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17 total messages Started by Harry Krause Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:09
OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99397
Author: Harry Krause
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:09
90 lines
4542 bytes
July 17, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Jesus and Jihad
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

If the latest in the "Left Behind" series of evangelical thrillers is to
be believed, Jesus will return to Earth, gather non-Christians to his
left and toss them into everlasting fire:

"Jesus merely raised one hand a few inches and a yawning chasm opened in
the earth, stretching far and wide enough to swallow all of them. They
tumbled in, howling and screeching, but their wailing was soon quashed
and all was silent when the earth closed itself again."

These are the best-selling novels for adults in the United States, and
they have sold more than 60 million copies worldwide. The latest is
"Glorious Appearing," which has Jesus returning to Earth to wipe all
non-Christians from the planet. It's disconcerting to find ethnic
cleansing celebrated as the height of piety.

If a Muslim were to write an Islamic version of "Glorious Appearing" and
publish it in Saudi Arabia, jubilantly describing a massacre of millions
of non-Muslims by God, we would have a fit. We have quite properly
linked the fundamentalist religious tracts of Islam with the intolerance
they nurture, and it's time to remove the motes from our own eyes.

In "Glorious Appearing," Jesus merely speaks and the bodies of the enemy
are ripped open. Christians have to drive carefully to avoid "hitting
splayed and filleted bodies of men and women and horses."

"The riders not thrown," the novel continues, "leaped from their horses
and tried to control them with the reins, but even as they struggled,
their own flesh dissolved, their eyes melted and their tongues
disintegrated. . . . Seconds later the same plague afflicted the horses,
their flesh and eyes and tongues melting away, leaving grotesque
skeletons standing, before they, too, rattled to the pavement."

One might have thought that Jesus would be more of an animal lover.

These scenes also raise an eschatological problem: Could devout
fundamentalists really enjoy paradise as their friends, relatives and
neighbors were heaved into hell?

As my Times colleague David Kirkpatrick noted in an article, this
portrayal of a bloody Second Coming reflects a shift in American
portrayals of Jesus, from a gentle Mister Rogers figure to a martial
messiah presiding over a sea of blood. Militant Christianity rises to
confront Militant Islam.

This matters in the real world, in the same way that fundamentalist
Islamic tracts in Saudi Arabia do. Each form of fundamentalism creates a
stark moral division between decent, pious types like oneself — and
infidels headed for hell.

No, I don't think the readers of "Glorious Appearing" will ram planes
into buildings. But we did imprison thousands of Muslims here and abroad
after 9/11, and ordinary Americans joined in the torture of prisoners at
Abu Ghraib in part because of a lack of empathy for the prisoners. It's
harder to feel empathy for such people if we regard them as infidels and
expect Jesus to dissolve their tongues and eyes any day now.

I had reservations about writing this column because I don't want to
mock anyone's religious beliefs, and millions of Americans think
"Glorious Appearing" describes God's will. Yet ultimately I think it's a
mistake to treat religion as a taboo, either in this country or in Saudi
Arabia.

I often write about religion precisely because faith has a vast impact
on society. Since I've praised the work that evangelicals do in the
third world (Christian aid groups are being particularly helpful in
Sudan, at a time when most of the world has done nothing about the
genocide there), I also feel a responsibility to protest intolerance at
home.

Should we really give intolerance a pass if it is rooted in religious faith?

Many American Christians once read the Bible to mean that
African-Americans were cursed as descendants of Noah's son Ham, and were
intended by God to be enslaved. In the 19th century, millions of
Americans sincerely accepted this Biblical justification for slavery as
God's word — but surely it would have been wrong to defer to such racist
nonsense simply because speaking out could have been perceived as
denigrating some people's religious faith.

People have the right to believe in a racist God, or a God who throws
millions of nonevangelicals into hell. I don't think we should ban books
that say that. But we should be embarrassed when our best-selling books
gleefully celebrate religious intolerance and violence against infidels.

That's not what America stands for, and I doubt that it's what God
stands for.
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99403
Author: JGS
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:34
12 lines
305 bytes
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:09:15 -0400, Harry Krause
<piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote:

>July 17, 2004
>OP-ED COLUMNIST
>Jesus and Jihad
>By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
>

Do you think we are too stupid to read the news that you have to foul
up this newsgroup with childish copy and pastes?

You are one real Dickweed!
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99404
Author: "John Doe"
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:38
17 lines
483 bytes
"JGS" <JGS@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:g16lf01ut0nifl9fji358mu26h062m6f3f@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:09:15 -0400, Harry Krause
> <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >July 17, 2004
> >OP-ED COLUMNIST
> >Jesus and Jihad
> >By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
> >
>
> Do you think we are too stupid to read the news that you have to foul
> up this newsgroup with childish copy and pastes?
>
> You are one real Dickweed!

You should have told it like it is, he is an @sshole Dickweed!
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99405
Author: Harry Krause
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:40
19 lines
529 bytes
JGS wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:09:15 -0400, Harry Krause
> <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>July 17, 2004
>>OP-ED COLUMNIST
>>Jesus and Jihad
>>By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
>>
>
> Do you think we are too stupid to read the news that you have to foul
> up this newsgroup with childish copy and pastes?
>
> You are one real Dickweed!

Yawn. You're just another of the anonymous, non-boating, right-wing
bunghols who pollute this newsgroup and usenet, and into the bozo-bin
you go.

Oh...and I doubt you read much of anything.
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99406
Author: Harry Krause
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:41
25 lines
717 bytes
John Doe wrote:

> "JGS" <JGS@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:g16lf01ut0nifl9fji358mu26h062m6f3f@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:09:15 -0400, Harry Krause
>> <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >July 17, 2004
>> >OP-ED COLUMNIST
>> >Jesus and Jihad
>> >By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
>> >
>>
>> Do you think we are too stupid to read the news that you have to foul
>> up this newsgroup with childish copy and pastes?
>>
>> You are one real Dickweed!
>
> You should have told it like it is, he is an @sshole Dickweed!
>
>
Yawn. You're just another of the anonymous, non-boating, right-wing
bunghols who pollute this newsgroup and usenet, and into the bozo-bin
you go.

Oh...and I doubt you read much of anything.
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99408
Author: JGS
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:50
30 lines
864 bytes
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:41:09 -0400, Harry Krause
<piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote:

>John Doe wrote:
>
>> "JGS" <JGS@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:g16lf01ut0nifl9fji358mu26h062m6f3f@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:09:15 -0400, Harry Krause
>>> <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >July 17, 2004
>>> >OP-ED COLUMNIST
>>> >Jesus and Jihad
>>> >By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
>>> >
>>>
>>> Do you think we are too stupid to read the news that you have to foul
>>> up this newsgroup with childish copy and pastes?
>>>
>>> You are one real Dickweed!
>>
>> You should have told it like it is, he is an @sshole Dickweed!
>>
>>
>Yawn. You're just another of the anonymous, non-boating, right-wing
>bunghols who pollute this newsgroup and usenet, and into the bozo-bin
>you go.
>
>Oh...and I doubt you read much of anything.

Not anything you waste our time with.
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99409
Author: "John Doe"
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:54
37 lines
1181 bytes
"JGS" <JGS@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:c17lf0t9lofpa391vn551ev28300evdnqh@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:41:09 -0400, Harry Krause
> <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >John Doe wrote:
> >
> >> "JGS" <JGS@nospam.com> wrote in message
> >> news:g16lf01ut0nifl9fji358mu26h062m6f3f@4ax.com...
> >>> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:09:15 -0400, Harry Krause
> >>> <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >July 17, 2004
> >>> >OP-ED COLUMNIST
> >>> >Jesus and Jihad
> >>> >By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> Do you think we are too stupid to read the news that you have to foul
> >>> up this newsgroup with childish copy and pastes?
> >>>
> >>> You are one real Dickweed!
> >>
> >> You should have told it like it is, he is an @sshole Dickweed!
> >>
> >>
> >Yawn. You're just another of the anonymous, non-boating, right-wing
> >bunghols who pollute this newsgroup and usenet, and into the bozo-bin
> >you go.
> >
> >Oh...and I doubt you read much of anything.
>
> Not anything you waste our time with.

Harry is in a state of "Troll Denial". Stomps Feet and shouts "I am not a
troll, I am not a troll, I am not a troll" as the hair on his warts grows
longer and longer.
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99410
Author: JGS
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:59
46 lines
1428 bytes
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:54:23 -0400, "John Doe" <nospam@giganews.com>
wrote:

>
>"JGS" <JGS@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:c17lf0t9lofpa391vn551ev28300evdnqh@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:41:09 -0400, Harry Krause
>> <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >John Doe wrote:
>> >
>> >> "JGS" <JGS@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:g16lf01ut0nifl9fji358mu26h062m6f3f@4ax.com...
>> >>> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:09:15 -0400, Harry Krause
>> >>> <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >July 17, 2004
>> >>> >OP-ED COLUMNIST
>> >>> >Jesus and Jihad
>> >>> >By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> Do you think we are too stupid to read the news that you have to foul
>> >>> up this newsgroup with childish copy and pastes?
>> >>>
>> >>> You are one real Dickweed!
>> >>
>> >> You should have told it like it is, he is an @sshole Dickweed!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Yawn. You're just another of the anonymous, non-boating, right-wing
>> >bunghols who pollute this newsgroup and usenet, and into the bozo-bin
>> >you go.
>> >
>> >Oh...and I doubt you read much of anything.
>>
>> Not anything you waste our time with.
>
>Harry is in a state of "Troll Denial". Stomps Feet and shouts "I am not a
>troll, I am not a troll, I am not a troll" as the hair on his warts grows
>longer and longer.
>

Hey, I feel honored. Killfiled by a troll. I love it.

Do you think he is green and the hair on his warts are 2 feet in
length?
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99411
Author: "John Doe"
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 12:03
55 lines
1736 bytes
"JGS" <JGS@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:pf7lf0drse6m1rnstrqdgltraksrlfr0l6@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:54:23 -0400, "John Doe" <nospam@giganews.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"JGS" <JGS@nospam.com> wrote in message
> >news:c17lf0t9lofpa391vn551ev28300evdnqh@4ax.com...
> >> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:41:09 -0400, Harry Krause
> >> <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >John Doe wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "JGS" <JGS@nospam.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:g16lf01ut0nifl9fji358mu26h062m6f3f@4ax.com...
> >> >>> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:09:15 -0400, Harry Krause
> >> >>> <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> >July 17, 2004
> >> >>> >OP-ED COLUMNIST
> >> >>> >Jesus and Jihad
> >> >>> >By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
> >> >>> >
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Do you think we are too stupid to read the news that you have to
foul
> >> >>> up this newsgroup with childish copy and pastes?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> You are one real Dickweed!
> >> >>
> >> >> You should have told it like it is, he is an @sshole Dickweed!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >Yawn. You're just another of the anonymous, non-boating, right-wing
> >> >bunghols who pollute this newsgroup and usenet, and into the bozo-bin
> >> >you go.
> >> >
> >> >Oh...and I doubt you read much of anything.
> >>
> >> Not anything you waste our time with.
> >
> >Harry is in a state of "Troll Denial". Stomps Feet and shouts "I am not a
> >troll, I am not a troll, I am not a troll" as the hair on his warts grows
> >longer and longer.
> >
>
> Hey, I feel honored. Killfiled by a troll. I love it.
>
> Do you think he is green and the hair on his warts are 2 feet in
> length?

I think he probably looks more like a Baboon's ass. You know what I mean,
ugly!!!!!

Maybe I'll get lucky and killfiled too!
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99421
Author: Harry Krause
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 13:27
43 lines
1656 bytes
Gould 0738 wrote:

>>People have the right to believe in a racist God, or a God who throws
>>millions of nonevangelicals into hell. I don't think we should ban books
>>that say that. But we should be embarrassed when our best-selling books
>>gleefully celebrate religious intolerance and violence against infidels.
>
> Naw. That statement implies that religious standards should be fair and
> objective.

Well, in a pluralistic society, we can hope they don't wish harm onto
others of differing beliefs.

These hate-filled Christian fundies really are no different than the
Taliban.


> Not so. Here in the west, it's perfectly reasonable to say that
> Jesus will utterly and physically destroy
> all but the most uptight, right-wing Christians but it's absolutely *not*
> permissable to suggest that Allah or his earthly agents might do the same to
> non-Muslims. I'll bet the standard is exactly reversed in countries with Muslim
> social structures. As it should be.

No, it shouldn't be.


>
> It's perfectly OK to believe whatever you want, whether or not it's fair or
> even if it doesn't seem to make sense.That's why it's religion, not law. And
> why the two usually mix so poorly.
>
> It's silly to hassle people about religion.
> Let 'em be.


The problem, Chuck, is that the fundies want to push their simple-minded
beliefs onto others, by fiat or by force.

Try living in NE Florida for a couple of years, avoiding their
tentacles. I worked very very hard for three years to get my polling
place *out* of one of their damned fundie churches and into a firehous
where it belonged. It took time, effort and some $$$ to make the effot
succeed.
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99413
Author: gould0738@aol.co
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 16:20
19 lines
995 bytes
>People have the right to believe in a racist God, or a God who throws
>millions of nonevangelicals into hell. I don't think we should ban books
>that say that. But we should be embarrassed when our best-selling books
>gleefully celebrate religious intolerance and violence against infidels.

Naw. That statement implies that religious standards should be fair and
objective.
Not so. Here in the west, it's perfectly reasonable to say that
Jesus will utterly and physically destroy
all but the most uptight, right-wing Christians but it's absolutely *not*
permissable to suggest that Allah or his earthly agents might do the same to
non-Muslims. I'll bet the standard is exactly reversed in countries with Muslim
social structures. As it should be.

It's perfectly OK to believe whatever you want, whether or not it's fair or
even if it doesn't seem to make sense.That's why it's religion, not law. And
why the two usually mix so poorly.

It's silly to hassle people about religion.
Let 'em be.
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99507
Author: "Joe"
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 03:44
11 lines
366 bytes
"Harry Krause" <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2lvq9cFhi85kU1@uni-berlin.de...

>
> These hate-filled Christian fundies really are no different than the
> Taliban.
>

There's a huge difference, shit for brains.
Those "hate filled" Christians believe that their God will destroy all the
non-believers, the fanatical Islamists want to do it themselves.
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99558
Author: atl_man2@yahoo.c
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 05:46
16 lines
709 bytes
"Joe" <Joe@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<XsHKc.13527$lz2.5911@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>...
> "Harry Krause" <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2lvq9cFhi85kU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> >
> > These hate-filled Christian fundies really are no different than the
> > Taliban.
> >
>
> There's a huge difference, shit for brains.
> Those "hate filled" Christians believe that their God will destroy all the
> non-believers, the fanatical Islamists want to do it themselves.

There you go, bowing up like you actually have bravado, when you are
hiding behind privacy.net. BUT, as everyone here knows, I've proven
you are too much a sissy to act like that in real life. You are
nothing short of pathetic.
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99845
Author: Harry Krause
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 06:25
16 lines
437 bytes
Joe wrote:

>
> By the way, don't take my ignoring of your childish threats as a sign of
> weakness.
> Your threats (and my non participation) can only work against you if you're
> ever
> stupid enough to confront me.



Joe is the Bush version of "grasshopper," in a new, non-literate form.
He's so tough, I'll bet all the girlie-guys are quivering...

--
A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush;
A vote for Bush is a vote for Apocalypse.
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99844
Author: "Joe"
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 06:28
33 lines
1244 bytes
"basskisser" <atl_man2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c74f111.0407190446.1caf1d98@posting.google.com...
> "Joe" <Joe@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:<XsHKc.13527$lz2.5911@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>...
> > "Harry Krause" <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:2lvq9cFhi85kU1@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > >
> > > These hate-filled Christian fundies really are no different than the
> > > Taliban.
> > >
> >
> > There's a huge difference, shit for brains.
> > Those "hate filled" Christians believe that their God will destroy all
the
> > non-believers, the fanatical Islamists want to do it themselves.
>
> There you go, bowing up like you actually have bravado, when you are
> hiding behind privacy.net. BUT, as everyone here knows, I've proven
> you are too much a sissy to act like that in real life. You are
> nothing short of pathetic.

I'm sorry for you that you exposed yourself as Kevin Noble of Snellville
Ga., but people
such as yourself are the perfect example as why everyone on the internet
should stay as
anonymous as possible.

By the way, don't take my ignoring of your childish threats as a sign of
weakness.
Your threats (and my non participation) can only work against you if you're
ever
stupid enough to confront me.
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99954
Author: atl_man2@yahoo.c
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:28
39 lines
1660 bytes
"Joe" <Joe@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<X1oLc.33280$lz2.30297@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>...
> "basskisser" <atl_man2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3c74f111.0407190446.1caf1d98@posting.google.com...
> > "Joe" <Joe@privacy.net> wrote in message
>  news:<XsHKc.13527$lz2.5911@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>...
> > > "Harry Krause" <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:2lvq9cFhi85kU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > These hate-filled Christian fundies really are no different than the
> > > > Taliban.
> > > >
> > >
> > > There's a huge difference, shit for brains.
> > > Those "hate filled" Christians believe that their God will destroy all
>  the
> > > non-believers, the fanatical Islamists want to do it themselves.
> >
> > There you go, bowing up like you actually have bravado, when you are
> > hiding behind privacy.net. BUT, as everyone here knows, I've proven
> > you are too much a sissy to act like that in real life. You are
> > nothing short of pathetic.
>
> I'm sorry for you that you exposed yourself as Kevin Noble of Snellville
> Ga., but people
> such as yourself are the perfect example as why everyone on the internet
> should stay as
> anonymous as possible.
>
> By the way, don't take my ignoring of your childish threats as a sign of
> weakness.
> Your threats (and my non participation) can only work against you if you're
> ever
> stupid enough to confront me.

Waaaaaa!!! What a sissy!! Oh, and....you are wrong....

Now, if you aren't a weak little punk, why not meet me the next time
I'm in Tampa, and you can call me all of the stupid, petty, asinine
names that you've called me here. Have the balls? Yes or no.
Re: OT: Religious beliefs of much of the Bush base
#99955
Author: atl_man2@yahoo.c
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:30
37 lines
1554 bytes
"Joe" <Joe@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<X1oLc.33280$lz2.30297@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>...
> "basskisser" <atl_man2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3c74f111.0407190446.1caf1d98@posting.google.com...
> > "Joe" <Joe@privacy.net> wrote in message
>  news:<XsHKc.13527$lz2.5911@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>...
> > > "Harry Krause" <piedtypecase@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:2lvq9cFhi85kU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > These hate-filled Christian fundies really are no different than the
> > > > Taliban.
> > > >
> > >
> > > There's a huge difference, shit for brains.
> > > Those "hate filled" Christians believe that their God will destroy all
>  the
> > > non-believers, the fanatical Islamists want to do it themselves.
> >
> > There you go, bowing up like you actually have bravado, when you are
> > hiding behind privacy.net. BUT, as everyone here knows, I've proven
> > you are too much a sissy to act like that in real life. You are
> > nothing short of pathetic.
>
> I'm sorry for you that you exposed yourself as Kevin Noble of Snellville
> Ga., but people
> such as yourself are the perfect example as why everyone on the internet
> should stay as
> anonymous as possible.
>
> By the way, don't take my ignoring of your childish threats as a sign of
> weakness.
> Your threats (and my non participation) can only work against you if you're
> ever
> stupid enough to confront me.

Stupid enough to confront you? You HIDE like a little sissy. IF that
were the case, you'd meet me. Remember, little boy, I come to your
town OFTEN.
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