
>>>>> 'stick to it ness'.
>>>>> I'm a butterfly when it comes to stuff I do with Japanese (well,
>>>>> excepting watching
>>>>> too much anime - but I don't think that really counts ;-).

>>>> I too, would like to express my thanks to Jim. EDICT, the Tanaka
>>>> corpus, Monash Nihongo FTP Archive, and Jim's Japanese Page have
>>>> helped me immensely over the years, and I expect they will go on
>>>> helping me in the future.
>>>> I just hope I can now give a little back by suggesting new words for
>>>> EDICT, and helping weed out the remaining errors in the Tanaka
>>>> corpus.

>>> Yup, me too: EDICT, and the various offshoots are one of the great
>>> resources of the internet. Thanks Jim.

>> Hell, me too.

>This has reached that critical mass stage where people who remain silent
>will be questioned as being ungrateful (which I certainly am not.) THANKS
>JIM. YOU DA MAN!!! And I promise to try and contribute more than I have in
>the past.

Now that's a convincing statement!  However, always the iconoclast I'll
thank Jim for his erudite, humorous, and world-wise contributions to
this group.  And I'll think of him when I use EDICT.
--
Don
Old age is when you start saying "I wish I knew now what I knew then."

Kevin Wayne Williams wrote:
>
> I, too, cannot convey the depths of my gratitude.
> KWW

I bet money would be acceptable.

John W.

Travers Naran wrote:

> necoandjeff wrote:
>
>>Sean wrote:
>>
>>>Dan Rempel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>napurenon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Paul Blay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Tad Perry" wrote ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This open letter is to commend you on your selfless work and
>>>>>>>wonderful labor
>>>>>>>of love. Few people would put so much effort into the sharing
>
> of
>
>>>>>>>such information without attempting to make a profit. It's a
>>>>>>>great thing you've
>>>>>>>done, and continue doing, and I am very fortunate and pleased
>
> to
>
>>>>>>>have this
>>>>>>>tool to use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A hearty 'Me too' from me.  Personally I'm most impressed by his
>>>>>>'stick to it ness'.
>>>>>>I'm a butterfly when it comes to stuff I do with Japanese (well,
>>>>>>excepting watching
>>>>>>too much anime - but I don't think that really counts ;-).
>>>>>
>>>>>I too, would like to express my thanks to Jim. EDICT, the Tanaka
>>>>>corpus, Monash Nihongo FTP Archive, and Jim's Japanese Page have
>>>>>helped me immensely over the years, and I expect they will go on
>>>>>helping me in the future.
>>>>>I just hope I can now give a little back by suggesting new words
>
> for
>
>>>>>EDICT, and helping weed out the remaining errors in the Tanaka
>>>>>corpus.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yup, me too: EDICT, and the various offshoots are one of the great
>>>>resources of the internet. Thanks Jim.
>>>>
>>>>Dan
>>>
>>>Hell, me too.
>>
>>This has reached that critical mass stage where people who remain
>
> silent
>
>>will be questioned as being ungrateful (which I certainly am not.)
>
> THANKS
>
>>JIM. YOU DA MAN!!! And I promise to try and contribute more than I
>
> have in
>
>>the past.
>
>
> Crap, is it mandatory now?
>
> I too am deeply, deeply grateful for Jim and his effort.
>
I, too, cannot convey the depths of my gratitude.
KWW

In the faraway land of sci.lang.japan, Kevin Wayne Williams
<kww.nihongo@verizon.nut> said:
>I, too, cannot convey the depths of my gratitude.

I'm sorry but that's just not good enough! If you don't try harder to
convey them, I'm afraid the Ingratitude Police will be paying you a
visit!

--
______________________________________________________

I'm sorry. The number you have reached is imaginary.
Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again
______________________________________________________
Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/
Reply-to address for email: mailreply AT xerez.demon.co.uk

necoandjeff wrote:

> This has reached that critical mass stage where people who remain silent
> will be questioned as being ungrateful (which I certainly am not.) THANKS
> JIM. YOU DA MAN!!! And I promise to try and contribute more than I have in
> the past.

I'm working on my "Elegy to Jim" right now.

I'll post it when it's ready.

Marc

Tad Perry <tadperry@comcast.net> dixit:
>Dear Jim,

Wow. I sneak back after a week or so at my Internet-free holiday
house doing very little, and find two threads with my name on them.

>I've been a translator for a very long time. Perhaps you even remember me
>from participation on sci.lang.japan in years past. I haven't been on this
>newsgroup for a long time, and, as a matter of fact, I became burnt out on
>translating and "went on hiatus" for the last two years.

>Recently, I have returned to accepting translations from clients and I
>happened upon WWWJDIC. Things have certainly come a long way since the
>text-based MS-DOS and Unix versions, haven't they?

I like to think so (or else I've been wasting a lot of time  8-)}  )

Seriously though, if one is into mucking around with dictionaries
and related systems, trying it through a WWW server is essential.
Since I am fortunate to have free access to a well-connected 
server, I have no cost-barrier (yet, at least) to doing that. I've
more or less given up on stand-alone dictionary clients, for a number of 
reasons. One is the platform issue - I'm in no position to build and
support things for Windows or Macs, and the other is update/support/
distribution. That's a chore, and for free software a thankless one.
A WWW server is instant gratification, and everyone is always using the 
latest release.

>This open letter is to commend you on your selfless work and wonderful labor
>of love. Few people would put so much effort into the sharing of such
>information without attempting to make a profit. It's a great thing you've
>done, and continue doing, and I am very fortunate and pleased to have this
>tool to use.

Coo, ta. And my thanks to all the others who said nice words. (Not to 
mention the checks/cheques...   8-)} )

>You are a shining example of what the Internet was supposed to be.

Weeellll... Maybe. Perhaps more an example of what the Internet has
facilitated. I've been driven a bit by a largish hobby which just
happens to operate in public in an area that is of reasonably wide
interest. If it had taken a different course, e.g. if instead I'd
built an online database on Bach cantatas (don't laugh, it may happen)
the interest would probably have been narrower.

It's also been a case of how someone can tap the resources  of a lot of
volunteers. In the early days of the EDICT file there were squillions of
people who as students had painstakingly keyed in glossaries and wordlists
and it was very interesting how may were willing to hand these over to
a public repository. It was really a project waiting to happen. Being
an editor of all this was/is quite a task, and as ever one wishes one
could have looked ahead a decade or so before charging in.

>If only all information of such value were as freely available as WWWJDIC
>is.

Yes, the Internet and in particular the WWW (I don't conflate the two)
has the potential to facilitate a huge amount of online data
accumulation and presentation.

I am particularly impressed by things like Wikipedia and Wiktionary.
I think they are developments well worth tracking.

While I'm pressing keys, I want to comment on a remark by Paul Blay
about my "keeping at" this task/hobby/project. I guess persistence *is*
something in this, and one way or another I have been plugging on for
12-13 years now. I have, however, been giving a lot of thought to the
"where now" question, both for the various dictionary files and slabs
of software, as well as for me. Before I fall off the twig I'd like to
see something running that provides a degree of continuity, if indeed it
is worth it. I'll probably post something more about this another time.

-- 
Jim Breen        http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
Computer Science & Software Engineering,
Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia 
$B%8%`!&%V%j!<%s(B@$B%b%J%7%eBg3X(B

jim_breen@hotmail.com wrote:

> If it had taken a different course, e.g. if instead I'd
> built an online database on Bach cantatas (don't laugh, it may happen)
> the interest would probably have been narrower.

I think someone has beaten you to it:

http://www.jsbach.org.

Jeff

necoandjeff wrote:
> jim_breen@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> If it had taken a different course, e.g. if instead I'd
>> built an online database on Bach cantatas (don't laugh, it may
>> happen) the interest would probably have been narrower.
>
> I think someone has beaten you to it:
>
> http://www.jsbach.org.

And as for lyrics, someone started this and petered out pretty quickly:

http://odur.let.rug.nl/Linguistics/diversen/bach/cantatas/

necoandjeff <spam@schrepfer.com> dixit:
>necoandjeff wrote:
>> jim_breen@hotmail.com wrote:
>> 
>>> If it had taken a different course, e.g. if instead I'd
>>> built an online database on Bach cantatas (don't laugh, it may
>>> happen) the interest would probably have been narrower.
>> 
>> I think someone has beaten you to it:
>> 
>> http://www.jsbach.org.

Um. Not really.

>And as for lyrics, someone started this and petered out pretty quickly:

>http://odur.let.rug.nl/Linguistics/diversen/bach/cantatas/

Lyrics! The mind boggles. (I guess it's what you expect these days
when CD-playing software calls the tracks "songs".)

-- 
Jim Breen        http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
Computer Science & Software Engineering,
Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia 
$B%8%`!&%V%j!<%s(B@$B%b%J%7%eBg3X(B

jim_breen@hotmail.com wrote:
> necoandjeff <spam@schrepfer.com> dixit:
>> necoandjeff wrote:
>>> jim_breen@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> If it had taken a different course, e.g. if instead I'd
>>>> built an online database on Bach cantatas (don't laugh, it may
>>>> happen) the interest would probably have been narrower.
>>>
>>> I think someone has beaten you to it:
>>>
>>> http://www.jsbach.org.
>
> Um. Not really.

Really, what did you have in mind?

>> And as for lyrics, someone started this and petered out pretty
>> quickly:
>
>> http://odur.let.rug.nl/Linguistics/diversen/bach/cantatas/
>
> Lyrics! The mind boggles. (I guess it's what you expect these days
> when CD-playing software calls the tracks "songs".)

Believe me, I hesitated before referring to them as lyrics. But what *would*
you call them?

Jeff

necoandjeff <spam@schrepfer.com> dixit:
>jim_breen@hotmail.com wrote:
>> necoandjeff <spam@schrepfer.com> dixit:
>>> necoandjeff wrote:
>>>> jim_breen@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> If it had taken a different course, e.g. if instead I'd
>>>>> built an online database on Bach cantatas (don't laugh, it may
>>>>> happen) the interest would probably have been narrower.
>>>> I think someone has beaten you to it:
>>>> http://www.jsbach.org.
>>
>> Um. Not really.

>Really, what did you have in mind?

Well, that page is about Bach in general, and the page on the cantatas it
has linked is only limited and about 6 years old. I was thinking of
an information source about all 200+ of them: texts, librettist, date of
composition, voices, instrumentation, location of manuscript, recordings,
etc. etc. I have a battered and much annotated copy of Alec Robertson's
"The Church Cantatas" which covers some of this.

>>> And as for lyrics, someone started this and petered out pretty
>>> quickly:
>>
>>> http://odur.let.rug.nl/Linguistics/diversen/bach/cantatas/
>>
>> Lyrics! The mind boggles. (I guess it's what you expect these days
>> when CD-playing software calls the tracks "songs".)

>Believe me, I hesitated before referring to them as lyrics. But what *would*
>you call them?

For cantatas you'd say "texts". For operas and most oratorios the term
is "librettos" (libretti to some). For musical comedies/light operas the
term is/was the "book", although in some cases "book" just meant the words
of the songs, so you'd see "book and words by ....". Rogers wrote the 
music and Hammerstein the "book".

Book/libretto mean the same, of course, and refer to the fact that the
text was available as a small book (for sale at the theatre). These days
sub/surtitles have killed that little market off.

AFAICT "lyrics" really is only used for relatively recent songs. It may well
be used also in musical comedy these days. I don't pay attention to anything
much after Sondheim and Bernstein in that area.

-- 
Jim Breen        http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
Computer Science & Software Engineering,
Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia 
$B%8%`!&%V%j!<%s(B@$B%b%J%7%eBg3X(B

For the cantatas I recommend:

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/


Sincerely,

Jan Hanford
http://www.jsbach.org/


jim_breen@hotmail.com wrote:
> necoandjeff <spam@schrepfer.com> dixit:
> >jim_breen@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> necoandjeff <spam@schrepfer.com> dixit:
> >>> necoandjeff wrote:
> >>>> jim_breen@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> If it had taken a different course, e.g. if instead I'd
> >>>>> built an online database on Bach cantatas (don't laugh, it may
> >>>>> happen) the interest would probably have been narrower.
> >>>> I think someone has beaten you to it:
> >>>> http://www.jsbach.org.
> >>
> >> Um. Not really.
>
> >Really, what did you have in mind?
>
> Well, that page is about Bach in general, and the page on the
cantatas it
> has linked is only limited and about 6 years old. I was thinking of
> an information source about all 200+ of them: texts, librettist, date
of
> composition, voices, instrumentation, location of manuscript,
recordings,
> etc. etc. I have a battered and much annotated copy of Alec
Robertson's
> "The Church Cantatas" which covers some of this.
>
> >>> And as for lyrics, someone started this and petered out pretty
> >>> quickly:
> >>
> >>> http://odur.let.rug.nl/Linguistics/diversen/bach/cantatas/
> >>
> >> Lyrics! The mind boggles. (I guess it's what you expect these days
> >> when CD-playing software calls the tracks "songs".)
>
> >Believe me, I hesitated before referring to them as lyrics. But what
*would*
> >you call them?
>
> For cantatas you'd say "texts". For operas and most oratorios the
term
> is "librettos" (libretti to some). For musical comedies/light operas
the
> term is/was the "book", although in some cases "book" just meant the
words
> of the songs, so you'd see "book and words by ....". Rogers wrote the

> music and Hammerstein the "book".
>
> Book/libretto mean the same, of course, and refer to the fact that
the
> text was available as a small book (for sale at the theatre). These
days
> sub/surtitles have killed that little market off.
>
> AFAICT "lyrics" really is only used for relatively recent songs. It
may well
> be used also in musical comedy these days. I don't pay attention to
anything
> much after Sondheim and Bernstein in that area.
>
> --
> Jim Breen        http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
> Computer Science & Software Engineering,
> Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia
> $B%8%`!&%V%j!<%s(B@$B%b%J%7%eBg3X(B

For the cantatas I recommend:

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/

Sincerely,

Jan Hanford
http://www.jsbach.org/

jim_br...@hotmail.com wrote:

- Hide quoted text -

> necoandjeff <s...@schrepfer.com> dixit:
> >jim_br...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> necoandjeff <s...@schrepfer.com> dixit:
> >>> necoandjeff wrote:
> >>>> jim_br...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> If it had taken a different course, e.g. if instead I'd
> >>>>> built an online database on Bach cantatas (don't laugh, it may
> >>>>> happen) the interest would probably have been narrower.
> >>>> I think someone has beaten you to it:
> >>>> http://www.jsbach.org.

> >> Um. Not really.

> >Really, what did you have in mind?

> Well, that page is about Bach in general, and the page on the
cantatas it
> has linked is only limited and about 6 years old. I was thinking of
> an information source about all 200+ of them: texts, librettist, date
of
> composition, voices, instrumentation, location of manuscript,
recordings,
> etc. etc. I have a battered and much annotated copy of Alec
Robertson's
> "The Church Cantatas" which covers some of this.

> >>> And as for lyrics, someone started this and petered out pretty
> >>> quickly:

> >>> http://odur.let.rug.nl/Linguistics/diversen/bach/cantatas/

> >> Lyrics! The mind boggles. (I guess it's what you expect these days
> >> when CD-playing software calls the tracks "songs".)

> >Believe me, I hesitated before referring to them as lyrics. But what
*would*
> >you call them?

> For cantatas you'd say "texts". For operas and most oratorios the
term
> is "librettos" (libretti to some). For musical comedies/light operas
the
> term is/was the "book", although in some cases "book" just meant the
words
> of the songs, so you'd see "book and words by ....". Rogers wrote the
> music and Hammerstein the "book".

> Book/libretto mean the same, of course, and refer to the fact that
the
> text was available as a small book (for sale at the theatre). These
days
> sub/surtitles have killed that little market off.

> AFAICT "lyrics" really is only used for relatively recent songs. It
may well
> be used also in musical comedy these days. I don't pay attention to
anything
> much after Sondheim and Bernstein in that area.

> --
> Jim Breen        http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
> Computer Science & Software Engineering,
> Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia
> $B%8%`!&%V%j!<%s(B@$B%b%J%7%eBg3X(B

janford99 <janford@yahoo.com> dixit:
>For the cantatas I recommend:

>http://www.bach-cantatas.com/

Excellent. Thank you.

-- 
Jim Breen        http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
Computer Science & Software Engineering,
Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia 
$B%8%`!&%V%j!<%s(B@$B%b%J%7%eBg3X(B

Tad Perry wrote:
> Dear Jim,
> You are a shining example of what the Internet was supposed to be.
>
> If only all information of such value were as freely available as WWWJDIC
> is.
>
let me add that what makes jim breens dictionary project so remarkable
is not just wwwjdic, but edict/kanjidic too.

that he not only provides a web-based interface to a dictionary,
but also the RAW information...the data...

and that's soo nice...

maybe only to a programmer like me, but having the edict dictionary as a
textfile opens nearly-infinite possibilites for me..

for example:
i use heisig's book to learn kanji. if i have a webpage with a kanji
that i don't understand, i can simply search kanjidix.txt for the kanji,
take the heisig-number, and find the kanji immediately in the heisig-book.

or...yesterday i calculated how much would i have to study from the
heisig-book (remembering the kanji), to cover all the jlpt4 kanji
(not good btw. some of the kanji in jlpt4 are above-2000 in heisig's book ;)

these kinds of tasks would be impossible without having the actual data....
and imho that makes this dictionary project so wonderful.

gabor

"Gabor Farkas" <gabor@z10n.net> wrote in message news:35k4sdF4o5b9gU1@individual.net...
> Tad Perry wrote:
> > Dear Jim,
> > You are a shining example of what the Internet was supposed to be.
> > If only all information of such value were as freely available as WWWJDIC
> > is.
> let me add that what makes jim breens dictionary project so remarkable
> is not just wwwjdic, but edict/kanjidic too.
> that he not only provides a web-based interface to a dictionary,
> but also the RAW information...the data...
> and that's soo nice...
> maybe only to a programmer like me, but having the edict dictionary as a
> textfile opens nearly-infinite possibilites for me..

Yes, I want to echo these sentiments.  wwwjdict is very useful
but for long term significance, i think e/jmdict and the other data
files are more important -- they enable much more aggregate
development than a single person on one project can ever hope
to do.

I put jmdict and the other files into (yet another) Access database
and it has become my primary dictionary.  (I live in the boonies
where fast internet is still not available).  It has all the capabilities
of wwwjdict and lets me do many kinds of searchs and retrievals
that are impossible with any other tools available to me.  It supplies
info to a (yet another) flashcard app for example.

I hope that jmdict et.al. never get dropped or pushed to the back
burner in order to concentrate resources on wwwjdict.

Stuart McGraw <smcg4191@frii.rimoovthistoreply.com> dixit:
>I hope that jmdict et.al. never get dropped or pushed to the back
>burner in order to concentrate resources on wwwjdict.

I guess my goal is to move "jmdict et.al." in the direction of a more open
multi-person project, and keep WWWJDIC as my personal toy.

The former would be an epic in itself. While I am impressed at the quality
that Wikipedia is turning out, and the way that the initial xenophobic
article on kanji eventually got fixed, the thought of opening up
JMdict/EDICT to uncontrolled edits sends a shiver or two down my spine.
On the basis of the submissions I get, we'd have $B$m$&$K$s(B "corrected"
to $B$m$K$s(B within seconds.

-- 
Jim Breen        http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
Computer Science & Software Engineering,
Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia 
$B%8%`!&%V%j!<%s(B@$B%b%J%7%eBg3X(B

<jim_breen@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:35b261F4c00vkU1@individual.net...
> Tad Perry <tadperry@comcast.net> dixit:
> >Dear Jim,
>
> Wow. I sneak back after a week or so at my Internet-free holiday
> house doing very little, and find two threads with my name on them.
>
> >I've been a translator for a very long time. Perhaps you even remember me
> >from participation on sci.lang.japan in years past. I haven't been on
this
> >newsgroup for a long time, and, as a matter of fact, I became burnt out
on
> >translating and "went on hiatus" for the last two years.
>
> >Recently, I have returned to accepting translations from clients and I
> >happened upon WWWJDIC. Things have certainly come a long way since the
> >text-based MS-DOS and Unix versions, haven't they?
>
> I like to think so (or else I've been wasting a lot of time  8-)}  )
>
> Seriously though, if one is into mucking around with dictionaries
> and related systems, trying it through a WWW server is essential.
> Since I am fortunate to have free access to a well-connected
> server, I have no cost-barrier (yet, at least) to doing that. I've
> more or less given up on stand-alone dictionary clients, for a number of
> reasons. One is the platform issue - I'm in no position to build and
> support things for Windows or Macs, and the other is update/support/
> distribution. That's a chore, and for free software a thankless one.
> A WWW server is instant gratification, and everyone is always using the
> latest release.
>
> >This open letter is to commend you on your selfless work and wonderful
labor
> >of love. Few people would put so much effort into the sharing of such
> >information without attempting to make a profit. It's a great thing
you've
> >done, and continue doing, and I am very fortunate and pleased to have
this
> >tool to use.
>
> Coo, ta. And my thanks to all the others who said nice words. (Not to
> mention the checks/cheques...   8-)} )
>
> >You are a shining example of what the Internet was supposed to be.
>
> Weeellll... Maybe. Perhaps more an example of what the Internet has
> facilitated. I've been driven a bit by a largish hobby which just
> happens to operate in public in an area that is of reasonably wide
> interest. If it had taken a different course, e.g. if instead I'd
> built an online database on Bach cantatas (don't laugh, it may happen)
> the interest would probably have been narrower.
>
> It's also been a case of how someone can tap the resources  of a lot of
> volunteers. In the early days of the EDICT file there were squillions of
> people who as students had painstakingly keyed in glossaries and wordlists
> and it was very interesting how may were willing to hand these over to
> a public repository. It was really a project waiting to happen. Being
> an editor of all this was/is quite a task, and as ever one wishes one
> could have looked ahead a decade or so before charging in.
>
> >If only all information of such value were as freely available as WWWJDIC
> >is.
>
> Yes, the Internet and in particular the WWW (I don't conflate the two)
> has the potential to facilitate a huge amount of online data
> accumulation and presentation.
>
> I am particularly impressed by things like Wikipedia and Wiktionary.
> I think they are developments well worth tracking.
>
> While I'm pressing keys, I want to comment on a remark by Paul Blay
> about my "keeping at" this task/hobby/project. I guess persistence *is*
> something in this, and one way or another I have been plugging on for
> 12-13 years now. I have, however, been giving a lot of thought to the
> "where now" question, both for the various dictionary files and slabs
> of software, as well as for me. Before I fall off the twig I'd like to
> see something running that provides a degree of continuity, if indeed it
> is worth it. I'll probably post something more about this another time.

No need to be overly humble. The Internet, in general, did have a primary
goal of free sharing of academic information. With the advent of the www and
more commercial uses of the Internet we are constantly faced with "Enter
your credit card information here" in order to get information that people
don't *need* to try to own, but they try anyway. In the case of all your
work, the information is freely available to everyone. You haven't put up a
wall that only money can bring down to get to the good stuff. That was the
original intent of the Internet in my mind. Many grad students across the
world put work into building it up, and it's somewhat criminal (in my mind)
that they freely made the software that is the backbone for so much crass
money-making.

tvp

I would also like to sing Jim Breen's praises.  I first discovered EDICT
sometime around 1992 or 93, when it was a "new" project (began in 1991, it
was already huge as I recall).  A little bit later I figured out what
KANJIDIC was, and the power of combining the two files struck me at once.
At that time, the best implimentation I could find for my needs was the
Japanese WordMaster (now WordMage), which was clearly using the two files,
but pretended not to be - at least would not acknowledge using them.  So way
back then I started thinking how great it would be if there were stroke
order diagrams for KANJIDIC, and hence I made 150 diagrams for WordMaster
users.  When WordMaster ripped off my stroke order design without so much as
a whisper, much as they had ripped off EDICT and KANJIDIC, I stopped making
addtional diagrams and decided to build my own material - and make it
available on the web.

And so I built my first web site, Joyo96.org, which back then was
aol.com/Joyo96.  There my old stroke order diagrams found a new home.  Back
then I also used MacJDic, which was also an EDICT and KANJIDIC client.  And
Jeffry Friedyl's dictionary, which back then was better than WWWJDIC (but
sure isn't now).  Jim's work seemed to be the "Intel inside" of every tool I
was using (especially as I was freshly minted from college and strapped for
cash).  It was these early experiences that made me want to start building
my own tools that would have greater ability to use the information in these
files.  Something that would combine the recursive vocabulary study of
WordMaster/WordMage - but make the same capability available through the
web, and give me richer simultaneous information on Kanji meaning,
alternative orientation display, and greater cross-linking of vocabulary and
kanji, for unlimited exploration of EDICT/ KANJIDIC and other information I
would add in the middle of a study session without loosing my place.  So
when I finally did create Ice Mocha (kanjicafe.com), it was the culmination
of more than 12 years or so of dreaming about it, and learning to build
better and better KANJIDIC handling tools (like my Joyo96.org
Cross-Reference Tool which facilitates kanji study with multiple texts).

I think many people would have wanted to create an EDICT or a KANJIDIC back
in the early 90s.  I know I would have.  But it took somebody in the right
position, and with real tenacity to stick with the project for all these
years and keep it moving forward.  Study of the Japanese language the world
over has been greatly impacted by Jim's work.  You will not find anywhere
near the explosion of free tools based on a file like EDICT for any other
language.  It is my sincere hope that the Japanese government one day
recognizes Jim for these freely made efforts and his persistent dedication.
There are many people who were just out there exploring a slight interest in
Japanese who would never have persisted themselves if the free tools on the
Internet made possible by EDIC/KANJIDIC did not exist.

If anybody agrees with me, perhaps we can raise a petition to have Jim
awarded the Order of the Sacred Treasurer.  We could see how many signatures
we could collect and then forward the petition to all of the Japanese Consul
Generals near to the petitioners.  Of course, we have to wait until Jim is
70 before he can receive the award... so perhaps put this idea on the
back-burner.

in article 35k4sdF4o5b9gU1@individual.net, Gabor Farkas at gabor@z10n.net
wrote on 1/24/05 6:33 AM:

> what makes jim breens dictionary project so remarkable
> is not just wwwjdic, but edict/kanjidic too.
>
> that he not only provides a web-based interface to a dictionary,
> but also the RAW information...the data...
>
> and that's soo nice...
>
> maybe only to a programmer like me, but having the edict dictionary as a
> textfile opens nearly-infinite possibilites for me..
>
> for example:
> i use heisig's book to learn

In the faraway land of sci.lang.japan, James Rose <ceo@fat24.com> said:
> Jim's work seemed to be the "Intel inside" of every tool I
>was using

Come, come, he's not that evil really.

>Study of the Japanese language the world
>over has been greatly impacted by Jim's work.

I wouldn't go that far myself, although it can certainly be a nuisance
when a word isn't in EDICT.

>the explosion of free tools based on a file like EDICT

Careless words like that could have Jim shipped off to Guantanamo Bay
you know.... free tools that explode sound like some kind of cyber
terrorism to me.


>It is my sincere hope that the Japanese government one day
>recognizes Jim for these freely made efforts and his persistent dedication.

Given that the UK has already (allegedly) offered him a knighthood for
EDICT, I think he should hold out for being honoured by the Emperor,
anything less would be a snub.

I think Jim should be declared a "living treasure" myself, like the Noh
theatre actors. The WWWJDIC scripts should be given out to his disciples
and learned off by heart so they can pass on the sacred perl from
generation to generation, unaltered and perfect. Hackers everywhere will
flock to the recitations by masked lexicographers.

--
______________________________________________________

        'Twas midnight, and the UNIX hacks
        Did gyre and gimble in their cave
        All mimsy was the CS-VAX
        And Cory raths outgrabe.

        "Beware the software rot, my son!
        The faults that bite, the jobs that thrash!
        Beware the broken pipe, and shun
        The frumious system crash!"
______________________________________________________
Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/
Reply-to address for email: mailreply AT xerez.demon.co.uk

James Rose <ceo@fat24.com> dixit:
>I would also like to sing Jim Breen's praises.  I first discovered EDICT
>sometime around 1992 or 93, when it was a "new" project (began in 1991, it
>was already huge as I recall).  A little bit later I figured out what
>KANJIDIC was, and the power of combining the two files struck me at once.

A wry smile creeps onto my battered face. After all, KANJIDIC came into
existence purely for the purpose of combining a kanji database with
EDICT. KANJIDIC was first released as part of JDIC V2.0 (my original DOS
client). 

>At that time, the best implimentation I could find for my needs was the
>Japanese WordMaster (now WordMage), which was clearly using the two files,
>but pretended not to be - at least would not acknowledge using them.  

I exchanged a few terse emails with Michael over that.

>And so I built my first web site, Joyo96.org, which back then was
>aol.com/Joyo96.  There my old stroke order diagrams found a new home.  Back
>then I also used MacJDic, which was also an EDICT and KANJIDIC client.  And
>Jeffry Friedyl's dictionary, which back then was better than WWWJDIC (but
>sure isn't now).  

Are you sure that was in 96? I didn't start WWWJDIC until 1997.

>I think many people would have wanted to create an EDICT or a KANJIDIC back
>in the early 90s.  I know I would have.  But it took somebody in the right
>position, and with real tenacity to stick with the project for all these
>years and keep it moving forward.  

Aw shucks.

For me the question is: What now? What should and can be done?

I have some plans/proposals for the future path of JMdict/EDICT. What I'd
like to see is:

(a) it becoming a more "open" project, preferably with a panel of 
editors;

(b) the addition/edit process being online;

(c) automatic update & generation of new versions, with a shorter 
duty cycle than now, at least for online servers such as WWWJDIC
and Jeffrey's server.

I hope to be moving on this later in the year.

-- 
Jim Breen        http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
Computer Science & Software Engineering,
Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia 
$B%8%`!&%V%j!<%s(B@$B%b%J%7%eBg3X(B

I've been wrestling with the best way to handle sharing the stroke order
diagrams being created at KanjiCafe.com.  Would putative stroke order
diagramers embrace the following intellectual property restrictions:

a) You may use the stroke order diagrams created by the SODER tool on your
web site with the following restrictions:

a.1)  You may not remove or alter any attribution on the diagrams (either
KanjiCafe.com or Copyright KanjiCafe.com)

a.2)  You may not alter the diagrams, or use the diagrams to create new
materials such as animations.

a.3)  You may not use the diagrams in any other media (such as in a book)
other than on a web page.


There are other issues to deal with, such as how and when they will be
distributed, but for now I wondered if people could live with these
restrictions, and if it would encourage people to join in the effort.

Jim