🚀 go-pugleaf

Jacey Bedford wrote:
> As a hunt and peck typist I can commit words to screen quite quickly,
> but I'm finding that mostly I'm using the second finger on reach hand to
> hit most of the keys with occasional help from my right index finger.
>
> Just lately I'm noticing that the ends of my second fingers are feeling
> bruised and sore after a few days of relatively concentrated typing.
> This is a bit worrying as I'm only at revision stage at the moment but
> hope soon to be finishing that and starting on a new WIP first draft -
> usually involving concentrated bouts of several days of 5 - 10k words a
> day. (My writing style is all feast and famine but once I get going I'm
> pretty bum-on-the-chair, nose-to-the-keyboard.

The good news is that eventually the bruises should turn into
callouses.  At least, that's what they do when you're learning to play
guitar; I assume the same holds true for typing.

> Other than learning to touch-type (maybe a little ambitious and just
> another way of not starting the WIP) does anyone have any suggestions
> for protecting fingers from the ravages of over-enthusiastic creativity?
>
> Just out of interest I did get one of those learn to touch type
> programmes, but got frustrated because I was so slow.

I was lucky -- I took typing in high school as a way of avoiding the
more "serious" classes. Turns out it was the single most useful skill I
took away from high school.

Typing starts out feeling really weird, uncomfortable, and wrong.
Taking the class in school was good because it forced me to sit in a
chair and type for 50min. a day, Monday through Friday.  By the end of
the first or second week, it didn't feel uncomfortable any more, and I
started focusing on accuracy and speed. Now it feels like the most
natural thing in the world to me, and I can type around 85-95 wpm,
which isn't too bad.

Christopher B. Wright (ubersoft -at- gmail -dot- com)

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:36:18 +0000, Jacey Bedford wrote:

> As a hunt and peck typist I can commit words to screen quite quickly,
> but I'm finding that mostly I'm using the second finger on reach hand to
> hit most of the keys with occasional help from my right index finger.
>
> Just lately I'm noticing that the ends of my second fingers are feeling
> bruised and sore after a few days of relatively concentrated typing.


I've noticed that on some keyboards I really have to exert pressure and
push the keys down quite a way; also some have sharp edges on the keys.
Other keyboards have soft edged keys and need very little pressure or
depression.

Aren't there also keyboard covers that might soften the sharp edges (not
sure how they'd affect the pressure required).


R.L.
--
Hardware problems continue.  Reinstalling everything.

delamancha@alzum.com remove z

"Jacey Bedford" <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:oRZF1q6ioeZFFwC2@parkhead.demon.co.uk...

> Other than learning to touch-type (maybe a little ambitious and just
> another way of not starting the WIP) does anyone have any suggestions for
> protecting fingers from the ravages of over-enthusiastic creativity?
>
> Just out of interest I did get one of those learn to touch type
> programmes, but got frustrated because I was so slow.

Learning to touch-type is a good choice, IMO, but it does take a lot of time
and there is a substantial learning curve, and it's wildly frustrating for
folks who've been hunt-and-pecking for long enough to get fairly fast at it.
You just have to ramp down your expectations and think of it like learning a
completely new instrument, instead of like doing something the slow way when
you already have a way to do it faster.

If it's still too frustrating for words, try one of those speech-to-text
programs, like ViaVoice or Dragon Dictate (I think at least one of these is
out of business now, but I'm sure there are others around).  It takes about
a week to train it to useful levels and to become accustomed to using voice
commands, IME, if you work with it for a bit every day, but it has toy value
even during that period.  And once you have it trained, what you do is
switch off -- an hour of voice dictation, then an hour of typing, then back
to voice.  This avoids exchanging the stress on your fingers for stress on
your vocal chords.

If you don't like the speech-to-text thing, you can do the switching-off
thing with computer and pen/pencil, though that leaves you with the problem
of inputting/retyping the stuff you've handwritten, which may not be the
best use of your time.  Still, spending an extra 15 minutes or half hour out
of every two hours typing in some handwritten stuff is still tons better
than spending a week in hospital for RSI surgery, or even needing a couple
of months of physical therapy.

Patricia C. Wrede

Jacey, I never learned to touch type, but I can do pretty well with 3
fingers (middle, index, thumb). The best advice I can give is to take
frequent breaks from the typing. When I was in college I got a bad case
of tendonitis because I would go for hours and hours without breaks.
What I do is, write for 15 minutes then stop. Do something else like
read what you wrote, make notes on a notepad, make some coffee, go have
a smoke, whatever. Then after a couple minutes go back to writing. The
reason this is important is if you are stressing out your muscles and
tendons, this will give them a chance to cool down before damage sets
in. Since then, I have never had a problem with the old tendons.

As for the aching fingertips, that could be a different problem. You
should think about the keyboard you are using. If it is a laptop
computer, the keyboard could be too small, but you can usually plug any
USB keyboard in there as a substitute. I long for the days when
keyboards were big and clicky (made a satisfying click-clack sound).
Today's limp keys just don't do it for me.

--erik

Jacey Bedford wrote:
> That's the thing... I used to type for five or seven days straight with
> no ill effects (other than on my backside) but this sore finger thing is
> quite recent.

You know, Jacey, I just read this and I'm thinking you should talk to
your doctor. This kind of sensitivity could be due to problems with the
nerves. Your finger nerves actually go through the carpal tunnel and
when your tendons swell up from too much activity, it can squeeze them
and cause pain. The middle finger usually is the first one to be
noticed with that problem. The other possibility is that the nerves are
being pinched in your neck region, perhaps due to bad posture. Try
taking frequent breaks like I said, to give your tendons a chance to
cool down. And definitely talk to a doctor soon. Don't worry, you don't
have full-blown carpal tunnel syndrome, but left untreated it can
become a very serious condition.

--erik

On 23 Nov 2006 12:01:18 -0800, Christopher B. Wright wrote:

> I took typing in high school as a way of avoiding the
> more "serious" classes. Turns out it was the single most useful skill I
> took away from high school.

Sibling!

I don't really remember anything from high school. Of course that was forty
years ago. But typing class has paid dividends ever since.

Regards,
Ric

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Jacey Bedford wrote:

> I'm not sure they will because it feels like 'bone' bruises, i.e.
> pressure, not skin chafing.  I try and be light on the keys, but my
> first contact with typewrites were old manual ones which you had to
> hammer to get them to work - hence if I get too enthused, I can 'pound'
> the keys more than I should.
>
> Jacey

I also learned to type on hard-throw manuals and old electrics which are
  in no wise as light in the touch as modern computer keyboards.  I find
that the solution for me is a well-built keyboard with a softer feel.
The Apple keyboard is good for me as are old HPs and original PC 7s.  If
you can find one and stand the odd feel, there's a flexible, waterproof
keyboard out there for about $40 that's really easy on the hands and you
can drape it over a firm pillow or bolster to make it a better shape for
your natural hand position.

Another thing to consider: If the problem is not really fingertip
bruising, but aching at the joint, a therapeutic glove--sort of a
spandex thingy for people with arthritis--might help support the finger
joints so they take less jarring when you "strike" the keys and keep any
swelling in check.  Though if you're getting joint swelling, gentle
stretches and icing may be a good idea.  Maybe even a hand massage once
in a while.  You need to have happy hands.

--
Kat Richardson
Greywalker (Roc, 2006)
Website: http://www.katrichardson.com/
Bloggery: http://katrich.wordpress.com/

In message <oRZF1q6ioeZFFwC2@parkhead.demon.co.uk>, Jacey Bedford
<lookinsig@nospam.invalid> writes
>
>Other than learning to touch-type (maybe a little ambitious and just
>another way of not starting the WIP) does anyone have any suggestions
>for protecting fingers from the ravages of over-enthusiastic creativity?
>
>Just out of interest I did get one of those learn to touch type
>programmes, but got frustrated because I was so slow.
>
It's very very difficult to learn to touch type once one has evolved
one's own hunt-and-peck method because the typing speed will slow right
down.  However, if one can persevere, one will pick up speed again and,
ultimately, be much faster than before. I say "if one can persevere"
because I have never yet seen any adult do it. But I'm sure it is
possible.

I was fortunate; I learned to touch type straight off. That's because
way back when I was about 15, I read a How To book, from which I learned
that a writer would be expected to type up the manuscript. My mother
agreed to buy me a typewriter for Christmas, but she also bought me a
Pitmans typing tutor book and encouraged me to learn to type properly.
For some value of "properly". :-)

Helen
--
Helen, Gwynedd, Wales *** http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk
_A Legacy of War_, a fantasy murder mystery, now on the web at:
http://helenkenyon.livejournal.com/413.html

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:46:05 -0600, Ric Locke <warlocke@hyperusa.com>
wrote:

>On 23 Nov 2006 12:01:18 -0800, Christopher B. Wright wrote:
>
>> I took typing in high school as a way of avoiding the
>> more "serious" classes. Turns out it was the single most useful skill I
>> took away from high school.
>
>Sibling!
>
>I don't really remember anything from high school. Of course that was forty
>years ago. But typing class has paid dividends ever since.

It was "only" thirty years ago for me. But "me too" - that
one-semester typing course was perhaps the single most useful class I
took in high school.

--
Erol K. Bayburt
ErolB1@aol.com

In article <0kepphH4nfZFFwy9@baradel.demon.co.uk>,
Helen Hall  <usenet@delete.this.baradel.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <oRZF1q6ioeZFFwC2@parkhead.demon.co.uk>, Jacey Bedford
><lookinsig@nospam.invalid> writes
>>
>>Other than learning to touch-type (maybe a little ambitious and just
>>another way of not starting the WIP) does anyone have any suggestions
>>for protecting fingers from the ravages of over-enthusiastic creativity?
>>
>>Just out of interest I did get one of those learn to touch type
>>programmes, but got frustrated because I was so slow.
>>
>It's very very difficult to learn to touch type once one has evolved
>one's own hunt-and-peck method because the typing speed will slow right
>down.  However, if one can persevere, one will pick up speed again and,
>ultimately, be much faster than before. I say "if one can persevere"
>because I have never yet seen any adult do it. But I'm sure it is
>possible.
>
>I was fortunate; I learned to touch type straight off. That's because
>way back when I was about 15, I read a How To book, from which I learned
>that a writer would be expected to type up the manuscript. My mother
>agreed to buy me a typewriter for Christmas, but she also bought me a
>Pitmans typing tutor book and encouraged me to learn to type properly.
>For some value of "properly". :-)

I had even better luck.  The high school I went to had two
tracks, as it were, of typing classes.  There was the real typing
course (two years, IIRC), designed for future secretaries.  And
then there was "Personal Typing for the College-Bound" (one
semester), which is what I should have signed up for, only the
administrative person goofed and signed me up for the real one.
I only stayed in it one semester, but during that semester I
*really learned how to type.*  It came in extremely handy, since
(in spite of my university degree) I wound up earning my bread
as a secretary for years and years.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

In article <12mbvl3ph85eif3@corp.supernews.com>,
 "Patricia C. Wrede" <pwrede6492@aol.com> wrote:

> If it's still too frustrating for words, try one of those speech-to-text
> programs, like ViaVoice or Dragon Dictate (I think at least one of these is
> out of business now, but I'm sure there are others around).

Dragon Dictate is still being produced, but the team that created it
broke up some years ago. The firm was bought out by a bigger firm, the
bigger firm turned out to have been cooking its books and went broke,
and the assets were sold off--by which time the team had dissolved. At
this point, according to my inside source from the old Dragon Systems,
they are making no further improvements--the original product
represented real breakthroughs--just fine tuning it to the improved
processors now available.

I don't know the situation with ViaVoice, but I think it's still on the
market.

--
 http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
 Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
 Published by Baen, in bookstores now

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:36:18 +0000, Jacey Bedford
<lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote:


>Just out of interest I did get one of those learn to touch type
>programmes, but got frustrated because I was so slow.
>
Yes.  It's very slow starting to learn to touch type.  Very.  But
there are big jumps in speed once your fingers learn the keys by
repetition.  If you try to type too quickly, you'll have lots of typos
like "lits" for list and "teh" for the.  These typos are so common
they've become somewhat cool in some newsgroups.   Your spell checker
will catch these, unlike the olden days of real typewriters with hard
to punch down keys.  Makes me love computers so much.  If you keep at
it learning touch it's worth it.

And watch the way your fingers hit the keys.  Proper touch typing has
you hitting them in certain ways (I don't do it quite properly, but
look at some of the diagrams in your program).  You might or might not
want to clip your fingernails, too, especially if you're hitting the
keys straight from above with the tips of your fingers, rather than
the pads of them.
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

In message <1164312078.910486.16230@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>,
Christopher B. Wright <ubersoft@gmail.com> writes
>
>Jacey Bedford wrote:
>> As a hunt and peck typist I can commit words to screen quite quickly,
>> but I'm finding that mostly I'm using the second finger on reach hand to
>> hit most of the keys with occasional help from my right index finger.
>>
>> Just lately I'm noticing that the ends of my second fingers are feeling
>> bruised and sore after a few days of relatively concentrated typing.
>> This is a bit worrying as I'm only at revision stage at the moment but
>> hope soon to be finishing that and starting on a new WIP first draft -
>> usually involving concentrated bouts of several days of 5 - 10k words a
>> day. (My writing style is all feast and famine but once I get going I'm
>> pretty bum-on-the-chair, nose-to-the-keyboard.
>
>The good news is that eventually the bruises should turn into
>callouses.  At least, that's what they do when you're learning to play
>guitar; I assume the same holds true for typing.

I'm not sure they will because it feels like 'bone' bruises, i.e.
pressure, not skin chafing.  I try and be light on the keys, but my
first contact with typewrites were old manual ones which you had to
hammer to get them to work - hence if I get too enthused, I can 'pound'
the keys more than I should.

Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
jacey at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
posting via usenet and not googlegroups, ourdebate
or any other forum that reprints usenet posts as
though they were the forum's own

In message <12mbvl3ph85eif3@corp.supernews.com>, Patricia C. Wrede
<pwrede6492@aol.com> writes
>
>"Jacey Bedford" <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>news:oRZF1q6ioeZFFwC2@parkhead.demon.co.uk...

I hadn't thought about the speech think, but it might work. I used to
have Dragon dictate but I'd need to find a new version, now.
>Still, spending an extra 15 minutes or half hour out
>of every two hours typing in some handwritten stuff is still tons better
>than spending a week in hospital for RSI surgery, or even needing a couple
>of months of physical therapy.

I don't think this is an RSI thing. Actually the hunt and peck saves me
from the kind of RSI that real typists get because I'm not rigidly
repetitive in my movements, I'm haphazard, It's just the constant
tap-tap-tapping on the same finger end that makes the bones feel
bruised. I'm even trying to type more flat - fingered rather than with
the finger ends to spread the load a bit.

I think I might have to try the touch typing trainer again as well
<sigh>

Jacey
>

--
Jacey Bedford
jacey at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
posting via usenet and not googlegroups, ourdebate
or any other forum that reprints usenet posts as
though they were the forum's own

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 19:43:26 -0800, Kat R <null.space@lycos.com>
wrote:



> Though if you're getting joint swelling, gentle
>stretches and icing may be a good idea.  Maybe even a hand massage once
>in a while.  You need to have happy hands.

When we were learning printing and cursive in 1st grade and up and
later, in high school, learning typing, all the teachers recommended
standing up every 15 minutes and shaking our hands in such a way that
they flopped loosely and rapidly from the wrists from side to side.
Not so much recommended as demanded....  By high school we were
allowed to do it sitting down in front of our typewriters.
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

In article <oRZF1q6ioeZFFwC2@parkhead.demon.co.uk>,
lookinsig@nospam.invalid says...
> As a hunt and peck typist I can commit words to screen quite quickly,
> but I'm finding that mostly I'm using the second finger on reach hand to
> hit most of the keys with occasional help from my right index finger.
>
> Just lately I'm noticing that the ends of my second fingers are feeling
> bruised and sore after a few days of relatively concentrated typing. 
If you are doing what you want to do, the body will obey.  Within
reason, anyway.

There is such a thing as RSI, I guess - but in this sort of instance, I
should expect your fingers will just harden up.

- Gerry Quinn

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 20:05:35 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <0kepphH4nfZFFwy9@baradel.demon.co.uk>,
>Helen Hall  <usenet@delete.this.baradel.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <oRZF1q6ioeZFFwC2@parkhead.demon.co.uk>, Jacey Bedford
>><lookinsig@nospam.invalid> writes
>>>
>>>Other than learning to touch-type (maybe a little ambitious and just
>>>another way of not starting the WIP) does anyone have any suggestions
>>>for protecting fingers from the ravages of over-enthusiastic creativity?
>>>
>>>Just out of interest I did get one of those learn to touch type
>>>programmes, but got frustrated because I was so slow.
>>>
>>It's very very difficult to learn to touch type once one has evolved
>>one's own hunt-and-peck method because the typing speed will slow right
>>down.  However, if one can persevere, one will pick up speed again and,
>>ultimately, be much faster than before. I say "if one can persevere"
>>because I have never yet seen any adult do it. But I'm sure it is
>>possible.
>>
>>I was fortunate; I learned to touch type straight off. That's because
>>way back when I was about 15, I read a How To book, from which I learned
>>that a writer would be expected to type up the manuscript. My mother
>>agreed to buy me a typewriter for Christmas, but she also bought me a
>>Pitmans typing tutor book and encouraged me to learn to type properly.
>>For some value of "properly". :-)
>
>I had even better luck.  The high school I went to had two
>tracks, as it were, of typing classes.  There was the real typing
>course (two years, IIRC), designed for future secretaries.  And
>then there was "Personal Typing for the College-Bound" (one
>semester), which is what I should have signed up for, only the
>administrative person goofed and signed me up for the real one.
>I only stayed in it one semester, but during that semester I
>*really learned how to type.*  It came in extremely handy, since
>(in spite of my university degree) I wound up earning my bread
>as a secretary for years and years.

My mother won the typing trophy (I still have the pin) for Washington
State her last year in high school and she taught me how to type when
I was five.
--
Marilee J. Layman
http://mjlayman.livejournal.com/

In message <MPG.1fd0569cb2f8bb0498b335@news1.eircom.net>, Gerry Quinn
<gerryq@DELETETHISindigo.ie> writes
>In article <oRZF1q6ioeZFFwC2@parkhead.demon.co.uk>,
>lookinsig@nospam.invalid says...
>> As a hunt and peck typist I can commit words to screen quite quickly,
>> but I'm finding that mostly I'm using the second finger on reach hand to
>> hit most of the keys with occasional help from my right index finger.
>>
>> Just lately I'm noticing that the ends of my second fingers are feeling
>> bruised and sore after a few days of relatively concentrated typing. >
>If you are doing what you want to do, the body will obey.  Within
>reason, anyway.
>
>There is such a thing as RSI, I guess - but in this sort of instance, I
>should expect your fingers will just harden up.

That's the thing... I used to type for five or seven days straight with
no ill effects (other than on my backside) but this sore finger thing is
quite recent.

Jacey

--
Jacey Bedford
jacey at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
posting via usenet and not googlegroups, ourdebate
or any other forum that reprints usenet posts as
though they were the forum's own

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:36:18 +0000, Jacey Bedford
<lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>Just lately I'm noticing that the ends of my second fingers are feeling
>bruised and sore after a few days of relatively concentrated typing.
>This is a bit worrying as I'm only at revision stage at the moment but
>hope soon to be finishing that and starting on a new WIP first draft -
>usually involving concentrated bouts of several days of 5 - 10k words a
>day. (My writing style is all feast and famine but once I get going I'm
>pretty bum-on-the-chair, nose-to-the-keyboard.

When I handle a lot of paper, the prints on my fingers get worn so
slick that I can't separate the pages.  I found that some office
supply stores sell little finger-tip gloves to help grip the paper.

Perhaps these might help, perhaps they would be like wearing mittens
or worse.  At any rate, they might cushion your fingers long enough to
let them heal.
__
JamesE

Gerry Quinn wrote:

> If you are doing what you want to do, the body will obey.  Within
> reason, anyway.

A couple of years ago I was pruning some plants -- humulus lupulus
aureus if I remember correcftly and with one swift sweep of the
secateurs almost severed the callous on my left hand index finger, the
bit on the very tip which builds up after playing mando for a few years.
The local doctor, a farmer's wife, stuck it back together with tape. It
throbbed a bit and stung whenever I touched it. I could play nothing
more sophisticated than a bongo drum without pressing on it.

In three days I was back playing. It hurt, of course it hurt, but so
what? I really need to play.

JF
Currently singing 'God's gonna cut you down' but in a much more florid
style than Johnny Cash.

Helen Hall wrote:
> It's very very difficult to learn to touch type once one has evolved
> one's own hunt-and-peck method because the typing speed will slow right
> down.  However, if one can persevere, one will pick up speed again and,
> ultimately, be much faster than before. I say "if one can persevere"
> because I have never yet seen any adult do it. But I'm sure it is
> possible.

It's definitely possible, provided you count a first-year university
student as an adult. I was a fairly fast hunt-and-peck typist when,
late in the year, I decided I really ought to learn to touch-type. I
think it helped that I could feel my touch-typing improving even when
it was still slower than my normal methods - like (I suspect) most
people, I find learning a new skill easier when I feel like I'm making
progress.

> On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:36:18 +0000, Jacey Bedford
> <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>> Just out of interest I did get one of those learn to touch type
>> programmes, but got frustrated because I was so slow.

How long did you perservere?  I learned to touch type on a very simple
program years back and I was surprised at how quick and easy it was (by
which I mean I was up to a reasonable speed (45wpm ish) within a week of
daily practise). It took writing a PHD thesis to seriously improve on
that speed though.  Definitely a skill worth learning.

Gruff

--
Nanotechnology socks and towels. Intrigued?
Find out more: www.agactive.co.uk
(If you want to buy these as Christmas presents, email me
because I can get my rascf friends a "matesrates" discount)

Zeborah wrote:
  > RSI, also called OOS (occupational overuse syndrome), also called
> something new which I forget(1), isn't necessarily about repetitive
> movements, it can also be about a muscle being held tensed for too long.
> So if you're holding your hands in a particular way as you hunt and peck
> (and I'd guess you are at least in-as-much as having the index finger
> sticking straight out) then you could still get it:  there are muscles
> in your fingers as well as your wrists.
>
/snip/

> Zeborah
> (1) Found it: GPI, Gradual Process Injuries.  Someone somewhere suffers
> from Repetitive Renaming Syndrome.

LOL.

Gruff

--
Nanotechnology socks and towels. Intrigued?
Find out more: www.agactive.co.uk
(If you want to buy these as Christmas presents, email me
because I can get my rascf friends a "matesrates" discount)

In message <M7SXuyBL7xZFFwUT@baradel.demon.co.uk>, Helen Hall
<usenet@delete.this.baradel.demon.co.uk> writes
>In message <ek6kjl$q8q$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Charlie Allery
><charlie@charlieallery.demon.co.uk> writes
>>
>>I also have the Pitman's Teach Yourself book. I tried teaching myself when I
>>was about 18 and my stories were getting longer. I almost got the hang of
>>it, but, in the end it was more important not to make a mistake than it was
>>to learn to type faster.  So I reverted to watching my fingers not the
>>screen.
>
>Screen? What is this "screen" whereof you speak?  I was typing on
>paper. :-)
>
>But in those days, I wrote first draft by hand and I typed it up fairly
>slowly because I was revising as I went.

I learned to type by writing baby programs on a DECWriter -- a teletype
terminal. Hunt-and-peck, but accurate hunt-and-peck because it's a pain
correcting stuff on one of those.

My typing has gone downhill since I started hanging out on irc, alas.
Trying to type at that speed doesn't really work for me.
--
Julia Jones
"We are English of Borg. Your language will be assimilated."

In article <45668b6f$0$135$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk>,
julian@ooopsfloodsclimbers.co.uk says...
> Gerry Quinn wrote:
>
> > If you are doing what you want to do, the body will obey.  Within
> > reason, anyway.
>
> A couple of years ago I was pruning some plants -- humulus lupulus
> aureus if I remember correcftly and with one swift sweep of the
> secateurs almost severed the callous on my left hand index finger, the
> bit on the very tip which builds up after playing mando for a few years.
> The local doctor, a farmer's wife, stuck it back together with tape.

I have a vision of a village of amiable zombies, using string, tape and
superglue to restore parts accidentally severed as they go about their
daily business...

[Might be an idea for Torchwood, if they want to do something light for
a change.]

- Gerry Quinn

"Helen Hall" <usenet@delete.this.baradel.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0kepphH4nfZFFwy9@baradel.demon.co.uk...
> In message <oRZF1q6ioeZFFwC2@parkhead.demon.co.uk>, Jacey Bedford
> <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> writes
>>
>>Other than learning to touch-type (maybe a little ambitious and just
>>another way of not starting the WIP) does anyone have any suggestions for
>>protecting fingers from the ravages of over-enthusiastic creativity?
>>
>>Just out of interest I did get one of those learn to touch type
>>programmes, but got frustrated because I was so slow.
>>
> It's very very difficult to learn to touch type once one has evolved one's
> own hunt-and-peck method because the typing speed will slow right down.
> However, if one can persevere, one will pick up speed again and,
> ultimately, be much faster than before. I say "if one can persevere"
> because I have never yet seen any adult do it. But I'm sure it is
> possible.
>
> I was fortunate; I learned to touch type straight off. That's because way
> back when I was about 15, I read a How To book, from which I learned that
> a writer would be expected to type up the manuscript. My mother agreed to
> buy me a typewriter for Christmas, but she also bought me a Pitmans typing
> tutor book and encouraged me to learn to type properly. For some value of
> "properly". :-)
>

I also have the Pitman's Teach Yourself book. I tried teaching myself when I
was about 18 and my stories were getting longer. I almost got the hang of
it, but, in the end it was more important not to make a mistake than it was
to learn to type faster.  So I reverted to watching my fingers not the
screen. Now that mistakes don't matter, speed is less important, but I don't
have time for exercises. I'm pretty happy with my version of hunt and peck.
I use thumb and 2 fingers on my right hand to cover the right 2/3rds of the
keyboard and the 2nd finger left  covers the left side. Odd assists from the
other fingers on the right hand. Mostly it seems to be a case of using
alternate hands, wherever the keys. *shrug*

Charlie

Zeborah <zeborah@gmail.com> wrote:

> Can you find one that does it as a game?  Mavis Beacon has car racing
> among other things (or did when I used it a decade or so ago):  the
> faster you type the faster your car goes.

My kids all prefer Disney's Timon and Pumbaa's Adventures in Typing to
Mavis Beacon.  They say Mavis isn't as fun AND is too easy to cheat on.
Disney's doesn't go up to number keys though, just letters and basic
punctuation, and I think it may be out of print.

(I've never tried Mavis, so I can't compare, but I was rather impressed
with the Timon and Pumbaa thingy.  My favorite game is the one where you
are chasing bugs across the rocks by the waterfall.)

--
Michelle Bottorff -> Chelle B. -> Shelby
L. Shelby, Writer  http://www.lshelby.com/
Livejournal http://lavenderbard.livejournal.com/
rec.arts.sf.composition FAQ http://www.lshelby.com/rasfcFAQ.html

In message <ek6kjl$q8q$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Charlie Allery
<charlie@charlieallery.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>I also have the Pitman's Teach Yourself book. I tried teaching myself when I
>was about 18 and my stories were getting longer. I almost got the hang of
>it, but, in the end it was more important not to make a mistake than it was
>to learn to type faster.  So I reverted to watching my fingers not the
>screen.

Screen? What is this "screen" whereof you speak?  I was typing on paper.
:-)

But in those days, I wrote first draft by hand and I typed it up fairly
slowly because I was revising as I went.

Helen
--
Helen, Gwynedd, Wales *** http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk
_A Legacy of War_, a fantasy murder mystery, now on the web at:
http://helenkenyon.livejournal.com/413.html

"Helen Hall" <usenet@delete.this.baradel.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:M7SXuyBL7xZFFwUT@baradel.demon.co.uk...
> In message <ek6kjl$q8q$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Charlie Allery
> <charlie@charlieallery.demon.co.uk> writes
>>
>>I also have the Pitman's Teach Yourself book. I tried teaching myself when
>>I
>>was about 18 and my stories were getting longer. I almost got the hang of
>>it, but, in the end it was more important not to make a mistake than it
>>was
>>to learn to type faster.  So I reverted to watching my fingers not the
>>screen.
>
> Screen? What is this "screen" whereof you speak?  I was typing on paper.
> :-)
>
> But in those days, I wrote first draft by hand and I typed it up fairly
> slowly because I was revising as I went.
>

And, you know what? I was typing on paper then as well *g*, I just forgot to
differentiate between then and now. And I only used to type up the final
draft, which was basically not likely to be changed in the typing, hence the
requirement for speed over mistakes. My longest effort was 40k words. And at
that, the editor's sister (fanfic, you realise) re-typed it herself for the
photocopy run. :-)

Charlie

Jacey Bedford <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> I don't think this is an RSI thing. Actually the hunt and peck saves me
> from the kind of RSI that real typists get because I'm not rigidly
> repetitive in my movements, I'm haphazard, It's just the constant
> tap-tap-tapping on the same finger end that makes the bones feel
> bruised.

RSI, also called OOS (occupational overuse syndrome), also called
something new which I forget(1), isn't necessarily about repetitive
movements, it can also be about a muscle being held tensed for too long.
So if you're holding your hands in a particular way as you hunt and peck
(and I'd guess you are at least in-as-much as having the index finger
sticking straight out) then you could still get it:  there are muscles
in your fingers as well as your wrists.

The pain you describe doesn't *sound* like it's muscle- or
tendon-related, but it's still worth making sure that your posture and
workstation are right and that you take regular microbreaks (a few
seconds every couple of minutes of continuous typing, with your hands
completely relaxed by your side) and breaks (at least a few minutes
every quarter/half hour).  By way of prevention if nothing else.  And
this would relieve your bones from the typing/bruising too, I'd expect.

>I'm even trying to type more flat - fingered rather than with
> the finger ends to spread the load a bit.

Hmm, I suspect that means you're keeping your fingers straighter than
usual as you type; that could have repercussions on your finger muscles,
so do be careful with that and make sure you take those breaks.

> I think I might have to try the touch typing trainer again as well
> <sigh>

Can you find one that does it as a game?  Mavis Beacon has car racing
among other things (or did when I used it a decade or so ago):  the
faster you type the faster your car goes.
http://www.broderbund.com/jump.jsp?itemIDH15&itemTypeÊTEGORY - I see
something about a free trial version for Windows.

Zeborah
(1) Found it: GPI, Gradual Process Injuries.  Someone somewhere suffers
from Repetitive Renaming Syndrome.
--
Gravity is no joke.
http://www.geocities.com/zeborahnz/
rasfc FAQ:  http://www.lshelby.com/rasfcFAQ.html

Charlie Allery wrote:

>> But in those days, I wrote first draft by hand and I typed it up fairly
>> slowly because I was revising as I went.
>>
>
> And, you know what? I was typing on paper then as well *g*, I just forgot to
> differentiate between then and now. And I only used to type up the final
> draft, which was basically not likely to be changed in the typing, hence the
> requirement for speed over mistakes. My longest effort was 40k words. And at
> that, the editor's sister (fanfic, you realise) re-typed it herself for the
> photocopy run. :-)

You 'ad paper? Huh! we dreamed of paper. Birch bark it were when we were
kids, birch bark and like it.

JF

"Jacey Bedford" <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:oRZF1q6ioeZFFwC2@parkhead.demon.co.uk...

> Other than learning to touch-type (maybe a little ambitious and just
> another way of not starting the WIP) does anyone have any suggestions for
> protecting fingers from the ravages of over-enthusiastic creativity?
>
> Just out of interest I did get one of those learn to touch type
> programmes, but got frustrated because I was so slow.

I'm really grateful for having learned to touch-type.  I suggest devoting
some of your time to touch-typing, but not saying "I won't write until I can
touch-type".  The productivity gains should offset the investment after the
first couple of weeks.



Nick

"Julian Flood" <julian@ooopsfloodsclimbers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:45674110$0$137$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk...
> Charlie Allery wrote:
>
>>> But in those days, I wrote first draft by hand and I typed it up fairly
>>> slowly because I was revising as I went.
>>>
>>
>> And, you know what? I was typing on paper then as well *g*, I just forgot
>> to differentiate between then and now. And I only used to type up the
>> final draft, which was basically not likely to be changed in the typing,
>> hence the requirement for speed over mistakes. My longest effort was 40k
>> words. And at that, the editor's sister (fanfic, you realise) re-typed it
>> herself for the photocopy run. :-)
>
> You 'ad paper? Huh! we dreamed of paper. Birch bark it were when we were
> kids, birch bark and like it.
>

Hmm, doesn't that crack when you wind it onto the roller? And did the ink
bleed into the grain? And where on earth would you find birch bark
correction sheets? Hmm, envisaging early typewriter that uses red hot type
to brand letters into bark ...

Charlie

On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 04:23:06 GMT, James Eades <jeeades@swbell.net>
wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:36:18 +0000, Jacey Bedford
><lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Just lately I'm noticing that the ends of my second fingers are feeling
>>bruised and sore after a few days of relatively concentrated typing.
>>This is a bit worrying as I'm only at revision stage at the moment but
>>hope soon to be finishing that and starting on a new WIP first draft -
>>usually involving concentrated bouts of several days of 5 - 10k words a
>>day. (My writing style is all feast and famine but once I get going I'm
>>pretty bum-on-the-chair, nose-to-the-keyboard.
>
>When I handle a lot of paper, the prints on my fingers get worn so
>slick that I can't separate the pages.  I found that some office
>supply stores sell little finger-tip gloves to help grip the paper.

It isn't really slick, your hands get dry.  I have to use gloves or
put on some lotion before I drive or else the wheel slips through my
hands.

I use the accountant finger-tips to pull needles.

>Perhaps these might help, perhaps they would be like wearing mittens
>or worse.  At any rate, they might cushion your fingers long enough to
>let them heal.
>__
>JamesE
--
Marilee J. Layman
http://mjlayman.livejournal.com/

On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 19:25:54 +0000, Charlie Allery wrote:

>
> "Julian Flood" <julian@ooopsfloodsclimbers.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:45674110$0$137$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk...
>> Charlie Allery wrote:
>>
>>>> But in those days, I wrote first draft by hand and I typed it up fairly
>>>> slowly because I was revising as I went.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And, you know what? I was typing on paper then as well *g*, I just forgot
>>> to differentiate between then and now. And I only used to type up the
>>> final draft, which was basically not likely to be changed in the typing,
>>> hence the requirement for speed over mistakes. My longest effort was 40k
>>> words. And at that, the editor's sister (fanfic, you realise) re-typed it
>>> herself for the photocopy run. :-)
>>
>> You 'ad paper? Huh! we dreamed of paper. Birch bark it were when we were
>> kids, birch bark and like it.
>>
>
> Hmm, doesn't that crack when you wind it onto the roller? And did the ink
> bleed into the grain? And where on earth would you find birch bark
> correction sheets? Hmm, envisaging early typewriter that uses red hot type
> to brand letters into bark ...

The snag, the real problem, with cuneiform... is if you write slowly the
damn page sets...

Neil
--
"I hate a Barnacle as no man ever did before" - Charles Darwin 24/10/1852

"Zeborah" <zeborah@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1hpbkvh.1qy7ihy16125keN%zeborah@gmail.com...
> Jacey Bedford <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I don't think this is an RSI thing. Actually the hunt and peck saves me
>> from the kind of RSI that real typists get because I'm not rigidly
>> repetitive in my movements, I'm haphazard, It's just the constant
>> tap-tap-tapping on the same finger end that makes the bones feel
>> bruised.
>
> RSI, also called OOS (occupational overuse syndrome), also called
> something new which I forget(1), isn't necessarily about repetitive
> movements, it can also be about a muscle being held tensed for too long.
> So if you're holding your hands in a particular way as you hunt and peck
> (and I'd guess you are at least in-as-much as having the index finger
> sticking straight out) then you could still get it:  there are muscles
> in your fingers as well as your wrists.

> Zeborah
> (1) Found it: GPI, Gradual Process Injuries.  Someone somewhere suffers
> from Repetitive Renaming Syndrome.

Were those the same people who first identified Spurious Syndrome
Identification Syndrome?



Nick

In message <MPG.1fd0ded073ef3efc98b336@news1.eircom.net>, Gerry Quinn
<gerryq@DELETETHISindigo.ie> writes
>In article <45668b6f$0$135$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk>,
>julian@ooopsfloodsclimbers.co.uk says...
>> Gerry Quinn wrote:
>>
>> > If you are doing what you want to do, the body will obey.  Within
>> > reason, anyway.
>>
>> A couple of years ago I was pruning some plants -- humulus lupulus
>> aureus if I remember correcftly and with one swift sweep of the
>> secateurs almost severed the callous on my left hand index finger, the
>> bit on the very tip which builds up after playing mando for a few years.
>> The local doctor, a farmer's wife, stuck it back together with tape.
>
>I have a vision of a village of amiable zombies, using string, tape and
>superglue to restore parts accidentally severed as they go about their
>daily business...
>
>[Might be an idea for Torchwood, if they want to do something light for
>a change.]
The man-eating Welshman was quite good fun! Not sure 'light' is quite
their style, but I'm getting into the series quite nicely!
:-)
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
jacey at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
posting via usenet and not googlegroups, ourdebate
or any other forum that reprints usenet posts as
though they were the forum's own

In message <1164332808.648577.266090@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>,
ravelgrane <erikray@gmail.com> writes
>Jacey, I never learned to touch type, but I can do pretty well with 3
>fingers (middle, index, thumb). The best advice I can give is to take
>frequent breaks from the typing. When I was in college I got a bad case
>of tendonitis because I would go for hours and hours without breaks.
>What I do is, write for 15 minutes then stop. Do something else like
>read what you wrote, make notes on a notepad, make some coffee, go have
>a smoke, whatever. Then after a couple minutes go back to writing. The
>reason this is important is if you are stressing out your muscles and
>tendons, this will give them a chance to cool down before damage sets
>in. Since then, I have never had a problem with the old tendons.
>
>As for the aching fingertips, that could be a different problem. You
>should think about the keyboard you are using. If it is a laptop
>computer, the keyboard could be too small, but you can usually plug any
>USB keyboard in there as a substitute. I long for the days when
>keyboards were big and clicky (made a satisfying click-clack sound).
>Today's limp keys just don't do it for me.


I've got a fairly light feel 'click' keyboard (logitech cordless) which
I really like. It's on a pull-out drawer, which makes it quite low down.
Maybe I'll experiment with the height and see if it makes a difference
as to which bit of my finger strikes the keys.

Jacey

--
Jacey Bedford
jacey at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
posting via usenet and not googlegroups, ourdebate
or any other forum that reprints usenet posts as
though they were the forum's own

In message <EridnXj-3-p6N_vYRVnyhA@eclipse.net.uk>, Gruff
<gruffstar_remove@googlemail.com> writes
>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:36:18 +0000, Jacey Bedford
>> <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Just out of interest I did get one of those learn to touch type
>>>programmes, but got frustrated because I was so slow.
>
>How long did you perservere?  I learned to touch type on a very simple
>program years back and I was surprised at how quick and easy it was (by
>which I mean I was up to a reasonable speed (45wpm ish) within a week
>of daily practise). It took writing a PHD thesis to seriously improve
>on that speed though.  Definitely a skill worth learning.

I played with it for about four or five days. Then I needed to turn in
some work pretty quickly and cut back to old habits for speed.

Do you reckon it's all or nothing? Once you start the touch typing you
shouldn't ever let yourself hunt and peck?

Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
jacey at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
posting via usenet and not googlegroups, ourdebate
or any other forum that reprints usenet posts as
though they were the forum's own