🚀 go-pugleaf

Someone who looks an awful lot like Larry Caldwell <larryc@teleport.com> wrote:
> Cities are dangerous places.  Someone who lives in a metropolitan area is

> 2.42 times as likely to be a victim of violent crime (murder, rape,
> robbery, aggravated assault)

> 2.39 times as likely to be the victim of a property crime (burglary,
> larceny, auto theft)

> I find it interesting that the relative rates of violent crime and
> property crime are so similar.

At the risk of starting an endless thread, I can't help but wonder if
us rural folks are 2.4 times more likely to have a gun in the house?

Might explain an awful lot.

Dave Hinz

Re: the strange incident....
Hope you got a license plate number....
SueK

In article <anhvot$ehp12$2@ID-134476.news.dfncis.de>,
davehinz@spamcop.net writes:

> At the risk of starting an endless thread, I can't help but wonder if
> us rural folks are 2.4 times more likely to have a gun in the house?

You mean, "What do you call a woman packing a .357?"

"Ma'am."

> Might explain an awful lot.

The thread on the hurricane that mentioned looting was jarring to me.  I
have never heard of rural looting.  It's like the Rodney King riots in
LA.  The Korean small business owners patrolled their businesses with
shotguns, and the looters decided they needed to loot somewhere else.
You would have to be terminally dumb to try looting in a rural area.

I think I have posted before about the retired old gentleman down the
road from me who kept his officer's 1911 sidearm after WWII.  One night a
burglar climbed through his window and the old guy gave him a round right
between the eyes.  It was a hell of a shot, in the dark and under
pressure like that.  It's funny, it happened years ago and that area
hasn't had a burglary since.  Word gets around.  So yeah, I think guns
substantially contribute to the safety of rural areas.

Besides, you have to have a gun.  Otherwise, what would you do if you
needed to shoot something? :)

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

Larry Caldwell <larryc@teleport.com> wrote in
news:MPG.18064d8b2319055a98a08a@news.earthlink.net:

> In article <anhvot$ehp12$2@ID-134476.news.dfncis.de>,
> davehinz@spamcop.net writes:
>
snip
> The thread on the hurricane that mentioned looting was jarring to me.  I
> have never heard of rural looting.
As you all know, we have been contemplating a move to the south, right
in the area of hurricane country.
(You can save the "stupid comments", as I lived on top of the San Adreas
fault for years, as does 33 million or so other idiots
and received no warning when cities, freeways and buildings
collapsed. With a hurricane, at least you have prior notice).
One has to decide which is more_ stupid.
There IS no earth bound nirvana that fits all.
Anyway...

It helps to have a friend and relatives there to help dispel some mysteries.
So far, I've found out a few things I wondered about in that area.
Folks who evacuate are usually city folks, but those that are_ in
the country usually have dogs. And, since dogs are not allowed
in public shelters, folks either stay put or take their dogs with them.
Most often, they stay with relaties because THEY have dogs, too.

ID is usually required when going back to an area after a hurricane.
There are usually LOTS of law enforcement folks around, as this
is their job that they live with each and every year.
They're used to dealing with this.
Also, in the country, folks have a tendency to notice a strange
person in a neighbor's house, looting it.
(This is common in almost all rural areas, thankfully).
If your neighbor in the country is anything like you, you will
notice any idiots trying to loot after a hurricane and flooding.
(Folks there tend to take their valuables with them, as the house
that floods doesn't have much worth taking anyway).
Add to that, the snakes and 'gators that come out of the woodwork
during severe flooding.
In the country in hurricane country, most folks with dogs
will also wind up on the roof, which gives a clear shot to idiots
trying to loot.
Not to mention rural folks are self-sufficient enough to actually
be able to LIVE on the roof.
BG!




snip
> You would have to be terminally dumb to try looting in a rural area.
I agree.
Darwinism works well in this situation.
If one is too dumb to know rural dwellers have guns_ as well as dogs,
then they deserve to be shot for opportunism.

snip
  So yeah, I think guns
> substantially contribute to the safety of rural areas.
I think so, too.
A weird thing happened a few weeks ago.
A guy and his wife pulled up in our driveway, and parked in
front of our open garage.
DH heard the dogs "stanger" barks, and walked around the corner
from the field.
This guy was strange. He knew "just" enough to know the first
names of the local Simplot foreman and the area, but started
asking questions such as maybe we'd let him drive our Kubota
someday, or maybe, our dozer.
My husband, normally the most placid of folks, had the hair
on the back of his neck stand up.
He abruptly ended the conversation and, (rude, for him), turned
around and went back into the house, closing the garage
after making a comment such as, "I don't think so".
Talked to the foreman, he never heard of the guy.


Since then, we've been a bit wary, since crime goes up
during a bad economy and we started allowing our dogs
to have privy to the garage as well as the house and yard.
Also, for the first time in 17 years, we started locking
our doors at night.
We also started locking the padlocks on our sheds.

>
> Besides, you have to have a gun.  Otherwise, what would you do if you
> needed to shoot something? :)
Let a PeTa puke try and grab a cotton mouth or copperhead without one?


Terri

Someone who looks an awful lot like Larry Caldwell <larryc@teleport.com> wrote:
> In article <anhvot$ehp12$2@ID-134476.news.dfncis.de>,
> davehinz@spamcop.net writes:

>> At the risk of starting an endless thread, I can't help but wonder if
>> us rural folks are 2.4 times more likely to have a gun in the house?

> You mean, "What do you call a woman packing a .357?"
> "Ma'am."

"An armed society, is a polite society."

>> Might explain an awful lot.

> The thread on the hurricane that mentioned looting was jarring to me.  I
> have never heard of rural looting.  It's like the Rodney King riots in
> LA.  The Korean small business owners patrolled their businesses with
> shotguns, and the looters decided they needed to loot somewhere else.
> You would have to be terminally dumb to try looting in a rural area.

Absolutely.

> I think I have posted before about the retired old gentleman down the
> road from me who kept his officer's 1911 sidearm after WWII.  One night a
> burglar climbed through his window and the old guy gave him a round right
> between the eyes.  It was a hell of a shot, in the dark and under
> pressure like that.  It's funny, it happened years ago and that area
> hasn't had a burglary since.  Word gets around.  So yeah, I think guns
> substantially contribute to the safety of rural areas.

The US government's crime statistics back this up as well.

> Besides, you have to have a gun.  Otherwise, what would you do if you
> needed to shoot something? :)

It's like the forest behind my house.  I don't go there often, but it's
nice to know it's there when I want to.

Dave Hinz

"Larry Caldwell" <larryc@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.18064d8b2319055a98a08a@news.earthlink.net...
> In article <anhvot$ehp12$2@ID-134476.news.dfncis.de>,
> davehinz@spamcop.net writes:
>
> > At the risk of starting an endless thread, I can't help but wonder if
> > us rural folks are 2.4 times more likely to have a gun in the house?
>
> You mean, "What do you call a woman packing a .357?"
>
> "Ma'am."
>
> > Might explain an awful lot.
>
> The thread on the hurricane that mentioned looting was jarring to me.  I
> have never heard of rural looting.  It's like the Rodney King riots in
> LA.  The Korean small business owners patrolled their businesses with
> shotguns, and the looters decided they needed to loot somewhere else.
> You would have to be terminally dumb to try looting in a rural area.
>
> I think I have posted before about the retired old gentleman down the
> road from me who kept his officer's 1911 sidearm after WWII.  One night a
> burglar climbed through his window and the old guy gave him a round right
> between the eyes.  It was a hell of a shot, in the dark and under
> pressure like that.  It's funny, it happened years ago and that area
> hasn't had a burglary since.  Word gets around.  So yeah, I think guns
> substantially contribute to the safety of rural areas.
>
> Besides, you have to have a gun.  Otherwise, what would you do if you
> needed to shoot something? :)

In a local small town, an 80 year old woman shot a guy who was trying
to kick her front door in so he could rob her.  She blasted him with a 12
gauge through the door.  Burglaries and home invasions dropped
dramatically in that small town for quite a while.

Sue

>
> --
> http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

What do you mean rural people are not afraid of the dark?

You should see my neighbor when the electricity goes out at night. She
thinks the boogey man is going to get her. (Also goes into fetal position
if any bats buzz her.)

Her 5 year old is not much better. Will not go unescorted into a dark area.
There are "monsters" lurking about you know...

And a couple of BIG dogs!

Lori

John Klausner wrote:
>
> Re: the strange incident....
> Hope you got a license plate number....
> SueK


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In article <ank4j6$n2s$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>, bishop5@ix.netcom.com
writes:

> In a local small town, an 80 year old woman shot a guy who was trying
> to kick her front door in so he could rob her.  She blasted him with a 12
> gauge through the door.  Burglaries and home invasions dropped
> dramatically in that small town for quite a while.

My mom just turned 83.  When my dad died I inherited all his guns, except
for the 16 gauge that was always the "farm gun."  It was always a home
defense weapon.  My dad bought it the night that the Japanese sub
surfaced and shelled Battery Russell on the northern Oregon coast.

With no regular army in the state, the governor mustered the militia.
Nobody knew if it was the prelude to an invasion.  The shotgun was just
about the last gun left at the hardware store when my dad got there.  It
sold out of guns and ammunition that night.

I think it is an appropriate home defense and utility gun.  It has been
around longer than any other gun, and my mother is comfortable with it.
It is still in immaculate condition.  My father was a machinist who never
abused a tool in his life.  I still clean and oil it for my mother every
six months or so.

She's not afraid of the dark either.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

Larry Caldwell <larryc@teleport.com> wrote in
news:MPG.18064d8b2319055a98a08a@news.earthlink.net:

> Besides, you have to have a gun.  Otherwise, what would you do if you
> needed to shoot something? :)

Can I use that as my sig?

In article <Xns929D74DF1D1D4voteforott@207.14.113.17>,
bbbean@beancotton.com writes:

> Larry Caldwell <larryc@teleport.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.18064d8b2319055a98a08a@news.earthlink.net:

> > Besides, you have to have a gun.  Otherwise, what would you do if you
> > needed to shoot something? :)

> Can I use that as my sig?

Be my guest.  You must be related to the cotton Beans, Huh?  :)

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

In article <ankhqv$f3ade$1@ID-148028.news.dfncis.de>,
bill190nospam@yahoo.com writes:
> What do you mean rural people are not afraid of the dark?

> You should see my neighbor when the electricity goes out at night. She
> thinks the boogey man is going to get her. (Also goes into fetal position
> if any bats buzz her.)

> Her 5 year old is not much better. Will not go unescorted into a dark area.
> There are "monsters" lurking about you know...

Are you sure they are rural people?  They sound more like transplanted
suburbanites to me.

I'm a dark sky guy.  If you turn the lights on, you can't see nuthin' at
night.  If you turn the lights out, you can see for billions and billions
of miles.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

I love it!  Did he _really_ say that?
SueK

Rick wrote:
snipped
> Guns aren't just for boogie men.  Ben said it well.
>
> Ben Franklin, 1759
>
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
> Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

Larry Caldwell <larryc@teleport.com> wrote in
news:MPG.18077d8cafd76a2d98a09d@news.earthlink.net:

> In article <Xns929D74DF1D1D4voteforott@207.14.113.17>,
> bbbean@beancotton.com writes:
>
>> Larry Caldwell <larryc@teleport.com> wrote in
>> news:MPG.18064d8b2319055a98a08a@news.earthlink.net:
>
>> > Besides, you have to have a gun.  Otherwise, what would you do if you
>> > needed to shoot something? :)
>
>> Can I use that as my sig?
>
> Be my guest.  You must be related to the cotton Beans, Huh?  :)

Present and accounted for.

Judging by the occassional sodium vapor lamps, some rural folk are
afraid. Like most though, I love the night sky.

Visitors often remark how afraid they would be to live in the country.

"Aren't you afraid of people coming out of the woods?"

"What about rural terrorists or "Deliverence types" coming over? No
one could hear you scream."

Most lock their cars.

I think they watch too much TV/movies.

Bill

Quite rural, although they are always glued to the TV.

They prefer violent movies which could explain the wife's fear of
darkness...


"Larry Caldwell" wrote in message
>
> Are you sure they are rural people?  They sound more like transplanted
> suburbanites to me.
>
> I'm a dark sky guy.  If you turn the lights on, you can't see nuthin' at
> night.  If you turn the lights out, you can see for billions and billions
> of miles.
>

"Bill" <bill190nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ankhqv$f3ade$1@ID-148028.news.dfncis.de...
> What do you mean rural people are not afraid of the dark?
>
> You should see my neighbor when the electricity goes out at night. She
> thinks the boogey man is going to get her. (Also goes into fetal position
> if any bats buzz her.)
>
> Her 5 year old is not much better. Will not go unescorted into a dark
area.
> There are "monsters" lurking about you know...

Sounds like she has too many city genes.

Sue

>
>
>
>

"general bill" <billgen2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b48fed7c.0210050451.7f2b6683@posting.google.com...
> Judging by the occassional sodium vapor lamps, some rural folk are
> afraid. Like most though, I love the night sky.
>
> Visitors often remark how afraid they would be to live in the country.
>
> "Aren't you afraid of people coming out of the woods?"

Yeah, I've gotten that remark.  Since the woods they are talking about is
about 15 acres and a local judge lives in part of them, I'm definitely not
worried.

>
> "What about rural terrorists or "Deliverence types" coming over? No
> one could hear you scream."
>
> Most lock their cars.
>
> I think they watch too much TV/movies.

I know they watch too many TV/movies.  Although there are areas
of the South where I have visited and made sure my doors were locked.
My sister and BIL bought a country house on a dead end road once.
(They move around a lot, he's a building contractor.)  There was a
rather trashy looking trailer next door and another house across the
road about 100 yards away.  I know lots of folks who live in trailers
who keep their place spotless, btw.
Anyway, my sister started getting phone calls.  "You sure look cute
out there mowing the yard."  "You look downright adorable in shorts."
"Your husband is gone a lot, isn't he?"
They moved out immediately and sold the house ASAP.

Sue

>
> Bill

dogsnus wrote:
>
> Lori A <lori8288@accucom.net> wrote in news:3D9DAD3F.2D1660C7@accucom.net:
>
> > And a couple of BIG dogs!
>
> I have those. Two great big German Shepherds.
> But, they aren't allowed to run free, so they're confined
> in the back yard with access to the house and now, the
> garage.
>

-------

   We also have two German Shepherds...what a coincidence!  Ours do not
run loose either...nor are they tied up somewhere like some folks do.
How would they patrol and alert me to trouble if they were not in the
house or free to explore in my fenced-in yard.  Funny, an old four- foot
high fence (not chain link) shows them their boundries.

 They are well trained and I get great satisfaction at the apprehensive
looks they receive from strangers at the front door.  Many times these
folks have asked "Do they bite?"  I reply, "Only when I tell them to!

We use to live in the city...and it is surprising how many more people
knock on our doors out here then they did there.  We are quite willing
to help with a broken down vehicle or to give directions...but we no
longer welcome every person into our home.  How things have changed.

Lori


"


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How do you explain all the all-night yard lights?

--Jeff Stehman

Lori A <lori8288@accucom.net> wrote in news:3D9DAD3F.2D1660C7@accucom.net:

> And a couple of BIG dogs!

I have those. Two great big German Shepherds.
But, they aren't allowed to run free, so they're confined
in the back yard with access to the house and now, the
garage.


>
> Lori
>
> John Klausner wrote:
>>
>> Re: the strange incident....
>> Hope you got a license plate number....

Nope.
I asked DH if they were local plates.
He didn't look. He does remember they were
driving an old, grayish Subaru Brat, though.
He also noticed neither the guy nor his wife
had any front teeth and that the guy had a very
bad looking oozy rash on his left shoulder and
arm.

Terri

In article <2002100600445288435@zetnet.co.uk>,
janet.and.john@zetnet.co.uk says...
> > How do you explain all the all-night yard lights?
>
>   So that they get a good shot at the nocturnal intruders they aren't
> frightened of ?

I always thought of it as giving the bad guys a beacon and blinding
myself to what's out there.

In article <3D9E567E.A3762813@ix.netcom.com>, somis7@ix.netcom.com
writes:
> I love it!  Did he _really_ say that?
> SueK

Apparently so.

> Rick wrote:
> snipped
> > Guns aren't just for boogie men.  Ben said it well.
> >
> > Ben Franklin, 1759
> >
> > "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
> > Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
>

--
"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can
bribe the people with their own money."
                             -- Alexis de Tocquevile

Lori A <lori8288@accucom.net> wrote in news:3D9F08C1.94BFC089@accucom.net:

> dogsnus wrote:
>>
>> Lori A <lori8288@accucom.net> wrote in
news:3D9DAD3F.2D1660C7@accucom.net:
>>
>> > And a couple of BIG dogs!
>>
>> I have those. Two great big German Shepherds.
>> But, they aren't allowed to run free, so they're confined
>> in the back yard with access to the house and now, the garage.
>>
>
> -------
>
>    We also have two German Shepherds...what a coincidence!  Ours do not
> run loose either...nor are they tied up somewhere like some folks do.
> How would they patrol and alert me to trouble if they were not in the
> house or free to explore in my fenced-in yard.  Funny, an old four- foot
> high fence (not chain link) shows them their boundries.

We also have a 4 foot fence. To date, neither dog has left the boundries.
Well, Luke did, once; as he got outside the fence and has a life long
mission to kill all_ moving water, especially from sprinklers.
He only got as far as the first set of 30 or so sprinkler heads, though,
in the orchard.
He was so into it, his brain went into overload as to which sprinkler
head he should kill first.
The guy was leaping about, not knowing which spray to "kill" first.
Here's the "killer" crew:
http://www.icehouse.net/dogsnus/sofabdy.jpg

On the left is Mojo, an oversized GSD who weighs in at about 115#.
His bark is so deep that the last time we were at the vet's, his
bark brought the folks wayyyy back in the compound in front, to
see what it was that sounded like that.
His next vet card was addressed to "Holy Smokes".
(Arena Valley's Smokin' Pistol", is his registered name.
:)
Luke, the one of the right, is only @ 80#.
He's the one to watch out for.
He "watches", and observes things.
He's the perfect example of a good GSD.
Afraid of nothing, but not easily aggitated by loud
noises.



..
>
>  They are well trained and I get great satisfaction at the apprehensive
> looks they receive from strangers at the front door.  Many times these
> folks have asked "Do they bite?"  I reply, "Only when I tell them to!

My response is: "Not so far".
I trust my dog's responses. I have stories of my previous
GSDs, now dead, that have proven to me that they are sharper
than I, at judging situations and humans.

Terri

"Larry Caldwell"
> I'm a dark sky guy.  If you turn the lights on, you can't see
nuthin'
> at night.  If you turn the lights out, you can see for billions and
> billions of miles.

Night in the city, you can only see a handful of the brightest stars.

Night in the country, the sky is dazzling with millions of stars. If
you are lucky, an occasional comet will hang there like a fragile
christmas tree ornament. The most spectacular sight in all of nature
is a full blown aurora blazing across the night sky.

CM

Ray Manning wrote:
>
> "Jeff Stehman" <news.kendra.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.18097c705fe0985e989693@news.kendra.com...
> > In article <2002100600445288435@zetnet.co.uk>,
> > janet.and.john@zetnet.co.uk says...
> > > > How do you explain all the all-night yard lights?
> > >
> > >   So that they get a good shot at the nocturnal intruders they aren't
> > > frightened of ?
> >
> > I always thought of it as giving the bad guys a beacon and blinding
> > myself to what's out there.
>
> Yeah, you're supposed to turn them on when you hear the bad guy cussing
> after he trips over the blade of the tractor ;-)

Moving into a community and installing "dusk to dawn" outside lighting
is about the worst form of security you can have. Pissing off your
neighbors is very foolish in a rural area.
--
Lou Boyd

"Jeff Stehman" <news.kendra.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.18097c705fe0985e989693@news.kendra.com...
> In article <2002100600445288435@zetnet.co.uk>,
> janet.and.john@zetnet.co.uk says...
> > > How do you explain all the all-night yard lights?
> >
> >   So that they get a good shot at the nocturnal intruders they aren't
> > frightened of ?
>
> I always thought of it as giving the bad guys a beacon and blinding
> myself to what's out there.

Yeah, you're supposed to turn them on when you hear the bad guy cussing
after he trips over the blade of the tractor ;-)

Ray Manning wrote:
>
> "Jeff Stehman" <news.kendra.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.18097c705fe0985e989693@news.kendra.com...
> > In article <2002100600445288435@zetnet.co.uk>,
> > janet.and.john@zetnet.co.uk says...
> > > > How do you explain all the all-night yard lights?

Or transplanted city people that are afraid of the dark.

Like my neighbor, grrr....

Maureen

Rural people aren't afraid of the dark because they've been rural long
enough to know if there's anything out there, it's much more afraid of
them. God planned it that way.

 I live in a rural community with a population of around 100. My
children bus 18 miles to school, its 28 miles to a large grocery store
and 50 miles to the mall.

 The reason crime rate is less in rural areas is because of the class
of people. Plain and simple.

 It true just about everyone owns a gun and dog; however they are
acquired more for hunting and family companions (especially
children's). The only thieves I'm concerned about are the chicken
stealing variety and I'll give our dog credit for keeping that pretty
well in check.

 If someone's got a fence around here it's to keep cattle, not dogs
in.

davehinz@spamcop.net wrote:
>
> Someone who looks an awful lot like Jeff Stehman <news.kendra.com> wrote:
>
> > How do you explain all the all-night yard lights?
>
> What *is* up with that?  Hellacious waste of power, seems to me.
>
All night lights just scream "rob me".  What better sign could a person
put up that says "I have money to burn and am too stupid to care".  They
make it easy to tell when no one is home.  A patient burglar can count
everyone who comes and goes using the convenient lighting.

If you want to detect intruders use passive infrared detectors.  They
draw little power and don't bother anyone.   The cost is about the same
as light fixtures.   If you want to see intruders add ccd cameras with
infrared illuminators.  They're pretty reasonable in price too.   Those
are also fun for watching nighttime "critters".
--
Lou Boyd

Louis Boyd wrote:
>
> Ray Manning wrote:
> >
> > "Jeff Stehman" <news.kendra.com> wrote in message
> > news:MPG.18097c705fe0985e989693@news.kendra.com...
> > > In article <2002100600445288435@zetnet.co.uk>,
> > > janet.and.john@zetnet.co.uk says...
> > > > > How do you explain all the all-night yard lights?
> > > >
> > > >   So that they get a good shot at the nocturnal intruders they aren't
> > > > frightened of ?
> > >
> > > I always thought of it as giving the bad guys a beacon and blinding
> > > myself to what's out there.
> >
> > Yeah, you're supposed to turn them on when you hear the bad guy cussing
> > after he trips over the blade of the tractor ;-)
>
> Moving into a community and installing "dusk to dawn" outside lighting
> is about the worst form of security you can have. Pissing off your
> neighbors is very foolish in a rural area.
> --
> Lou Boyd

You've got that right. Around here (Colorado Springs) idiots move out in
the country and take the city with them. Driving east on US 24, it looks
like a blasted parking lot all the way to Calhan and beyond with the
dusk to dawn lights. But some people moved out to the country because
they like it. Day and night. Ruin night for those people and they are
going to be really up tight. One of the managers where I work moved up
north of town. His wife wanted one of those silly lights. I told him he
would be sorry. Well, he has thoroughly pissed off a neighbor half a
mile away and I am on the neighbor's side in this argument. Anyway,
potential intruder like night not because it is dark but because there
aren't hoards of people outside to see them.

Chuck
--
                        ... The times have been,
                     That, when the brains were out,
                          the man would die. ...         Macbeth
               Chuck Simmons          chrlsim@webaccess.net

Jeff Stehman <news.kendra.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.18097c705fe0985e989693@news.kendra.com...
> In article <2002100600445288435@zetnet.co.uk>,
> janet.and.john@zetnet.co.uk says...
> > > How do you explain all the all-night yard lights?
> >
> >   So that they get a good shot at the nocturnal intruders they
aren't
> > frightened of ?
>
> I always thought of it as giving the bad guys a beacon and
blinding
> myself to what's out there.

Its so we can see all the critters on the deck.  Just *love*
watching the coons and the skunks looking for food, especially when
they bring the young 'uns.  ;>

Deb
--
(in Oregon, the pacific northWET)  ;>

Someone who looks an awful lot like Jeff Stehman <news.kendra.com> wrote:

> How do you explain all the all-night yard lights?

What *is* up with that?  Hellacious waste of power, seems to me.

Dave

I LOVE it when we can go out to our land.  I leave my keys and purse in
my car while I do whatever work I went out there for.  If I have to run
to a neighbor's, no problem.  My purse will sit there in the front seat
and wait for me until I get back.  <sigh>  Wish we were living there now ...

--
Sylvia Steiger RN BS
Remove "remove-this" from address to reply
http://www.SteigerFamily.com
Cheyenne WY, USDA zone 5a, Sunset zone 1a
Home of the Wyoming Wind Festival, January 1-December 31

> What do peopel think about very dim lights for security floods?


Idiots with too many credit cards?

--
Sylvia Steiger RN BS
Remove "remove-this" from address to reply
http://www.SteigerFamily.com
Cheyenne WY, USDA zone 5a, Sunset zone 1a
Home of the Wyoming Wind Festival, January 1-December 31

"Janet Baraclough" <janet.and.john@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2002100812182388435@zetnet.co.uk...
> The message <3DA265A1.60905@canadaREMOVETHIS.com>
> from Sylvia Steiger <SylviaRN@canadaREMOVETHIS.com> contains these words:
>
> > I LOVE it when we can go out to our land.  I leave my keys and purse in
> > my car while I do whatever work I went out there for.  If I have to run
> > to a neighbor's, no problem.  My purse will sit there in the front seat
> > and wait for me until I get back.  <sigh>  Wish we were living there now
...
>
>   Most rural theft here, happens in daylight hours from parked vehicles
> where there are few people about; criminals always look for the easiest
> low-risk target. They also sell and trade information to each other,
> about properties where slack security gives them easy pickings.
>

In some areas, rural theft is a serious problem.  In the poorer areas, it
is downright epidemic.  I talked to one woman who said she was the
only one on her road who had not had a burglary.  But she has a fenced
yard with several big dogs in it.  Some friends of mine had a cabin in
a rural area which was broken into on a regular basis.  They only used
it for weekends and finally sold it due because it was just too much
trouble to constantly have to deal with the break-ins.

Sue

>   Janet.

Larry Caldwell wrote:
>
> In article <3DA0ECF1.6CE20FF9@apt0.sao.arizona.edu>,
> boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu writes:
>
> > All night lights just scream "rob me".  What better sign could a person
> > put up that says "I have money to burn and am too stupid to care".  They
> > make it easy to tell when no one is home.  A patient burglar can count
> > everyone who comes and goes using the convenient lighting.
>
> When I bought this place the old couple had a mercury vapor light that
> belonged to the power company.  There was no on/off switch, and they paid
> $6 a month to the power company to have it.

Which side of the meter was it wired to?  They may have been paying more
than $6 per month for it.

--
Lou Boyd

Around here, they wire the lights up seperately from the meter, and charge a
flat-fee..  Which I seem to remember being something like $100/yr.

"Louis Boyd" <boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu> wrote in message
> >
> > When I bought this place the old couple had a mercury vapor light that
> > belonged to the power company.  There was no on/off switch, and they
paid
> > $6 a month to the power company to have it.
>
> Which side of the meter was it wired to?  They may have been paying more
> than $6 per month for it.

"Louis Boyd" <boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:3DA35F95.C81AEF03@apt0.sao.arizona.edu...
> Larry Caldwell wrote:
> >
> > In article <3DA0ECF1.6CE20FF9@apt0.sao.arizona.edu>,
> > boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu writes:
> >
> > > All night lights just scream "rob me".  What better sign could a
person
> > > put up that says "I have money to burn and am too stupid to care".
They
> > > make it easy to tell when no one is home.  A patient burglar can count
> > > everyone who comes and goes using the convenient lighting.
> >
> > When I bought this place the old couple had a mercury vapor light that
> > belonged to the power company.  There was no on/off switch, and they
paid
> > $6 a month to the power company to have it.
>
> Which side of the meter was it wired to?  They may have been paying more
> than $6 per month for it.

Those arrangements are a relic of the days when the hope was nuclear power
would make electricity "too cheap to meter."   The power for the lamps was
not metered as they took power from the lines before the lines came to the
"power head" and your meter.

Years ago I lived in a cheap apartment complex that used a bunch of then $3
a month lights for the tennis court.

These are a lot more than pure security lights.   They make it easier for
friends and family to find your place at night and to get back into their
cars after the visit.   Likewise, if you return home at night you can see to
get to your door and can "look the place over" before you get out of the
car.

In article <3DA0ECF1.6CE20FF9@apt0.sao.arizona.edu>,
boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu writes:

> All night lights just scream "rob me".  What better sign could a person
> put up that says "I have money to burn and am too stupid to care".  They
> make it easy to tell when no one is home.  A patient burglar can count
> everyone who comes and goes using the convenient lighting.

When I bought this place the old couple had a mercury vapor light that
belonged to the power company.  There was no on/off switch, and they paid
$6 a month to the power company to have it.

The first thing we did was call the power company and tell them to come
get their light.  They were astonished.  "You know, we don't install them
for free any more."  I put up yard lights that I can turn off.

I have nothing against yard lights as long as they have a switch.

--
"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can
bribe the people with their own money."
                             -- Alexis de Tocquevile

Does that include the extra lamps and fixtures that the annoyed
neighbors shoot out?
--
Lou Boyd

BD wrote:
>
> Around here, they wire the lights up seperately from the meter, and charge a
> flat-fee..  Which I seem to remember being something like $100/yr.
>
> "Louis Boyd" <boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu> wrote in message
> > >
> > > When I bought this place the old couple had a mercury vapor light that
> > > belonged to the power company.  There was no on/off switch, and they
> paid
> > > $6 a month to the power company to have it.
> >
> > Which side of the meter was it wired to?  They may have been paying more
> > than $6 per month for it.

In article <3DA35F95.C81AEF03@apt0.sao.arizona.edu>,
boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu writes:

> Which side of the meter was it wired to?  They may have been paying more
> than $6 per month for it.

It was wired straight off the transformer, the typical yard light
abomination that was on all night no matter if you wanted it or not.

If it had been mine, I would have just rewired it with an on/off switch.
Since it belonged to the power company, I had them take it away.

--
"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can
bribe the people with their own money."
                             -- Alexis de Tocquevile

"John Gilmer" <gilmer@crosslink.net> wrote in message news:<3da385dd$0$8799@dingus.crosslink.net>...
> "Louis Boyd" <boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu> wrote in message
> news:3DA35F95.C81AEF03@apt0.sao.arizona.edu...
> > Larry Caldwell wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <3DA0ECF1.6CE20FF9@apt0.sao.arizona.edu>,
> > > boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu writes:
> > >
> > > > All night lights just scream "rob me".  What better sign could a
>  person
> > > > put up that says "I have money to burn and am too stupid to care".
>  They
> > > > make it easy to tell when no one is home.  A patient burglar can count
> > > > everyone who comes and goes using the convenient lighting.
> > >
> > > When I bought this place the old couple had a mercury vapor light that
> > > belonged to the power company.  There was no on/off switch, and they
>  paid
> > > $6 a month to the power company to have it.
> >
> > Which side of the meter was it wired to?  They may have been paying more
> > than $6 per month for it.
>
> Those arrangements are a relic of the days when the hope was nuclear power
> would make electricity "too cheap to meter."   The power for the lamps was
> not metered as they took power from the lines before the lines came to the
> "power head" and your meter.
>
> Years ago I lived in a cheap apartment complex that used a bunch of then $3
> a month lights for the tennis court.
>
> These are a lot more than pure security lights.   They make it easier for
> friends and family to find your place at night and to get back into their
> cars after the visit.   Likewise, if you return home at night you can see to
> get to your door and can "look the place over" before you get out of the
> car.

That is about the poorest rationalization for all-night lights there
is.  They do absolutely _nothing_ that an on-off switch wouldn't do
just as well when coupled with motion detector lights.  Switch on -
visitors find place.  Come home, motion sensors light up the area for
you.  Lot cheaper and you don't make a thief's job easier.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:
>
> "John Gilmer" <gilmer@crosslink.net> wrote in message news:<3da385dd$0$8799@dingus.crosslink.net>...
> > These are a lot more than pure security lights.   They make it easier for
> > friends and family to find your place at night and to get back into their
> > cars after the visit.   Likewise, if you return home at night you can see to
> > get to your door and can "look the place over" before you get out of the
> > car.
>
> That is about the poorest rationalization for all-night lights there
> is.  They do absolutely _nothing_ that an on-off switch wouldn't do
> just as well when coupled with motion detector lights.  Switch on -
> visitors find place.  Come home, motion sensors light up the area for
> you.  Lot cheaper and you don't make a thief's job easier.

Or make your neighbors hate you.
--
Lou Boyd

Bob Adkins wrote:
>
> On Mon, 07 Oct 2002 23:01:26 -0600, Sylvia Steiger
> <SylviaRN@canadaREMOVETHIS.com> wrote:
>
> >> What do peopel think about very dim lights for security floods?
>
> I like them. I call them "stars".

Plus they're inexpensive and rarely burn out.  It's the best outdoor
lighting which exists next to the Sun. Dawn to dusk lighting is rather
handy.
--
Lou Boyd
Fairborn Observatory

John Gilmer wrote:
>
> >
> > That is about the poorest rationalization for all-night lights there
> > is.  They do absolutely _nothing_ that an on-off switch wouldn't do
> > just as well when coupled with motion detector lights.
>
> 1)   It has only been within the last 6 years or so the "motion detectors"
> have been reliable enough to even be considered as "protection."    My
> motion detectors flashes the lights on and off all night.   I know, replace
> it.   Wil, you replace it.   I don't feel lilke getting on top of a 10' step
> ladding until I absolutely have to.
>
> 2)   The power company lights are 100% maintained by the power company.
> Especially for old folks, they just don't have to worry or bother beyond
> calling the 800 number if the light doesn't come on.
>
> 3)   Your on/off switch will not turn the lights on until you are already
> well on the property.
>
> > Switch on -
> > visitors find place.  Come home, motion sensors light up the area for
> > you.  Lot cheaper and you don't make a thief's job easier.
>
> "Lot cheaper?   We are talking about $6 a month turnkey here.   It's hard to
> get "lot cheaper" than that.   It's still a good deal for seniors.
>
> Of course, you have making up thier "thief" stuff from whole cloth.   Rural
> break-ins are almost 100% from local teens and young adults.  They strike
> when they are sure that no one is home.   All night security lights permit
> neightbors and deputies to keep an eye on things.   Because of "false trips"
> motions detectors can not be considered an "alarm" condition.    All the
> teen has to do is freeze or drop when the light comes on and the "security
> light" will be ignored.

I'm thankful your not my neighbor.
--
Lou Boyd

>
> That is about the poorest rationalization for all-night lights there
> is.  They do absolutely _nothing_ that an on-off switch wouldn't do
> just as well when coupled with motion detector lights.

1)   It has only been within the last 6 years or so the "motion detectors"
have been reliable enough to even be considered as "protection."    My
motion detectors flashes the lights on and off all night.   I know, replace
it.   Wil, you replace it.   I don't feel lilke getting on top of a 10' step
ladding until I absolutely have to.

2)   The power company lights are 100% maintained by the power company.
Especially for old folks, they just don't have to worry or bother beyond
calling the 800 number if the light doesn't come on.

3)   Your on/off switch will not turn the lights on until you are already
well on the property.

> Switch on -
> visitors find place.  Come home, motion sensors light up the area for
> you.  Lot cheaper and you don't make a thief's job easier.

"Lot cheaper?   We are talking about $6 a month turnkey here.   It's hard to
get "lot cheaper" than that.   It's still a good deal for seniors.

Of course, you have making up thier "thief" stuff from whole cloth.   Rural
break-ins are almost 100% from local teens and young adults.  They strike
when they are sure that no one is home.   All night security lights permit
neightbors and deputies to keep an eye on things.   Because of "false trips"
motions detectors can not be considered an "alarm" condition.    All the
teen has to do is freeze or drop when the light comes on and the "security
light" will be ignored.

In article <MPG.180d541ab0fc4a4198a0d4@news.earthlink.net>, Larry Caldwell
<larryc@teleport.com> wrote:

> In article <3DA35F95.C81AEF03@apt0.sao.arizona.edu>,
> boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu writes:
>
> > Which side of the meter was it wired to?  They may have been paying more
> > than $6 per month for it.
>
> It was wired straight off the transformer, the typical yard light
> abomination that was on all night no matter if you wanted it or not.
>
> If it had been mine, I would have just rewired it with an on/off switch.
> Since it belonged to the power company, I had them take it away.

Actually you can put an 'off' switch on the power co light; just aim a
tight beam to the light sensor and it will think it'd day.

--
Free men own guns - slaves don't
http://www.geocities.com/nickhull99

In article <3DA3CC0F.442811E1@apt0.sao.arizona.edu>,
boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu writes:

> Does that include the extra lamps and fixtures that the annoyed
> neighbors shoot out?

Well now, I did hear something about teenagers being offered a bounty on
any mercury vapor lights still burning after midnight.

--
"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can
bribe the people with their own money."
                             -- Alexis de Tocquevile

In article <3DA44E70.E3E7367C@apt0.sao.arizona.edu>,
boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu writes:

> Or make your neighbors hate you.

Assuming you get off your duff and shoot out the neighbor's yard light,
there will be something to see at night.  The Leonid meteor shower is
coming up November 19.  Europe and North America will get the big show.
There will be a nice fanfare over Europe around 5:30 AM GMT, and a second
meteor storm over North America around 5:30 AM EST - 2:30 AM PST.

The Leonids are a debris cloud from comet Tempel-Tuttle.  The average
site will see 300 to 400 meteors an hour, and there is a chance of seeing
a blizzard of 2000 meteors an hour.

Unfortunately, the moon will be nearly full, and very high in the sky for
pacific coast watchers.  That's one honking big night light we can't
turn off.  Sigh.

--
"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can
bribe the people with their own money."
                             -- Alexis de Tocquevile