🚀 go-pugleaf

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:29:28 GMT, b@man.com (bman) wrote:

>
>The nurses are going on strike again should be bloody illegal.
>
>They claim they are paid more overseas, but isn't that true for every other
>job in the country?
>
>They claim there is a shortage of nurses which is bollocks. Radio therapists
>was a good example of a true shortage, hospitals had to cut back on services
>because they couldn't get enough staff. For regular nursing jobs there may
>be a few open jobs here and there but how many wards have had to close
>because they couldn't be staffed? None.
>
>The health system is short of money. They last thing they need to do is
>waste it on pay rises for greedy nurses.

Or, indeed, waste*my* money on obscene salaries for incompetent
"golden parachute" chief executives and their like and the tiers upon
tiers of middle management sucking up to them.

Obscene is the only appropriate word for it.

New Zealand, where the inmates are in charge of the asylum.

Newsman

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:29:28 GMT, b@man.com (bman) said:

>
>The nurses are going on strike again should be bloody illegal.

Thank goodness it isn't.

>
>The health system is short of money. They last thing they need to do is
>waste it on pay rises for greedy nurses.

Greedy nurses eh?



-------
Southern trees bear a strange fruit,
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root,
Black body swinging in the Southern breeze,
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.

--"Strange Fruit"- Billie Holiday

Redbaiter <redbaiter@nomail.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.16aed3776b947bf2989682@news.xtra.co.nz>...
[msge snipped]

> Relatively senior health workers are getting paid $US32 per
> hour in Omaha (thats roughly $75 NZ) with a $US2000 signing
> on bonus.

A friend [kiwi nurse] of a friend was getting US$32 an hour in San
Francisco and that was back in the mid-90's.

Sign on bonuses for RN's of US$5,000 or more is common in major
cities.
Even LVN's and CNA's are now receiving sign-on bonuses though much
less.

Ultimately, someone has to pay for this - the medical insurance
companies who pass it on to those that can afford to buy medical
insurance.  As the rates increase, more and more cannot afford even
basic insurance.

Cath

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:29:28 GMT, b@man.com (bman) wrote:

>
>The nurses are going on strike again should be bloody illegal.
>
>They claim they are paid more overseas, but isn't that true for every other
>job in the country?
>
>They claim there is a shortage of nurses which is bollocks. Radio therapists
>was a good example of a true shortage, hospitals had to cut back on services
>because they couldn't get enough staff. For regular nursing jobs there may
>be a few open jobs here and there but how many wards have had to close
>because they couldn't be staffed? None.
>

Plenty of times wards have closed because of shortages of nursing
staff, and hospitals have closed to admissions for the same reason.
It happens every day

There is a severe shortage of nursing staff in NZ

And who can blame them, being paid $38k tops after many years
experience.


It's a profession, needs to be seen as such, not a 'job for the girls'


>The health system is short of money. They last thing they need to do is
>waste it on pay rises for greedy nurses.

Recognition of just reward for important jobs seems to be de rigeur in
most other professions.  The police are paid a good deal more than
nurses from the time of graduation, so are many other para health
professionals.


It's time.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained
by stupidity."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:36:00 +1300, Redbaiter <redbaiter@nomail.com>
wrote:

>In article <3c43c8bb.1545026@news.paradise.net.nz>,

>> Or, indeed, waste*my* money on obscene salaries for incompetent
>> "golden parachute" chief executives and their like and the tiers upon
>> tiers of middle management sucking up to them.
>>
>> Obscene is the only appropriate word for it.
>>
>> New Zealand, where the inmates are in charge of the asylum.
>>
>> Newsman
>>
>
>The nurses issue is just another example of financial
>reality catching up with the blinkered leftists who think
>NZers somehow deserve a "real economy" standard of living.

>Trying to keep health costs low merely to appease a lazy and
>unproductive society is pissing into the wind, as the end
>result will plainly be, when health workers are in demand
>all over the world, no quality health care at all in NZ.
>
>--
>Redbaiter

Peter Dady said it best on the radio today.  They have no problem
understanding the market economy when it comes to administrators in
health, no problem understanding the drives of the market when it
comes to paying politicians, no problem when it comes to paying
'consultants'.  The oft repeated 'pay peanuts and you get monkeys'


There is just some sort of mental block that doesn't get it when
highly trained health professionals decide to do what they were told
they could do, and realise the financial benefits of their education,
and go where the money is.  Health funders and employers just seem
unable to grasp it at that point, the highly trained health
professionals get called 'greedy' and labelled disloyal, when they
give up working in a dysfunctional and poorly paid, highly stressed
health system...for one that treats them better.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained
by stupidity."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz (Kerry) wrote in <3c440636.3136503
@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz>:
..
>
>There is just some sort of mental block that doesn't get it when
>highly trained health professionals decide to do what they were told
>they could do, and realise the financial benefits of their education,
>and go where the money is.  Health funders and employers just seem
>unable to grasp it at that point, the highly trained health
>professionals get called 'greedy' and labelled disloyal, when they
>give up working in a dysfunctional and poorly paid, highly stressed
>health system...for one that treats them better.

Bollocks.

I am not calling nurses greedy or disloyal for working overseas or moving
out of nursing to another job. If they want to do that its fine with me and
I don't think anyone can complain.

It is greedy for nurses to go on strike when they are already paid above
average wages and there is no shortage of nurses in Chch.

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:51:09 GMT, b@man.com (bman) wrote:

>kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz (Kerry) wrote in <3c440636.3136503

>I am not calling nurses greedy or disloyal for working overseas or moving
>out of nursing to another job. If they want to do that its fine with me and
>I don't think anyone can complain.
>
>It is greedy for nurses to go on strike when they are already paid above
>average wages and there is no shortage of nurses in Chch.
>

So if there is no shortage of nurses in Christchurch, the strike will
have no effect.

Being paid 'above average' wages does not mean one is recompensed
fairly for one's skills and education.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained
by stupidity."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THere most certainly IS a shortage of Nurses in Christchurch.

bman wrote:
>
> kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz (Kerry) wrote in <3c440636.3136503
> @news.wlg.ihug.co.nz>:
> ...
> >
> >There is just some sort of mental block that doesn't get it when
> >highly trained health professionals decide to do what they were told
> >they could do, and realise the financial benefits of their education,
> >and go where the money is.  Health funders and employers just seem
> >unable to grasp it at that point, the highly trained health
> >professionals get called 'greedy' and labelled disloyal, when they
> >give up working in a dysfunctional and poorly paid, highly stressed
> >health system...for one that treats them better.
>
> Bollocks.
>
> I am not calling nurses greedy or disloyal for working overseas or moving
> out of nursing to another job. If they want to do that its fine with me and
> I don't think anyone can complain.
>
> It is greedy for nurses to go on strike when they are already paid above
> average wages and there is no shortage of nurses in Chch.

On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:22:52 +1300, "E. Scrooge"
<e.scrooge@xfree.co.nx (z replaces x)> wrote:

>Meanwhile no bastard gives a stuff about treating the poor patients.  These
>poor buggers can't go on strike for a week, as their suffering will still be
>with them.

I think you'll find that it is precisely because of an inability to
care for patients in appropriate ways that nurses are striking.  Poor
pay and work conditions leads to shortages of staff, overload, and
endangers patients.  Nurses know this.


>Great how the so called caring nurses can piss off on strike, when
>government has already taken notice of the problem.  Until the bastards
>learn how to treat the patients better while negotiating for better working
>conditions, the black mailing nurses that are using the safety of the
>patients to get what they want, should get fuck all.  What they actually
>need, is a damn good kick up the arse for risking the lives of their
>patients.


But they don't risk the lives of their patients

Management and non union staff cover.  It is managements problem, they
guarantee the safety of patients.  It's what they are paid for.


I'm afraid employees have the right to strike.  Be they nurses,
policepersons, firepersons or teachers.

It's a right.  It is used to improve work conditions.  Work conditions
and pay for nurses are dreadful.  They are exercising their right to
protest for improved conditions.  For themselves and their patients.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained
by stupidity."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:51:09 GMT, b@man.com (bman) wrote:


>It is greedy for nurses to go on strike when they are already paid above
>average wages and there is no shortage of nurses in Chch.
>


 There is no shortage of CEO's or directors but they are always
getting higher anf higher rewards for their pathetic ciontributions
and fort their destruction of assetts,

It is time that the people who do the REAL work got higher wages - and
the  seat warmers and paper shuflers got much much less


Patrick

 Those who think Nurses are greedy have no  conception of their
crtical importance to the health system.

Our nurses   MUST get higher wages and better conditiions.

Their diligence and devotion to the care of  patients demands it


Patrick

In article <cdf62f95.0201151003.d4853e5@posting.google.com>, "Cath"
<texan@texas.usa.com> wrote:

> Redbaiter <redbaiter@nomail.com> wrote in message
> news:<MPG.16aed3776b947bf2989682@news.xtra.co.nz>... [msge snipped]
>
>> Relatively senior health workers are getting paid $US32 per hour in
>> Omaha (thats roughly $75 NZ) with a $US2000 signing on bonus.
>
> A friend [kiwi nurse] of a friend was getting US$32 an hour in San
> Francisco and that was back in the mid-90's.
>
> Sign on bonuses for RN's of US$5,000 or more is common in major cities.
> Even LVN's and CNA's are now receiving sign-on bonuses though much less.
>
> Ultimately, someone has to pay for this - the medical insurance
> companies who pass it on to those that can afford to buy medical
> insurance.  As the rates increase, more and more cannot afford even
> basic insurance.
>
> Cath

Yes, American nurses can get US$32 per hour salary for an 8 hour day, and
work 12 to sixteen hours because there aren't enough to go around.  They
can be swamped by unensured patients with serious problems that they have
to treat with a bandaid and a slow trip to the one county hospital that
accepts them.  They can hope someday to buy a small house in a not to
crimy area for US$300,000 to $400,000 and wonder what they will do with
no retirement or medical care when they get old.  They can work for
hospitals that don't accept their own medical insurance.  That US$5000
sign up bonus doesn't cover the US$30,000 it takes to just to move here.
A cheap apartment in Bakersfield California (flat and dusty, where
nothing natural grows) goes for US$1000 per month.  They can get kicked
around by patients, administrators and doctors.  It's no wonder we can't
keep any around in our country.  Believe me, America is no heaven for
nurses.

Mark

In nz.politics Patrick Dunford <a47xxy@yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
> In article <3c440636.3136503@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz> in newsgroup
> nz.politics on Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:40:56 GMT,
> Kerry(kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz) said...
> snip
>> Peter Dady said it best on the radio today.  They have no problem
>> understanding the market economy when it comes to administrators in
>> health, no problem understanding the drives of the market when it
>> comes to paying politicians, no problem when it comes to paying
>> 'consultants'.  The oft repeated 'pay peanuts and you get monkeys'

> Dady sounded like another politician or union whinger.

> If he was running the hospital they would have no managers, no computer
> systems blah blah blah. And of course the management would be run down.

If the current management was doing a good job this whole situation
wouldn't have occured. Managers are often incompetent idiots who
really have no idea how to run businesses.

In nz.politics Greg <greg@home.com> wrote:

>> > The health system is short of money. They last thing they need to do is
>> > waste it on pay rises for greedy nurses.
>>
>> Base pay <$20 hour is OK is it?

> 19 buks an hour? before xtras should be more than enough ... good god ....
> some people earn 8 buks an hour and many of those work in a dangerous job

Name one dangerous job that pays $8/hour. Most jobs I know of that
pay that amount don't require any formal training. Many nurses have
degrees now and all have years of training. This, along with the
importance of their position should be recognised in their wages.

Redbaiter <redbaiter@nomail.com> wrote in <MPG.16aed3776b947bf2989682
@news.xtra.co.nz>:

>
>Relatively senior health workers are getting paid $US32 per
>hour in Omaha (thats roughly $75 NZ) with a $US2000 signing
>on bonus.
>
>Why would anyone in their right mind stay in NZ and deal
>with wages around one third of that, plus the irritation of
>

Senior management in the US can expect $200,000 to $20million a year. By
your logic senior management in NZ should get priority in any pay rises.

kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz (Kerry) wrote in
<3c440b74.4477959@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz>:

>So if there is no shortage of nurses in Christchurch, the strike will
>have no effect.
>

Of course if there is a strike there is a shortage.

Its a bit like the wharfies in the old days. They know they have an
important job, they kept going on strike and as a result got excellent
wages.


>Being paid 'above average' wages does not mean one is recompensed
>fairly for one's skills and education.

What skills are they again? Out of all the people who go to tech, who earns
more than nurses?

On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:12:11 +1300, "Bob Howard" <no@spam.none.com>
wrote:

>That is totally unfair. Nurses used to be well paid 30 years ago. They have
>seen their incomes eroded since then. They might have a calling to care for
>people but that doesn't mean society should take a loan of them. They
>deserve a rate of pay commensurate with other skilled workers. They won't
>get pay rises if they don't stand up for themselves.

	Precisely.

	Turn to the Dark Side, Bob... :)

>An acquiescent nursing workforce would suit Annette King.

	Or any government seeking to minimise the health budget :(

--
Idiot/Savant                    http://pages.quicksilver.net.nz/mfn-0056
"My country, right or wrong" is wrong.

"Bob Howard" <no@spam.none.com> wrote in <a229e5$ega$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>:

>That is totally unfair. Nurses used to be well paid 30 years ago. They
>have seen their incomes eroded since then. They might have a calling to
>care for people but that doesn't mean society should take a loan of
>them.

I agree that they should be paid their true value.

>They deserve a rate of pay commensurate with other skilled
>workers.

Exactly. What other workers from Tech get paid more than nurses?

>They won't get pay rises if they don't stand up for themselves.

That isn't true. Look at the pay rises that IT workers scored over the last
few years. They didn't go on strike, they got a pay rise because there was a
lack of them. If the hospital put an ad in the paper for a nurse position
and couldn't get any replies, that is a good justification for a pay rise.

However nurses appear to be trying to get pay rises by using union muscle.
They know their strikes are disruptive, its just like the wharfies 20 years
ago.

Nurses already earn above average wages. A 30 year old nurse with 10 years
of experience is paid $40k, while a doctor of the similar age is paid $50-
60k. Do you really think the nurse should be paid much more?

In article <3c43c8bb.1545026@news.paradise.net.nz>,
news.man@paridyse.not.nx says...
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:29:28 GMT, b@man.com (bman) wrote:
>
> >
> >The nurses are going on strike again should be bloody illegal.
> >
> >They claim they are paid more overseas, but isn't that true for every other
> >job in the country?
> >
> >They claim there is a shortage of nurses which is bollocks. Radio therapists
> >was a good example of a true shortage, hospitals had to cut back on services
> >because they couldn't get enough staff. For regular nursing jobs there may
> >be a few open jobs here and there but how many wards have had to close
> >because they couldn't be staffed? None.
> >
> >The health system is short of money. They last thing they need to do is
> >waste it on pay rises for greedy nurses.
>
> Or, indeed, waste*my* money on obscene salaries for incompetent
> "golden parachute" chief executives and their like and the tiers upon
> tiers of middle management sucking up to them.
>
> Obscene is the only appropriate word for it.
>
> New Zealand, where the inmates are in charge of the asylum.
>
> Newsman
>

The nurses issue is just another example of financial
reality catching up with the blinkered leftists who think
NZers somehow deserve a "real economy" standard of living.

Unaffordable health care is just one of the many issues that
will continue to remind befuddled NZers of how, like most
commie outposts, their on the slow but sure slippery slope
to economic oblivion.

Trying to keep health costs low merely to appease a lazy and
unproductive society is pissing into the wind, as the end
result will plainly be, when health workers are in demand
all over the world, no quality health care at all in NZ.

--
Redbaiter
In the leftist lexicon, the lowest of the low

On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:12:11 +1300, "Bob Howard" <no@spam.none.com>
wrote:

>That is totally unfair. Nurses used to be well paid 30 years ago. They have
>seen their incomes eroded since then. They might have a calling to care for
>people but that doesn't mean society should take a loan of them. They
>deserve a rate of pay commensurate with other skilled workers.

An enrolled nurse earned $2500 per year in 1971, as did a computer
programmer.

Jason M

In article <3c440636.3136503@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz>,
kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz says...
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:36:00 +1300, Redbaiter <redbaiter@nomail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <3c43c8bb.1545026@news.paradise.net.nz>,
>
> >> Or, indeed, waste*my* money on obscene salaries for incompetent
> >> "golden parachute" chief executives and their like and the tiers upon
> >> tiers of middle management sucking up to them.
> >>
> >> Obscene is the only appropriate word for it.
> >>
> >> New Zealand, where the inmates are in charge of the asylum.
> >>
> >> Newsman
> >>
> >
> >The nurses issue is just another example of financial
> >reality catching up with the blinkered leftists who think
> >NZers somehow deserve a "real economy" standard of living.
>
> >Trying to keep health costs low merely to appease a lazy and
> >unproductive society is pissing into the wind, as the end
> >result will plainly be, when health workers are in demand
> >all over the world, no quality health care at all in NZ.
> >
> >--
> >Redbaiter
>
> Peter Dady said it best on the radio today.  They have no problem
> understanding the market economy when it comes to administrators in
> health, no problem understanding the drives of the market when it
> comes to paying politicians, no problem when it comes to paying
> 'consultants'.  The oft repeated 'pay peanuts and you get monkeys'
>
>
> There is just some sort of mental block that doesn't get it when
> highly trained health professionals decide to do what they were told
> they could do, and realise the financial benefits of their education,
> and go where the money is.  Health funders and employers just seem
> unable to grasp it at that point, the highly trained health
> professionals get called 'greedy' and labelled disloyal, when they
> give up working in a dysfunctional and poorly paid, highly stressed
> health system...for one that treats them better.
>

Relatively senior health workers are getting paid $US32 per
hour in Omaha (thats roughly $75 NZ) with a $US2000 signing
on bonus.

Why would anyone in their right mind stay in NZ and deal
with wages around one third of that, plus the irritation of
a collapsing system, (let alone the even more annoying maori
cultural safety bullshit) when they can go elsewhere.

At least the nurses in Omaha are appreciated, and
not labelled as greedy by non-productive parasites who
whistled all winter.

--
Redbaiter
In the leftist lexicon, the lowest of the low

"Kerry" <kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c440636.3136503@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz...
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:36:00 +1300, Redbaiter <redbaiter@nomail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <3c43c8bb.1545026@news.paradise.net.nz>,
>
> >> Or, indeed, waste*my* money on obscene salaries for incompetent
> >> "golden parachute" chief executives and their like and the tiers upon
> >> tiers of middle management sucking up to them.
> >>
> >> Obscene is the only appropriate word for it.
> >>
> >> New Zealand, where the inmates are in charge of the asylum.
> >>
> >> Newsman
> >>
> >
> >The nurses issue is just another example of financial
> >reality catching up with the blinkered leftists who think
> >NZers somehow deserve a "real economy" standard of living.
>
> >Trying to keep health costs low merely to appease a lazy and
> >unproductive society is pissing into the wind, as the end
> >result will plainly be, when health workers are in demand
> >all over the world, no quality health care at all in NZ.
> >
> >--
> >Redbaiter
>
> Peter Dady said it best on the radio today.  They have no problem
> understanding the market economy when it comes to administrators in
> health, no problem understanding the drives of the market when it
> comes to paying politicians, no problem when it comes to paying
> 'consultants'.  The oft repeated 'pay peanuts and you get monkeys'
>
>
> There is just some sort of mental block that doesn't get it when
> highly trained health professionals decide to do what they were told
> they could do, and realise the financial benefits of their education,
> and go where the money is.  Health funders and employers just seem
> unable to grasp it at that point, the highly trained health
> professionals get called 'greedy' and labelled disloyal, when they
> give up working in a dysfunctional and poorly paid, highly stressed
> health system...for one that treats them better.

Meanwhile no bastard gives a stuff about treating the poor patients.  These
poor buggers can't go on strike for a week, as their suffering will still be
with them.
Great how the so called caring nurses can piss off on strike, when
government has already taken notice of the problem.  Until the bastards
learn how to treat the patients better while negotiating for better working
conditions, the black mailing nurses that are using the safety of the
patients to get what they want, should get fuck all.  What they actually
need, is a damn good kick up the arse for risking the lives of their
patients.

E. Scrooge

"T A R T" <invisibl@eexxttrraa.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c43d857.45567884@news.xtra.co.nz...
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:29:28 GMT, b@man.com (bman) said:
>
> >
> >The nurses are going on strike again should be bloody illegal.
>
> Thank goodness it isn't.

It hardly gives much time to organise some decent care for the sick
patients.  Of course not being in Christchurch, we can laugh it off, and let
the poor sods survive as best as they can.  Any patient that suffers more
than they should thanks to the nurses strike, must only have themselves to
blame for living and dieing in Christchurch.  The answer must be, for anyone
that expects some decent health care in Christchurch, might as well piss off
to another part of the country that treats their patients a damn sight
better.  Than simply using the poor sods as no more than pawns in a game of
blackmail.

E. Scrooge

"Kerry" <kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c44204a.9813012@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz...
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:22:52 +1300, "E. Scrooge"
> <e.scrooge@xfree.co.nx (z replaces x)> wrote:
>
> >Meanwhile no bastard gives a stuff about treating the poor patients.
These
> >poor buggers can't go on strike for a week, as their suffering will still
be
> >with them.
>
> I think you'll find that it is precisely because of an inability to
> care for patients in appropriate ways that nurses are striking.  Poor
> pay and work conditions leads to shortages of staff, overload, and
> endangers patients.  Nurses know this.
>
>
> >Great how the so called caring nurses can piss off on strike, when
> >government has already taken notice of the problem.  Until the bastards
> >learn how to treat the patients better while negotiating for better
working
> >conditions, the black mailing nurses that are using the safety of the
> >patients to get what they want, should get fuck all.  What they actually
> >need, is a damn good kick up the arse for risking the lives of their
> >patients.
>
>
> But they don't risk the lives of their patients
>
> Management and non union staff cover.  It is managements problem, they
> guarantee the safety of patients.  It's what they are paid for.
>
>
> I'm afraid employees have the right to strike.  Be they nurses,
> policepersons, firepersons or teachers.
>
> It's a right.  It is used to improve work conditions.  Work conditions
> and pay for nurses are dreadful.  They are exercising their right to
> protest for improved conditions.  For themselves and their patients.

It would also be a fair right to at least give the hospitals enough time to
sort out some care for the patients in the meantime.
The blackmailers don't give a shit if decent care can be properly organised
for the patients or not.  Also more than likely some nurses from Otago and
other parts of the country are once again expected to do more work yet again
while these sad pricks have yet another week off.
As well as the patients, they couldn't even give a shit for the already
overworked nurses from other areas that will have no choice but to fill in
for these striking blackmailing bastards, as they know just how important
the needs of the sick are despite their own list of complaints.  The recent
strike was just bearable with plenty of understanding towards the nurses of
Christchurch.  But this news of yet another strike already, after they've
already been noticed, is just a bit all too much.
Going on strike is hardly doing their suffering patients any great favours,
but then they obviously don't give a stuff about them anyway.  If the nurses
are suffering now, give the patients some whips to really make the bastards
suffer just as much as a lot of them are.  Then the nurses will know what
it's like to suffer, as they suffer from some real pain like many of their
patients are each day.  Many a patient would like to suffer like the nurses
do (in the wallet) instead of the way in which they are now.

E. Scrooge

In article <Xns9197BD051AE96nospam@203.96.92.12> in newsgroup nz.general
on Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:29:28 GMT, bman(b@man.com) said...
>
> The nurses are going on strike again should be bloody illegal.
>
> They claim they are paid more overseas, but isn't that true for every other
> job in the country?
>
> They claim there is a shortage of nurses which is bollocks.

It is true actually. There are not enough staff in the hospitals for them
to all work normal hours. They have to work overtime a lot.

> Radio therapists
> was a good example of a true shortage, hospitals had to cut back on services
> because they couldn't get enough staff. For regular nursing jobs there may
> be a few open jobs here and there but how many wards have had to close
> because they couldn't be staffed? None.

> The health system is short of money. They last thing they need to do is
> waste it on pay rises for greedy nurses.

Base pay <$20 hour is OK is it?

In article <3c440636.3136503@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz> in newsgroup
nz.politics on Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:40:56 GMT,
Kerry(kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz) said...
snip
> Peter Dady said it best on the radio today.  They have no problem
> understanding the market economy when it comes to administrators in
> health, no problem understanding the drives of the market when it
> comes to paying politicians, no problem when it comes to paying
> 'consultants'.  The oft repeated 'pay peanuts and you get monkeys'

Dady sounded like another politician or union whinger.

If he was running the hospital they would have no managers, no computer
systems blah blah blah. And of course the management would be run down.

Kerry <kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c440b74.4477959@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz...
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:51:09 GMT, b@man.com (bman) wrote:
>
> >kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz (Kerry) wrote in <3c440636.3136503
>
> >I am not calling nurses greedy or disloyal for working overseas or moving
> >out of nursing to another job. If they want to do that its fine with me
and
> >I don't think anyone can complain.
> >
> >It is greedy for nurses to go on strike when they are already paid above
> >average wages and there is no shortage of nurses in Chch.
> >
>
> So if there is no shortage of nurses in Christchurch, the strike will
> have no effect.
>
> Being paid 'above average' wages does not mean one is recompensed
> fairly for one's skills and education.
>
simply to be a nurse does not mean one actually has skill kerry .. it simply
means they passed exams ..the amount of docs i have seen make cock ups is
obscene.....breastie cancer springs to mind

> > The health system is short of money. They last thing they need to do is
> > waste it on pay rises for greedy nurses.
>
> Base pay <$20 hour is OK is it?

19 buks an hour? before xtras should be more than enough ... good god ....
some people earn 8 buks an hour and many of those work in a dangerous job
..

Kerry <kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz> wrote in message

> I'm afraid employees have the right to strike.  Be they nurses,
> policepersons, firepersons or teachers.

Actually, IIRC, the police don't.

- Dave
--
Lowering the tone of Usenet since 1997...
"About affection nothingness or erring address,
please carrying back massage into address
transmitter" - Back of an envelope from foreign parts.

"E. Scrooge" <e.scrooge@xfree.co.nx (z replaces x)> wrote in message
news:a219ar$jgi$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
> It would also be a fair right to at least give the hospitals enough time
to
> sort out some care for the patients in the meantime.
> The blackmailers don't give a shit if decent care can be properly
organised
> for the patients or not.  Also more than likely some nurses from Otago and
> other parts of the country are once again expected to do more work yet
again
> while these sad pricks have yet another week off.
> As well as the patients, they couldn't even give a shit for the already
> overworked nurses from other areas that will have no choice but to fill in
> for these striking blackmailing bastards, as they know just how important
> the needs of the sick are despite their own list of complaints.  The
recent
> strike was just bearable with plenty of understanding towards the nurses
of
> Christchurch.  But this news of yet another strike already, after they've
> already been noticed, is just a bit all too much.
> Going on strike is hardly doing their suffering patients any great
favours,
> but then they obviously don't give a stuff about them anyway.  If the
nurses
> are suffering now, give the patients some whips to really make the
bastards
> suffer just as much as a lot of them are.  Then the nurses will know what
> it's like to suffer, as they suffer from some real pain like many of their
> patients are each day.  Many a patient would like to suffer like the
nurses
> do (in the wallet) instead of the way in which they are now.

Would you rather the nurses did not have the right to withdraw their labour?

They wouldn't get a pay rise at all without it - think about the rapacious
pack of middle-management idiots they are working for.

"Greg" <greg@home.com> wrote in message
news:tQZ08.593$na5.82184@news.xtra.co.nz...
>
> > > The health system is short of money. They last thing they need to do
is
> > > waste it on pay rises for greedy nurses.
> >
> > Base pay <$20 hour is OK is it?
>
> 19 buks an hour? before xtras should be more than enough ... good god ....
> some people earn 8 buks an hour and many of those work in a dangerous job
> ...

Come on, Greg - 20 an hour is bugger all, really - especially when you
consider that nursing IS a dangerous job, which requires high levels of
skill and knowledge.

They are the patient interface - U R lucky to see a doctor for 10 minutes a
day - and have to deal with absolutely everything.

Compare those salaries with their administrative bosses - who know nothing,
and do less.

In article <Xns9197BD051AE96nospam@203.96.92.12>, b@man.com (bman)
wrote:

> The nurses are going on strike again should be bloody illegal.
>
> They claim they are paid more overseas, but isn't that true for every other
> job in the country?

Some, and these people are leaving too.

>
> They claim there is a shortage of nurses which is bollocks. Radio therapists
> was a good example of a true shortage, hospitals had to cut back on services
> because they couldn't get enough staff. For regular nursing jobs there may
> be a few open jobs here and there but how many wards have had to close
> because they couldn't be staffed? None.

Oh, then what is the cantebury health board doing ?

>
> The health system is short of money. They last thing they need to do is
> waste it on pay rises for greedy nurses.

Yea, we should waste it on a bank we don't need, an airline that could
have cost hundreds of million less to bail out, etc.

"Kerry" <kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c440005.1551086@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz...
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:29:28 GMT, b@man.com (bman) wrote:
>
> >
> >The nurses are going on strike again should be bloody illegal.
> >
> >They claim they are paid more overseas, but isn't that true for every
other
> >job in the country?
> >
> >They claim there is a shortage of nurses which is bollocks. Radio
therapists
> >was a good example of a true shortage, hospitals had to cut back on
services
> >because they couldn't get enough staff. For regular nursing jobs there
may
> >be a few open jobs here and there but how many wards have had to close
> >because they couldn't be staffed? None.
> >
>
> Plenty of times wards have closed because of shortages of nursing
> staff, and hospitals have closed to admissions for the same reason.
> It happens every day
>
> There is a severe shortage of nursing staff in NZ
>
> And who can blame them, being paid $38k tops after many years
> experience.
>
>
> It's a profession, needs to be seen as such, not a 'job for the girls'
>
>
> >The health system is short of money. They last thing they need to do is
> >waste it on pay rises for greedy nurses.
>
> Recognition of just reward for important jobs seems to be de rigeur in
> most other professions.  The police are paid a good deal more than
> nurses from the time of graduation, so are many other para health
> professionals.
>
>
> It's time.
>
Couldn't agree more.  They deserve to be paid well.  It will also mean that
we won't have so many leaving NZ, or leaving the profession, which will in
turn mean more experiencesd capable nurses and thus better care.
It is essential that nurses are recognised as skilled professionals and paid
accordingly.

"Patrick Dunford" <a47xxy@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:MPG.16af1658a9fb75b6989c47@news.clear.net.nz...
> In article <Xns9197BD051AE96nospam@203.96.92.12> in newsgroup nz.general
> on Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:29:28 GMT, bman(b@man.com) said...
> >
> > The nurses are going on strike again should be bloody illegal.
> >
> > They claim they are paid more overseas, but isn't that true for every
other
> > job in the country?
> >
> > They claim there is a shortage of nurses which is bollocks.
>
> It is true actually. There are not enough staff in the hospitals for them
> to all work normal hours. They have to work overtime a lot.

Yes which means that they are tired, which puts patients at risk.

"Patrick FitzGerald" <patrick.f@netaccess.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c445eb8.1777798@news.netaccess.co.nz...
>
>
>  Those who think Nurses are greedy have no  conception of their
> crtical importance to the health system.
>
> Our nurses   MUST get higher wages and better conditiions.
>
> Their diligence and devotion to the care of  patients demands it
>
>
> Patrick

Well said.

"Kerry" <kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c440636.3136503@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz...

SNIP

I do have to smile when I think of nurses running around with shit filled
bed pans, cleaning horrible operation wounds and holding a pan while a
patient vomits into it only doing it for the money.


Bob Howard.

"Patrick FitzGerald" <patrick.f@netaccess.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c445eb8.1777798@news.netaccess.co.nz...
>
>
>  Those who think Nurses are greedy have no  conception of their
> crtical importance to the health system.
>
> Our nurses   MUST get higher wages and better conditiions.
>
> Their diligence and devotion to the care of  patients demands it
>
> Patrick

They sure know how to show it by going on strike at such short notice,
considering the large number of patients and emergencies that it's going to
affect.
Devotion?  People that behave like that, don't even know the meaning of the
word, man.

E. Scrooge

"Annemarie" <annemarie.butler@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:aL%08.236$974.37965@news02.tsnz.net...
>
> "Patrick Dunford" <a47xxy@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:MPG.16af1658a9fb75b6989c47@news.clear.net.nz...
> > In article <Xns9197BD051AE96nospam@203.96.92.12> in newsgroup nz.general
> > on Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:29:28 GMT, bman(b@man.com) said...
> > >
> > > The nurses are going on strike again should be bloody illegal.
> > >
> > > They claim they are paid more overseas, but isn't that true for every
> other
> > > job in the country?
> > >
> > > They claim there is a shortage of nurses which is bollocks.
> >
> > It is true actually. There are not enough staff in the hospitals for
them
> > to all work normal hours. They have to work overtime a lot.
>
> Yes which means that they are tired, which puts patients at risk.

Nothing like the risk that having a week off is going to be on the poor
patients.  Any other so called risks are all part of the job.
Besides some of them don't need the excuse of being tired when putting
people at risk.  How about giving them what they want, but should they make
one mistake or not do their duties as they should, then they'll be sacked
right on the spot without any exceptions.  As well as giving them what they
want, lets also toughen up on the buggers, especially the ones that aren't
doing their bit to care for their patients needs.  There's no doubt that a
lot of nurses do a very a good job, but there are some that quite simply
don't.

E. Scrooge

"Patrick Dunford" <a47xxy@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:MPG.16af16cddec70c34989c48@news.clear.net.nz...
> In article <3c440636.3136503@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz> in newsgroup
> nz.politics on Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:40:56 GMT,
> Kerry(kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz) said...
> snip
> > Peter Dady said it best on the radio today.  They have no problem
> > understanding the market economy when it comes to administrators in
> > health, no problem understanding the drives of the market when it
> > comes to paying politicians, no problem when it comes to paying
> > 'consultants'.  The oft repeated 'pay peanuts and you get monkeys'
>
> Dady sounded like another politician or union whinger.
>
> If he was running the hospital they would have no managers, no computer
> systems blah blah blah. And of course the management would be run down.

If the management happens to be top heavy, and wasting money in the wrong
places.  Then something should be done about them.
There's not much point in have more Organ Grinders than Monkeys.  If the pen
pushers had their way, then the only efficient hospital would be an empty
hospital.  Get rid of the patients, which they are from some special
hospitals, cuts down the staff, and then do away with the hospital
completely.  The pen pushes are then happy, while the patients are fucked.
These patients are just being treated like shit, along with their families
that want the best for them as well.

E. Scrooge

"Cath" <texan@texas.usa.com> wrote in message
news:cdf62f95.0201151003.d4853e5@posting.google.com...
> Redbaiter <redbaiter@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:<MPG.16aed3776b947bf2989682@news.xtra.co.nz>...
> [msge snipped]
>
> > Relatively senior health workers are getting paid $US32 per
> > hour in Omaha (thats roughly $75 NZ) with a $US2000 signing
> > on bonus.
>
> A friend [kiwi nurse] of a friend was getting US$32 an hour in San
> Francisco and that was back in the mid-90's.
>
> Sign on bonuses for RN's of US$5,000 or more is common in major
> cities.
> Even LVN's and CNA's are now receiving sign-on bonuses though much
> less.
>
> Ultimately, someone has to pay for this - the medical insurance
> companies who pass it on to those that can afford to buy medical
> insurance.  As the rates increase, more and more cannot afford even
> basic insurance.
>
> Cath

It won't be long before only the wealthy will be able to afford to go to
hospital, the rest will be shit out of luck.

E. Scrooge

"Tim Scrivens" <tim.scrivens@nz.eds.com> wrote in message
news:a21vdu$iq2$1@hermes.nz.eds.com...
>
> "E. Scrooge" <e.scrooge@xfree.co.nx (z replaces x)> wrote in message
> news:a219ar$jgi$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> >
> > It would also be a fair right to at least give the hospitals enough time
> to
> > sort out some care for the patients in the meantime.
> > The blackmailers don't give a shit if decent care can be properly
> organised
> > for the patients or not.  Also more than likely some nurses from Otago
and
> > other parts of the country are once again expected to do more work yet
> again
> > while these sad pricks have yet another week off.
> > As well as the patients, they couldn't even give a shit for the already
> > overworked nurses from other areas that will have no choice but to fill
in
> > for these striking blackmailing bastards, as they know just how
important
> > the needs of the sick are despite their own list of complaints.  The
> recent
> > strike was just bearable with plenty of understanding towards the nurses
> of
> > Christchurch.  But this news of yet another strike already, after
they've
> > already been noticed, is just a bit all too much.
> > Going on strike is hardly doing their suffering patients any great
> favours,
> > but then they obviously don't give a stuff about them anyway.  If the
> nurses
> > are suffering now, give the patients some whips to really make the
> bastards
> > suffer just as much as a lot of them are.  Then the nurses will know
what
> > it's like to suffer, as they suffer from some real pain like many of
their
> > patients are each day.  Many a patient would like to suffer like the
> nurses
> > do (in the wallet) instead of the way in which they are now.
>
> Would you rather the nurses did not have the right to withdraw their
labour?
>
> They wouldn't get a pay rise at all without it - think about the rapacious
> pack of middle-management idiots they are working for.

That's all very well, but look at the heavy handed way that they're now
going about it.  2 strikes within a short time of each other.  Blackmailing
pricks, they're using the health and safety of their patients to get what
they want.

E. Scrooge

"Bob Howard" <no@spam.none.com> wrote in message
news:a2242t$93b$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
> "Kerry" <kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:3c440636.3136503@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz...
>
> SNIP
>
> I do have to smile when I think of nurses running around with shit filled
> bed pans, cleaning horrible operation wounds and holding a pan while a
> patient vomits into it only doing it for the money.
>
> Bob Howard.

There's nothing in the laws of nature that says a nurse won't one day be a
patient themselves.  Poor buggers, good luck to them when they are, and they
had better damn well hope that the working nurses aren't all out on strike
for a week at that time.
They deserve to get paid for what they do in their employment as nurses, but
it was their choice to be a nurse to help people, instead of being a nurse
just because it pays well.
One day these buggers, might need to get a nursed back to good health
themselves, by some prick that doesn't give a stuff, and is only doing it
for the money.

E. Scrooge

>
> There's nothing in the laws of nature that says a nurse won't one day be a
> patient themselves.  Poor buggers, good luck to them when they are, and
they
> had better damn well hope that the working nurses aren't all out on strike
> for a week at that time.
> They deserve to get paid for what they do in their employment as nurses,
but
> it was their choice to be a nurse to help people, instead of being a nurse
> just because it pays well.
> One day these buggers, might need to get a nursed back to good health
> themselves, by some prick that doesn't give a stuff, and is only doing it
> for the money.

That is totally unfair. Nurses used to be well paid 30 years ago. They have
seen their incomes eroded since then. They might have a calling to care for
people but that doesn't mean society should take a loan of them. They
deserve a rate of pay commensurate with other skilled workers. They won't
get pay rises if they don't stand up for themselves. An acquiescent nursing
workforce would suit Annette King.


Bob Howard.

"Bob Howard" <no@spam.none.com> wrote in message
news:a229e5$ega$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
> >
> > There's nothing in the laws of nature that says a nurse won't one day be
a
> > patient themselves.  Poor buggers, good luck to them when they are, and
> they
> > had better damn well hope that the working nurses aren't all out on
strike
> > for a week at that time.
> > They deserve to get paid for what they do in their employment as nurses,
> but
> > it was their choice to be a nurse to help people, instead of being a
nurse
> > just because it pays well.
> > One day these buggers, might need to get a nursed back to good health
> > themselves, by some prick that doesn't give a stuff, and is only doing
it
> > for the money.
>
> That is totally unfair. Nurses used to be well paid 30 years ago. They
have
> seen their incomes eroded since then. They might have a calling to care
for
> people but that doesn't mean society should take a loan of them. They
> deserve a rate of pay commensurate with other skilled workers. They won't
> get pay rises if they don't stand up for themselves. An acquiescent
nursing
> workforce would suit Annette King.
>
> Bob Howard.

Annette King is doing more damage to Health System than anyone else is.  And
she can't blame it all onto previous governments.  Getting her out of Health
would be a big step in the right direction.  Even Jim Anderton could do a
damn sight better job of it than what she's done, and that wouldn't be very
hard for him or anyone else.
The nurses can use the full power of the media to stand up for their rights,
but they don't.  Do they flood the newspapers with letters to the editor
about their problems?  Not by the looks of things.
Strikes should be done properly for the good of the patients, and not too
close to each other.  To give government enough time to react and take
notice of the last strike not that long ago.  There must already be plans to
do something after the actions of that one.  The government has already said
that over a billion will be spent on Health.  It shouldn't have got that bad
in the first place.  Like with Air NZ, the directors of Health need sorting
out, there's been stuff ups all over the Health sector.  Start at the top
with King, and work down.  Fixing the people at the bottom isn't going to
change much in the long term of things.  It's out with King first, and
that's what the people of the country should be demanding, she's doing no
better than Christine Rankin was for Winz.  While on strike the nurses
should be demanding for King's removal.

E. Scrooge

"me" <me@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns91986E1A0B88Bnospam@203.96.92.12...
> Redbaiter <redbaiter@nomail.com> wrote in <MPG.16aed3776b947bf2989682
> @news.xtra.co.nz>:
>
> >
> >Relatively senior health workers are getting paid $US32 per
> >hour in Omaha (thats roughly $75 NZ) with a $US2000 signing
> >on bonus.
> >
> >Why would anyone in their right mind stay in NZ and deal
> >with wages around one third of that, plus the irritation of
> >
>
> Senior management in the US can expect $200,000 to $20million a year. By
> your logic senior management in NZ should get priority in any pay rises.

Everything is bigger in the U.S.  We can't expect the same here.
It's a wonder that some people aren't demanding that NZ also has it's own
Space program as well.
Speaking of the U.S. isn't one of the world's largest vehicle makers in the
shit.  As the Ford Motor Company close down plants and lay off thousands of
it's staff.  All is not all that great in America either.  Even as big as it
is, the expansion of some businesses can only go so far and last for so
long, before they start to shrink back in size like Ford now is, and others
have done in the past.  Businesses all over are tightening up, compared to
the way that they were once run years ago.  Of course everything was far
cheaper back then.  What we have and are seeing now is the results of what
inflation has done and is doing over the years.  It's only a matter of time
before yet more businesses go under, or merge with their competitors to
survive.
Let everyone earn a million dollars a year.  Then watch all taxes go well
up, including GST to at least 25%, along with everything else.  IF everyone
was to earn a million dollars a year, the cost in living would still be
shit.  The cheapest new car would then cost about a million or two.

E. Scrooge

"bman" <b@man.com> wrote in message
news:Xns919875DDBE6A5nospam@203.96.92.12...
> "Bob Howard" <no@spam.none.com> wrote in <a229e5$ega$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>:
>
> >That is totally unfair. Nurses used to be well paid 30 years ago. They
> >have seen their incomes eroded since then. They might have a calling to
> >care for people but that doesn't mean society should take a loan of
> >them.
>
> I agree that they should be paid their true value.
>
> >They deserve a rate of pay commensurate with other skilled
> >workers.
>
> Exactly. What other workers from Tech get paid more than nurses?

Just about ANYONE in IT, for a start.  Most programmers are Tech educated
only.

In article <a222av$6td$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> in newsgroup nz.politics on
Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:10:07 +0000 (UTC), Matt
Ledgerwood(ledge@nat.matrx.co.nz) said...
> In nz.politics Patrick Dunford <a47xxy@yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
> > In article <3c440636.3136503@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz> in newsgroup
> > nz.politics on Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:40:56 GMT,
> > Kerry(kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz) said...
> > snip
> >> Peter Dady said it best on the radio today.  They have no problem
> >> understanding the market economy when it comes to administrators in
> >> health, no problem understanding the drives of the market when it
> >> comes to paying politicians, no problem when it comes to paying
> >> 'consultants'.  The oft repeated 'pay peanuts and you get monkeys'
>
> > Dady sounded like another politician or union whinger.
>
> > If he was running the hospital they would have no managers, no computer
> > systems blah blah blah. And of course the management would be run down.
>
> If the current management was doing a good job this whole situation
> wouldn't have occured. Managers are often incompetent idiots who
> really have no idea how to run businesses.

If they are incompetent then the business generally goes bust. The
Government has full scrutiny over the operation of the health sector.
Incompetents get sacked, you know. The government expects the management
to spend the money wisely and not lose money.

In article <Xns91986F6DE985Dnospam@203.96.92.12> in newsgroup nz.politics
on Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:51:45 GMT, bman(b@man.com) said...
> kerryd@remove.this.bit.ihug.co.nz (Kerry) wrote in
> <3c440b74.4477959@news.wlg.ihug.co.nz>:
>
> >So if there is no shortage of nurses in Christchurch, the strike will
> >have no effect.
> >
>
> Of course if there is a strike there is a shortage.
>
> Its a bit like the wharfies in the old days. They know they have an
> important job, they kept going on strike and as a result got excellent
> wages.
>
>
> >Being paid 'above average' wages does not mean one is recompensed
> >fairly for one's skills and education.
>
> What skills are they again? Out of all the people who go to tech, who earns
> more than nurses?

Management people, computer people (my tech taught lots of nurses, it
also taught business management and computing degrees)

In article <a229e5$ega$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> in newsgroup nz.politics on
Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:12:11 +1300, Bob Howard(no@spam.none.com) said...
>
> >
> > There's nothing in the laws of nature that says a nurse won't one day be a
> > patient themselves.  Poor buggers, good luck to them when they are, and
> they
> > had better damn well hope that the working nurses aren't all out on strike
> > for a week at that time.
> > They deserve to get paid for what they do in their employment as nurses,
> but
> > it was their choice to be a nurse to help people, instead of being a nurse
> > just because it pays well.
> > One day these buggers, might need to get a nursed back to good health
> > themselves, by some prick that doesn't give a stuff, and is only doing it
> > for the money.
>
> That is totally unfair. Nurses used to be well paid 30 years ago. They have
> seen their incomes eroded since then. They might have a calling to care for
> people but that doesn't mean society should take a loan of them. They
> deserve a rate of pay commensurate with other skilled workers. They won't
> get pay rises if they don't stand up for themselves. An acquiescent nursing
> workforce would suit Annette King.

Ah Bob, if Jenny was still the Health Minister you'd be playing a
different tune

In article <Xns919875DDBE6A5nospam@203.96.92.12> in newsgroup nz.politics
on Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:29:43 GMT, bman(b@man.com) said...
> "Bob Howard" <no@spam.none.com> wrote in <a229e5$ega$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>:
>
> >That is totally unfair. Nurses used to be well paid 30 years ago. They
> >have seen their incomes eroded since then. They might have a calling to
> >care for people but that doesn't mean society should take a loan of
> >them.
>
> I agree that they should be paid their true value.
>
> >They deserve a rate of pay commensurate with other skilled
> >workers.
>
> Exactly. What other workers from Tech get paid more than nurses?

Computer professionals

> However nurses appear to be trying to get pay rises by using union muscle.
> They know their strikes are disruptive, its just like the wharfies 20 years
> ago.

Well that is an alternative to mass resignation - which will have the
same outcome.

>
> Nurses already earn above average wages. A 30 year old nurse with 10 years
> of experience is paid $40k, while a doctor of the similar age is paid $50-
> 60k. Do you really think the nurse should be paid much more?

The nurses should be paid to reflect the skills and responsibility of
their job. They also should not have to work large amounts of overtime.

There are a lot of less responsible professions that are paid a lot more
than nurses.