🚀 go-pugleaf

"Wheresthebabes?" <Wombat4599@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lmpac0d7mutgrbg4pdi90pb4iftvmetmvb@4ax.com...
>
>
> Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>

Haven't seen the movie (probably tommorow), but i've read the book. It may
be the pacing of the movie which makes it seem disjointed. The book  is
about  436 pages and maybe the producers tried to cram everything in there.

As for the clothes, it sounds like artistic liberty.

I don't know how they are going to fit Goblet of Fire into one movie, it's
like 700 or more pages.

"Wheresthebabes?" <Wombat4599@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lmpac0d7mutgrbg4pdi90pb4iftvmetmvb@4ax.com...
>
>
> Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I thought this was the worst written by far of the 3 Potter movies.
> My major complaints:
>
> 1. Sirius Black is portrayed as a violent lunatic, who's mug shot is
> constantly screaming at the audience and whose character design
> is obviously modeled after Charles Manson. Yet, when he finally shows
> up, he's just an ordinary sweetheart of a guy, and in fact is Harry's
> pal. I found this to be a jarring transformation. If they were going
> to do this, then some sort of fore-shadowing would have been in order,
> or at least, he should have been portrayed as sinister, but not a
> ranting madman.

Azkaban and the dementor's do that to a person.

> 2. The "Deux ex machina" ending. Oh golly, suddenly Hermine has a time
> machine and can go back and fix everything. This certainly saves time
> and effort from writing a real ending.

Not "Deux ex machina" as it had already been heavily foreshadowed by
Hermione's seemingly impossible lesson plan, and her just appearing in
class.

> 3. The "Dementors", prison guards at Azkaban, are after Potter.
> WHY???? This is never explained, beyond some quick hand waving about
> Potter having no good memories or some such. If they had somehow been
> co-opted by the bad guys it would make sense, yet nothing like this is
> suggested.

There are more films to come.

> 4. The REAL bad guy is actually Scabbers, Ron Weasilie's pet rat.
>     HUH??????????????? Talk about an improbable coincidence.

Well, maybe.

kaydigi wrote:

> I don't know how they are going to fit Goblet of Fire into one movie, it's
> like 700 or more pages.

Let's just say Book 4 *needed* condensing--BADLY.

Warner dropped its plans to do two movies, for "expedited" reasons
(ahemmatrixcoughkillbill), and trying to fit it into one has pushed the
issue of what exactly the key money plot and scene impeti of the book were--

Among other things, Richard Griffiths mentioned in interviews how he was
surprised to be told the Dursley's services would not be required this
time out...

Derek Janssen
djanss@rcn.com

Grand Inquisitor wrote:

> Wheresthebabes? wrote:
>
>>
>> Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I thought this was the worst written by far of the 3 Potter movies.
>> My major complaints:
>>
>> 1. Sirius Black is portrayed as a violent lunatic, who's mug shot is
>> constantly screaming at the audience and whose character design
>> is obviously modeled after Charles Manson. Yet, when he finally shows
>> up, he's just an ordinary sweetheart of a guy, and in fact is Harry's
>> pal. I found this to be a jarring transformation. If they were going
>> to do this, then some sort of fore-shadowing would have been in order,
>> or at least, he should have been portrayed as sinister, but not a
>> ranting madman.
>
> I thought about that too, but then I thought, if you can take a "living"
> photograph of a person using "magic," surely you can fake one.

We later find out Black's imprisonment could have been part of a larger
deliberate frame-up, so the "lunatic" photo may have been part of the plot.

> Was it just me or did they really change the exteriors of
> Hagrid's hut?

Seems most of the exteriors were changed for the new director's art design--
Don't remember that huge pendulum clock being there, or the whole stone
gothic-ruin forecourt..
>
>> I can understand the Wolf in the tea leaves, but what was with the
>> wolf in the sky?
>
> You're talking about a magical universe, ya know.

Also, it's reflecting that Potter's had a few Divination lessons (as
with seeing Black in the crystal ball), and is beginning to intuitively
suspect a few things about Lupin...What, of course, he's not
script-allowed to know yet.

>> What happened to the ghosts like "Nearly Headless Nick" ?
>
> Again, as much as we might like certain characters I don't see why they
> should show up in every single installment as predominantly as they do
> in the first few.  And there were ghosts, didn't you notice the knight
> holding the head, and the other knight chasing after him missing his head?

Thought they were just saving money writing John Cleese out of the
script, since NHN figured in #2's plot, but doesn't really surface
enough in the books to rate beyond an obligatory cameo until #5.

Derek Janssen (assuming they're dumb enough to actually try it)
djanss@rcn.com

Wheresthebabes? wrote:

>
> Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I thought this was the worst written by far of the 3 Potter movies.
> My major complaints:
>
> 1. Sirius Black is portrayed as a violent lunatic, who's mug shot is
> constantly screaming at the audience and whose character design
> is obviously modeled after Charles Manson. Yet, when he finally shows
> up, he's just an ordinary sweetheart of a guy, and in fact is Harry's
> pal. I found this to be a jarring transformation. If they were going
> to do this, then some sort of fore-shadowing would have been in order,
> or at least, he should have been portrayed as sinister, but not a
> ranting madman.
>

I thought about that too, but then I thought, if you can take a "living"
photograph of a person using "magic," surely you can fake one.  Frankly
it looked to me like he was laughing his head off.  Maybe they told him
the one about the Irishman, the Scotsman, and the Englishman who walked
into a bar....

> 2. The "Deux ex machina" ending. Oh golly, suddenly Hermine has a time
> machine and can go back and fix everything. This certainly saves time
> and effort from writing a real ending.
>

I guess you weren't paying attention, as this was being foreshadowed
throughout the movie.

> 3. The "Dementors", prison guards at Azkaban, are after Potter.
> WHY???? This is never explained, beyond some quick hand waving about
> Potter having no good memories or some such. If they had somehow been
> co-opted by the bad guys it would make sense, yet nothing like this is
> suggested.
>

If I had to guess (and I do, since I don't know), I'd say it had to do
with what what's-his-name saying the Dementors won't hesitate to go
after anybody who gets even the slightest bit in their way.

> There are also some minor, but disturbing problems as well.
>
> Draco, one of the most interesting characters is reduced to a couple
> of scenes as a run of the mill schoolyard bully and coward.
>

I think it's silly to expect every side character to get a lot of
representation in each installment, it's restrictive on the story.
Looking back on my favorite Star Treks, they are usually the ones that
predominantly feature one or two characters, rather than the ensemble
episodes.

> Dumbledore: They should have gone for an entirely different look,
> rather than having someone do the first one so badly.
>

I thought the actor did an okay job, he wasn't required to do much.
Besides, they shouldn't change things too drastically between
installments.  Was it just me or did they really change the exteriors of
Hagrid's hut?

> I can understand the Wolf in the tea leaves, but what was with the
> wolf in the sky?
>

You're talking about a magical universe, ya know.

> What happened to all the older and/or younger students at Hogwarts?
>

They were in the background.  Only a few scenes took place in areas
where there would be students of all different age groups.

>
> Did they get rid of the dress code during the last year? Where
> previously, everyone was well dressed and neat, now they are sloppy
> and ill groomed.
>

According to EW that was because of a change in costume artist, they
wanted the costume to better reflect the Dickensian feel of the novels.

> What happened to the ghosts like "Nearly Headless Nick" ?
>

Again, as much as we might like certain characters I don't see why they
should show up in every single installment as predominantly as they do
in the first few.  And there were ghosts, didn't you notice the knight
holding the head, and the other knight chasing after him missing his head?

> In short, I was greatly disappointed in this installment

Thought it was the best one so far.

--
"I like the cover:  'DON'T PANIC.'  It's the first sensible thing I've
heard all day."
--Arthur Dent

Grand Inquisitor
http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=Oost

Grand Inquisitor wrote:
>
> Wheresthebabes? wrote:
>
> > 1. Sirius Black is portrayed as a violent lunatic, who's mug shot is
> > constantly screaming at the audience and whose character design
> > is obviously modeled after Charles Manson. Yet, when he finally shows
> > up, he's just an ordinary sweetheart of a guy, and in fact is Harry's
> > pal. I found this to be a jarring transformation. If they were going
> > to do this, then some sort of fore-shadowing would have been in order,
> > or at least, he should have been portrayed as sinister, but not a
> > ranting madman.


What didn't make sense to me was why it took Sirius _so_ long to do
what he came to do. As well, the Dementors must have taken hunting
lessons from the Nazgul given it took them a whole freakin' school
year to finally find SB--and not because they did much to flush him
out.


>
> > 2. The "Deux ex machina" ending. Oh golly, suddenly Hermine has a time
> > machine and can go back and fix everything. This certainly saves time
> > and effort from writing a real ending.
> >
>
> I guess you weren't paying attention, as this was being foreshadowed
> throughout the movie.


Whatever--it still was a weak ending, as bad as SUPERMAN's.

>
> > 3. The "Dementors", prison guards at Azkaban, are after Potter.
> > WHY???? This is never explained, beyond some quick hand waving about
> > Potter having no good memories or some such. If they had somehow been
> > co-opted by the bad guys it would make sense, yet nothing like this is
> > suggested.
> >
>
> If I had to guess (and I do, since I don't know), I'd say it had to do
> with what what's-his-name saying the Dementors won't hesitate to go
> after anybody who gets even the slightest bit in their way.

Yeah, I was wondering what the deal was with that, too. What purpose
did it serve to go after him during the Quidditch match, for
example? If they wanted his memories so bad, why not just soul-suck
him right off? (especially since they were pretty much a law onto
themselves.)

>
> Thought it was the best one so far.

Eh. Smarter direction; some really eerie moments and good
performances; but the plot was really slack and the pacing was
deadly. Better than the first two, but still not quite good enough.

C.
**

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 17:50:59 GMT, Grand Inquisitor
<zork@columbus.rr.com> wrote:


>> 2. The "Deux ex machina" ending. Oh golly, suddenly Hermine has a time
>> machine and can go back and fix everything. This certainly saves time
>> and effort from writing a real ending.
>>
>
>I guess you weren't paying attention, as this was being foreshadowed
>throughout the movie.


Foreshadowing a bad ending doesn't make it a good ending.
The "Time machine" ending is a cheap way out of any plot
problem.

>
>> 3. The "Dementors", prison guards at Azkaban, are after Potter.
>> WHY???? This is never explained, beyond some quick hand waving about
>> Potter having no good memories or some such. If they had somehow been
>> co-opted by the bad guys it would make sense, yet nothing like this is
>> suggested.
>>
>
>If I had to guess (and I do, since I don't know), I'd say it had to do
>with what what's-his-name saying the Dementors won't hesitate to go
>after anybody who gets even the slightest bit in their way.


In a well written story, you wouldn't have to guess.

>
>> I can understand the Wolf in the tea leaves, but what was with the
>> wolf in the sky?
>>
>
>You're talking about a magical universe, ya know.

The previous films show a magical, but also logical universe. They
use Owls to communicate, so you don't expect a flying cow to come
through the window. There was no reason for the wolf to be in the sky.

>
>> In short, I was greatly disappointed in this installment
>
>Thought it was the best one so far.

There are poorly written movies that I like, mainly due to
some style or message that appeals to me. But I don't
pretend that they are good movies for all that.

"Grand Inquisitor" <zork@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:70nxc.6157$ih7.3089@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> >
>
> I thought about that too, but then I thought, if you can take a "living"
> photograph of a person using "magic," surely you can fake one.  Frankly
> it looked to me like he was laughing his head off.  Maybe they told him
> the one about the Irishman, the Scotsman, and the Englishman who walked
> into a bar....
>
...and the bartender looks at them and asks, "What is this, some kind of
joke?"

<crickets>
--
Zamboni

deering24@mindspring.com wrote:
> What didn't make sense to me was why it took Sirius _so_ long to do
> what he came to do.

He didn't know where Peter the rat was, nor was he out to do 'anything'. He was just
hiding out.

> As well, the Dementors must have taken hunting
> lessons from the Nazgul given it took them a whole freakin' school
> year to finally find SB--and not because they did much to flush him
> out.

Dumbledore kind of made that happen, as he didn't let them into the school. If he did,
then they would have probably caught him immediately.

> Whatever--it still was a weak ending, as bad as SUPERMAN's.

True. The book was a little better, more darker and sinister.

> Yeah, I was wondering what the deal was with that, too. What purpose
> did it serve to go after him during the Quidditch match, for
> example? If they wanted his memories so bad, why not just soul-suck
> him right off? (especially since they were pretty much a law onto
> themselves.)

Dumbledore doesn't let them on the grounds. Potter got far enough away so they could try a
quick grab.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk ..."
    -till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
        consul@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com ((remove the INVALID to email))

Wheresthebabes? wrote:
>
> On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 17:50:59 GMT, Grand Inquisitor
> <zork@columbus.rr.com> wrote:

> >I guess you weren't paying attention, as this was being foreshadowed
> >throughout the movie.
>
> Foreshadowing a bad ending doesn't make it a good ending.
> The "Time machine" ending is a cheap way out of any plot
> problem.
>
> >If I had to guess (and I do, since I don't know), I'd say it had to do
> >with what what's-his-name saying the Dementors won't hesitate to go
> >after anybody who gets even the slightest bit in their way.
>
> In a well written story, you wouldn't have to guess.
>

Were these problems in the original book, or ...?

C.
**
(who's only gotten as far as COS)

deering24@mindspring.com wrote:
> ~consul wrote:
>>He didn't know where Peter the rat was, nor was he out to do 'anything'. He was just
>>hiding out.
> Why Hogwarts? Did he want to talk to Harry, or was that just
> incidental?

He's Harry's godfather, he's accused leading the murderer to them and giving them up.
Hogwarts was the best place for him growing up. He's got no place else to go really.

>>Dumbledore kind of made that happen, as he didn't let them into the school. If he did,
>>then they would have probably caught him immediately.
> Hmm,I'm surprised they didn't pull rank if they didn't sense SB
> there. Were they accountable to anyone, or...?

In the book, they have a problem probing or figureing out non-human forms. SIrius was
supposedly in wolf form all the time out. It is also how he survived Askaban and how he
escaped.

>>True. The book was a little better, more darker and sinister.
> How did the book end?

I mean that they focus more on more scary wording and text description. Dementors don't
just make you hear bad things, you sort of live the pain. Like in the movie, it seems that
Harry just passes out when Dementors face him, but in the book, it's more like he passes
out from the excrutiating cry your mommas name shite in yer pants pain.

>>Dumbledore doesn't let them on the grounds. Potter got far enough away so they could try a
>>quick grab.
> Heh--so Dumbledore's power has atmospheric limits, eh? :).

And also, we find out that while the Dememtors are guards at the Azkaban Prison, and
report to the Ministry of Magic, they don't necessarily 'work' for the Ministry and the
good of Magic.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk ..."
    -till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
        consul@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com ((remove the INVALID to email))

~consul wrote:
>
> He didn't know where Peter the rat was, nor was he out to do 'anything'. He was just
> hiding out.

Why Hogwarts? Did he want to talk to Harry, or was that just
incidental?

> > As well, the Dementors must have taken hunting
> > lessons from the Nazgul given it took them a whole freakin' school
> > year to finally find SB--and not because they did much to flush him
> > out.
>
> Dumbledore kind of made that happen, as he didn't let them into the school. If he did,
> then they would have probably caught him immediately.

Hmm,I'm surprised they didn't pull rank if they didn't sense SB
there. Were they accountable to anyone, or...?

> > Whatever--it still was a weak ending, as bad as SUPERMAN's.
>
> True. The book was a little better, more darker and sinister.

How did the book end?

> > Yeah, I was wondering what the deal was with that, too. What purpose
> > did it serve to go after him during the Quidditch match, for
> > example? If they wanted his memories so bad, why not just soul-suck
> > him right off? (especially since they were pretty much a law onto
> > themselves.)
>
> Dumbledore doesn't let them on the grounds. Potter got far enough away so they could try a
> quick grab.

Heh--so Dumbledore's power has atmospheric limits, eh? :).

C.
**

deering24@mindspring.com wrote:
> What didn't make sense to me was why it took Sirius _so_ long to do
> what he came to do.

Maybe there were a bunch of rakes on the grounds, even see the Witness
Protection Program episode of the Simpsons?

> As well, the Dementors must have taken hunting
> lessons from the Nazgul given it took them a whole freakin' school
> year to finally find SB--and not because they did much to flush him
> out.
>

The Dementors seemed pretty dumb to me.  "Ah, there's my prey.  I'll
slowly glide over to it in full view."

> Yeah, I was wondering what the deal was with that, too. What purpose
> did it serve to go after him during the Quidditch match, for
> example?

It put a quick end to another dull-as-dishwater Quidditch match scene,
that's why.

> If they wanted his memories so bad, why not just soul-suck
> him right off? (especially since they were pretty much a law onto
> themselves.)
>

I think these Dementor guys are the kind of thing that works better in a
novel than onscreen.

> Eh. Smarter direction; some really eerie moments and good
> performances; but the plot was really slack and the pacing was
> deadly. Better than the first two, but still not quite good enough.

Well, I don't expect LotR or even Neverending Story, but it's pretty
good fantasy.

--
"I like the cover:  'DON'T PANIC.'  It's the first sensible thing I've
heard all day."
--Arthur Dent

Grand Inquisitor
http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=Oost

~consul wrote:

> In the book, they have a problem probing or figureing out non-human forms. SIrius was
> supposedly in wolf form all the time out. It is also how he survived Askaban and how he
> escaped.

See, they needed to make that clearer in the movie. The Dementors
were presented as fairly powerful, and I don't recall anyone
mentioning they couldn't suss out humans that had transformed into
animals. In fact, I don't remember them saying how Sirius escaped in
the first place--unless I missed something somewhere...?

>
> > How did the book end?
>
> I mean that they focus more on more scary wording and text description. Dementors don't
> just make you hear bad things, you sort of live the pain. Like in the movie, it seems that
> Harry just passes out when Dementors face him, but in the book, it's more like he passes
> out from the excrutiating cry your mommas name shite in yer pants pain.


Got it. That would have been tough to make visual--though David
Cronenberg probably would have come up with something fierce--g!


> And also, we find out that while the Dememtors are guards at the Azkaban Prison, and
> report to the Ministry of Magic, they don't necessarily 'work' for the Ministry and the
> good of Magic.

Ah. So they are the equivalent of hiring the Hell's Angels to work
concert security. :) Thanks!

C.
**

Grand Inquisitor wrote:
>
>
> Maybe there were a bunch of rakes on the grounds, even see the Witness
> Protection Program episode of the Simpsons?

Only part of it--g!

> The Dementors seemed pretty dumb to me.  "Ah, there's my prey.  I'll
> slowly glide over to it in full view."

I would imagine they bank heavily on their fearsome reputation to
petrify a quarry with fear--g! They moved pretty fast during that
Quidditch match, though.


> It put a quick end to another dull-as-dishwater Quidditch match scene,
> that's why.

I'll give Cuaron and Kloves high props for that, for sure...


> I think these Dementor guys are the kind of thing that works better in a
> novel than onscreen.

They just needed to make the Dementors' motivations a bit clearer.

C.
**

deering24@mindspring.com wrote:
>>I think these Dementor guys are the kind of thing that works better in a
>>novel than onscreen.
>
>
> They just needed to make the Dementors' motivations a bit clearer.
>
> C.
> **

They're upset because they look so much like a certain LotR bunch....

--
"I like the cover:  'DON'T PANIC.'  It's the first sensible thing I've
heard all day."
--Arthur Dent

Grand Inquisitor
http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=Oost

"~consul" <consul@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com> wrote in message
news:ca873r$4io$1@gist.usc.edu...
> deering24@mindspring.com wrote:
> > ~consul wrote:
> >>He didn't know where Peter the rat was, nor was he out to do 'anything'.
He was just
> >>hiding out.
> > Why Hogwarts? Did he want to talk to Harry, or was that just
> > incidental?
>
> He's Harry's godfather, he's accused leading the murderer to them and
giving them up.
> Hogwarts was the best place for him growing up. He's got no place else to
go really.

SPOILER for the book:
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

In the book, it seemed much clearer.  It wasn't Hogwarts he went to, it was
the Shrieking Shack.  The Shrieking Shack has the reputation as the most
haunted place in the magical world, and no one ever goes there.  But in
reality, when Sirius was a student at Hogwarts, he was best friends with
Harry's father, Lupin (the dark arts teacher), and Peter (the rat).  They
found the underground passage to the old building and did things to make
everyone think it was haunted (magical lights, moaning sounds, mysterious
animals, etc).  So it was a safe place to hide out, since no one would look
there.  Almost none of this came out in the movie, unless I missed it.
Also, the fact that it was near his god-son, Harry, made it even more
attractive.

- Bob

Grand Inquisitor wrote:
>
> They're upset because they look so much like a certain LotR bunch....

And they are all annoyed because they aren't as scary as the Grim
Reaper in THE FRIGHTENERS--g!

C.
**

Robert Gaimari wrote:
>
> SPOILER for the book:
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> In the book, it seemed much clearer.  It wasn't Hogwarts he went to, it was
> the Shrieking Shack.  The Shrieking Shack has the reputation as the most
> haunted place in the magical world, and no one ever goes there.  But in
> reality, when Sirius was a student at Hogwarts, he was best friends with
> Harry's father, Lupin (the dark arts teacher), and Peter (the rat).  They
> found the underground passage to the old building and did things to make
> everyone think it was haunted (magical lights, moaning sounds, mysterious
> animals, etc).  So it was a safe place to hide out, since no one would look
> there.  Almost none of this came out in the movie, unless I missed it.

No, it didn't--g! They didn't say what the deal was with the
Shrieking Shack and they didn't make it clear that was where Sirius
was hiding, which would have helped. Thanks!


C.
**

deering24@mindspring.com wrote:

>
> Grand Inquisitor wrote:
>
>>They're upset because they look so much like a certain LotR bunch....
>
>
> And they are all annoyed because they aren't as scary as the Grim
> Reaper in THE FRIGHTENERS--g!

Yes, but not much is scary in movies.  Hitchcock could make an ordinary
person sitting on a train scary, if he looked at you the right way.

--
You think you've figured me out but you haven't.  ;-)

Grand Inquisitor
http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=Oost

In article <40C7DB99.E61D0783@mindspring.com>, deering24@mindspring.com
wrote:

> Ah. So they are the equivalent of hiring the Hell's Angels to work
> concert security. :) Thanks!

That's interesting imagery!

Van
--
Van Bagnol / v b a g n o l at earthlink dot net / c r l at bagnol dot com
...enjoys - Theatre / Windsurfing / Skydiving / Mountain Biking
...feels - "Parang lumalakad ako sa loob ng paniginip"
...thinks - "An Error is Not a Mistake ... Unless You Refuse to Correct It"

Van Bagnol wrote:
>
> In article <40C7DB99.E61D0783@mindspring.com>, deering24@mindspring.com
> wrote:
>
> > Ah. So they are the equivalent of hiring the Hell's Angels to work
> > concert security. :) Thanks!
>
> That's interesting imagery!

One suspects the Rolling Stones never want to imagine that
particular bad scene again. :)

C.
**