🚀 go-pugleaf

John,


> Are we really Bob Hawke's so called "clever
> country?" well I am not going to say either
> way because to do so might start a flame
> war, and we don't want that do we?
>
> But when you consider as of yesterday that
> we've lost any capacity to do things such
> as manufacture of arms and military items,
> since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> make steel.
>
> So God willing me and you are still around in
> the next twenty to thirty years what will this
> country be like?
>
> Now it's your turn.

we're clever enough not to have been born yanks....

so that's a start!!

--

Sky Rider
ODPS@cyberscriber.com

----------------------------------
Add *YOUR* favourites to the Online Dictionary of Playground
Slang
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----------------------------------

Sky Rider wrote:

> John,
>
> > Are we really Bob Hawke's so called "clever
> > country?" well I am not going to say either
> > way because to do so might start a flame
> > war, and we don't want that do we?
> >
> > But when you consider as of yesterday that
> > we've lost any capacity to do things such
> > as manufacture of arms and military items,
> > since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> > make steel.
> >
> > So God willing me and you are still around in
> > the next twenty to thirty years what will this
> > country be like?
> >
> > Now it's your turn.
>
> we're clever enough not to have been born yanks....
>
> so that's a start!!
>
> --
>
> Sky Rider
> ODPS@cyberscriber.com
>
> ----------------------------------
> Add *YOUR* favourites to the Online Dictionary of Playground
> Slang
> http://ODPS.CyberScriber.com
> ----------------------------------

..

John DLL <johndk@senet.com.au> wrote in message
news:37F42CA3.97F3504E@senet.com.au...
> Are we really Bob Hawke's so called "clever
> country?" well I am not going to say either
> way because to do so might start a flame
> war, and we don't want that do we?

I think he was referring to us beating the yanks at the Americas Cup.

> But when you consider as of yesterday that
> we've lost any capacity to do things such
> as manufacture of arms and military items,
> since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> make steel.

Australia has only a Regional Army. I think they should of ment a Dads army!
No offence to those men and women in our services is intended but our
military although well trained and disiplined are no match for a large scale
Regional conflict. I am an ex soldier (RAE) and morale was up to shit when I
left 8 years ago. A friend left 2 years ago and morale was the no better. I
do beleive that Australia should bring back National Service. Even though
though the Army is not keen for it It would mean that in times of war we
would be able to draw on people who have had previous training in warfare.
Indonesia has something like 100000 troops under arms. Australia is no match
if they decided to attack us. We can't rely on the Yanks to back us up at
the onset. Logistics are just enormous. We can't even keep out refo boats
let alone a determined military. So definite invasion would be highly
probable. We know what the Indonesian military did to the civilans of East
Timor, we couldn't expect anything less done to our people if they were on
our shores. Why has the Australian Military been re-deployed to the top half
of Australia over the years. Something to do with an attack coming from the
North I beleive. Perish the thought!

> So God willing me and you are still around in
> the next twenty to thirty years what will this
> country be like?

Could be speaking some sort of a foreign language, dead or maybe doing slave
labour?

Warren

John DLL <johndk@senet.com.au> wrote in message
news:37F42CA3.97F3504E@senet.com.au...
> Are we really Bob Hawke's so called "clever
> country?" well I am not going to say either
> way because to do so might start a flame
> war, and we don't want that do we?
>
> But when you consider as of yesterday that
> we've lost any capacity to do things such
> as manufacture of arms and military items,
> since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> make steel.

Really.......noone told me this and I work at Bisalloy
Steels and we made the steel for the subs and am now
contesting for the contract for the Armoured vehicles
( Bushranger project )
>
> So God willing me and you are still around in
> the next twenty to thirty years what will this
> country be like?

Hope I have gone by then.......who wants to live to be
an old fart like Chris    :-)
>
> Now it's your turn.
>
>

Will Sutton wrote:

> > But when you consider as of yesterday that
> > we've lost any capacity to do things such
> > as manufacture of arms and military items,
> > since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> > make steel.
>
> Really.......noone told me this and I work at Bisalloy
> Steels

'fraid it's true Will.   Each day you might *think* you are making
steel,  but in reality John knows better!

Sky Rider wrote:

> John,
>
> > Are we really Bob Hawke's so called "clever
> > country?" well I am not going to say either
> > way because to do so might start a flame
> > war, and we don't want that do we?
> >
> > But when you consider as of yesterday that
> > we've lost any capacity to do things such
> > as manufacture of arms and military items,
> > since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> > make steel.
> >
> > So God willing me and you are still around in
> > the next twenty to thirty years what will this
> > country be like?
> >
> > Now it's your turn.
>
> we're clever enough not to have been born yanks....
>
> so that's a start!!
>

Yet not clever enough to recognize you didn't have
much choice.

Rick

rjshank@postoffice.swbell.net wrote:
>
> Sky Rider wrote:
>
> > John,
> >
> > > Are we really Bob Hawke's so called "clever
> > > country?" well I am not going to say either
> > > way because to do so might start a flame
> > > war, and we don't want that do we?
> > >
> > > But when you consider as of yesterday that
> > > we've lost any capacity to do things such
> > > as manufacture of arms and military items,
> > > since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> > > make steel.
> > >
> > > So God willing me and you are still around in
> > > the next twenty to thirty years what will this
> > > country be like?
> > >
> > > Now it's your turn.
> >
> > we're clever enough not to have been born yanks....
> >
> > so that's a start!!
> >
>
> Yet not clever enough to recognize you didn't have
> much choice.
>
> Rick

..

In article <37F42CA3.97F3504E@senet.com.au>,
  John DLL <johndk@senet.com.au> wrote:
> Are we really Bob Hawke's so called "clever
> country?"

Not if you, Major Blunder and Bruce Cowan
manage to round up all those useless penicillan
inventing akkerdemiks and get them out digging
real ditches!

After the interleckturals are dealt with, whose next
on the goose stepping march to Year Zero?

> well I am not going to say either
> way because to do so might start a flame
> war, and we don't want that do we?

Not if you have already used all the words you
know without reference to a Dikshunary ritten
by wun ov them akkerdemiks.    ;-)

> But when you consider as of yesterday that
> we've lost any capacity to do things

That may be either your creeping althzeimers
or the fact you have run out of viagra.

(You were meant to take them one at a time.. Orally!)

> such as manufacture of arms and military items,

I have my full quota of arms.. but I'm not sure
you have the regulation load of cerebral ammunition!

> since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> make steel.

Abandoned by our very own trans-national!
You just can't trust those private corporations!


> So God willing me and you are still around in
> the next twenty to thirty years what will this
> country be like?

Firmly ensconced in the information age, trading
globally with those passing through the steel
making stage of industrialization we suppose.

>
> Now it's your turn.

nah, Ive never made steel, it makes more sense
to specialise

Che
----
Tory privatization policy: "Sell it to someone we own"


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 21:33:09 -0500, rjshank@postoffice.swbell.net
wrote:

>> we're clever enough not to have been born yanks....

>
>Yet not clever enough to recognize you didn't have
>much choice.

Speak for yourself, I am Australian by choice not an accident of
birth.

regards
Bruce

http://www.ozemail.com.au/~bcl

rick,


> > we're clever enough not to have been born yanks....
>
> > so that's a start!!
>
> Yet not clever enough to recognize you didn't have
> much choice.

our parents mostly chose to come here rather than America...

and genetics worked its magic so here we are

alive and gun free

... AND we have nice weather

<g>

clever or what??

--

Sky Rider
ODPS@cyberscriber.com

----------------------------------
Add *YOUR* favourites to the Online Dictionary of Playground
Slang
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----------------------------------

John writes:


Sky Rider wrote:

> Russ,
>
> > > > But when you consider as of yesterday that
> > > > we've lost any capacity to do things such
> > > > as manufacture of arms and military items,
> > > > since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> > > > make steel.
> > >
> > > Really.......noone told me this and I work at Bisalloy
> > > Steels
> >
> > 'fraid it's true Will.   Each day you might *think* you are making
> > steel,  but in reality John knows better!



Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I never said you did not make steel, just that now with the
closure of that plant in Newcastle that was on the news our
major source of steel is now well and truly knackered.

Could the smaller steel plants that surround the country
keep up the demand in a time of war if that ever happened?

Warren <Warren@never.com.au> wrote in message
news:Ou1J3.1851$lE.12654@ozemail.com.au...
>
> John DLL <johndk@senet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:37F42CA3.97F3504E@senet.com.au...
> > Are we really Bob Hawke's so called "clever
> > country?" well I am not going to say either
> > way because to do so might start a flame
> > war, and we don't want that do we?
>
> I think he was referring to us beating the yanks at the Americas Cup.
>
> > But when you consider as of yesterday that
> > we've lost any capacity to do things such
> > as manufacture of arms and military items,
> > since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> > make steel.
>
> Australia has only a Regional Army. I think they should of ment a Dads
army!
> No offence to those men and women in our services is intended but our
> military although well trained and disiplined are no match for a large
scale
> Regional conflict. I am an ex soldier (RAE) and morale was up to shit when
I
> left 8 years ago. A friend left 2 years ago and morale was the no better.
I
> do beleive that Australia should bring back National Service.
How is that going to improve morale?  A whole lot of people who dont want to
be there with a whole lot of people who dont want them to be there.

Surely making being a professional soldier a lucrative occupation would be
better.   Seems that the motivated soldier has always been able to rise to
the top.  He then becomes a specialist or leaves for a position in private
enterprise.

> Even though the Army is not keen for it It would mean that in times of war
we
> would be able to draw on people who have had previous training in warfare.
> Indonesia has something like 100000 troops under arms. Australia is no
match
> if they decided to attack us. We can't rely on the Yanks to back us up at
> the onset. Logistics are just enormous. We can't even keep out refo boats
> let alone a determined military. So definite invasion would be highly
> probable. We know what the Indonesian military did to the civilans of East
> Timor, we couldn't expect anything less done to our people if they were on
> our shores. Why has the Australian Military been re-deployed to the top
half
> of Australia over the years. Something to do with an attack coming from
the
> North I beleive. Perish the thought!

Nah, more likely because of climate, they are more likely to be required to
serve in the tropics rather than in the south.

> > So God willing me and you are still around in
> > the next twenty to thirty years what will this
> > country be like?
>
> Could be speaking some sort of a foreign language, dead or maybe doing
slave
> labour?

The yellow peril?  Every adult person in australia mobilised, trained etc
would not keep out a determined chinese invasion.   But keeping in mind that
most of this country is arrid and unable to sustain intensive agriculture,
the question arises why?

Just my $50 worth anyway.........



John Mares
>

Russ,


> > > But when you consider as of yesterday that
> > > we've lost any capacity to do things such
> > > as manufacture of arms and military items,
> > > since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> > > make steel.
> >
> > Really.......noone told me this and I work at Bisalloy
> > Steels
>
> 'fraid it's true Will.   Each day you might *think* you are making
> steel,  but in reality John knows better!

it's all a government plot!!

(I'll ignore Will's other comments <g>)


--

Sky Rider
ODPS@cyberscriber.com

----------------------------------
Add *YOUR* favourites to the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang
http://ODPS.CyberScriber.com
----------------------------------

> The yellow peril?  Every adult person in australia mobilised, trained etc
> would not keep out a determined chinese invasion.   But keeping in mind
that
> most of this country is arrid and unable to sustain intensive agriculture,
> the question arises why?

Of Course, I am sure you aren't saying that the Chinese would be willing to
invade us (there is the diplomatic part of my message)

Now, the reasons why we would be overtakeable (if that is a word)...

We are a stepping stone to the world, we are near Asia, have access to the
two largest oceans in the world. We could possibly act as a base of
operations to attack Asian countries from both sides. The lage areas of
desert etc could provide a could cover for any Air Bases or missile ranks
any invading force may want to have in our base of operations country. From
our largish country, naval fleets would then proceed onto Egypt and Panama.
These two countries are important so that any naval vessels from the US and
NATO, or other countries couldn't move from the Atlantic Theatre to the
Pacific or Indian Theatres or vice versa. Possibly this force would destroy
Suez canal, but leave the Panama canal gaurded by subs and other warships as
well as ground forces inside the control areas at the canal itself. A
hastily constructed Air Base would provide for reconnasance for the area, as
well as a second base of temporary operations for the Atlantic and a command
centre for any kind of operations in Europe or the eastern half of the US.
If any kind of force can penetrate the US, they will have control of many of
the things that the US threatens the world with, nukes, missiles, aircraft
etc

Australia is a stepping stone to the US and then to the world. Don't be
surprised if the world starts speaking [insert langauge here]


> Just my $50 worth anyway.........

I see your $50 and raise you $250

Greg

--
gl_au
----------------------------
Today in the news: Nuclear accident in Japan. ARRGGHHH

On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:08:11 +0930, John DLL <johndk@senet.com.au>
wrote:

>But when you consider as of yesterday that
>we've lost any capacity to do things such
>as manufacture of arms and military items,
>since as of yesterday we now no longer even
>make steel.

Gee, I must tell my colleagues at Port Kembla Steelworks that we don't
make steel any more. And there we were thinking that we could make 5
million tonnes a year, silly us. Thank goodness you were able to put
us right John.

regards
Bruce

http://www.ozemail.com.au/~bcl

John DLL <johndk@senet.com.au> wrote in message
news:37F61462.4FF37A6D@senet.com.au...
> John writes:
>
>
> Sky Rider wrote:
>
> > Russ,
> >
> > > > > But when you consider as of yesterday that
> > > > > we've lost any capacity to do things such
> > > > > as manufacture of arms and military items,
> > > > > since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> > > > > make steel.
> > > >
> > > > Really.......noone told me this and I work at Bisalloy
> > > > Steels
> > >
> > > 'fraid it's true Will.   Each day you might *think* you are making
> > > steel,  but in reality John knows better!
>
>
>
> Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I never said you did not make steel, just that now with the
> closure of that plant in Newcastle that was on the news our
> major source of steel is now well and truly knackered.

Newcastle has not been our major source for plenty
of years, its been Pt Kembla that has been doing that

>
> Could the smaller steel plants that surround the country
> keep up the demand in a time of war if that ever happened?

You don't know much do you............the Steelworks at Port Kembla
emply approx 6000 ( with about 5000 contracyers ).  Its not a small
place.

John Mares <psd@customized.com.getridofthis.lot> wrote in message
news:U69J3.2054$lE.13541@ozemail.com.au...
>
> Warren <Warren@never.com.au> wrote in message
> news:Ou1J3.1851$lE.12654@ozemail.com.au...
> >
> > John DLL <johndk@senet.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:37F42CA3.97F3504E@senet.com.au...
> > > Are we really Bob Hawke's so called "clever
> > > country?" well I am not going to say either
> > > way because to do so might start a flame
> > > war, and we don't want that do we?
> >
> > I think he was referring to us beating the yanks at the Americas Cup.
> >
> > > But when you consider as of yesterday that
> > > we've lost any capacity to do things such
> > > as manufacture of arms and military items,
> > > since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> > > make steel.
> >
> > Australia has only a Regional Army. I think they should of ment a Dads
> army!
> > No offence to those men and women in our services is intended but our
> > military although well trained and disiplined are no match for a large
> scale
> > Regional conflict. I am an ex soldier (RAE) and morale was up to shit
when
> I
> > left 8 years ago. A friend left 2 years ago and morale was the no
better.
> I
> > do beleive that Australia should bring back National Service.
> How is that going to improve morale?  A whole lot of people who dont want
to
> be there with a whole lot of people who dont want them to be there.
>
> Surely making being a professional soldier a lucrative occupation would be
> better.   Seems that the motivated soldier has always been able to rise to
> the top.  He then becomes a specialist or leaves for a position in private
> enterprise.

He was a career soilder. Unfortunatley and very typical of the Australian
Army, they kept passing him over for promotion even though he had all the
experience and qualifications for the promotion. My friend doesn't believe
in kissing ass, just doing the job right! He now is an OH&S instructor for a
Victorian based company. As for me, I did get offered a good position
working for a multi-national company which persuaded me to leave the
service.

> > Even though the Army is not keen for it It would mean that in times of
war
> we
> > would be able to draw on people who have had previous training in
warfare.
> > Indonesia has something like 100000 troops under arms. Australia is no
> match
> > if they decided to attack us. We can't rely on the Yanks to back us up
at
> > the onset. Logistics are just enormous. We can't even keep out refo
boats
> > let alone a determined military. So definite invasion would be highly
> > probable. We know what the Indonesian military did to the civilans of
East
> > Timor, we couldn't expect anything less done to our people if they were
on
> > our shores. Why has the Australian Military been re-deployed to the top
> half
> > of Australia over the years. Something to do with an attack coming from
> the
> > North I beleive. Perish the thought!
>
> Nah, more likely because of climate, they are more likely to be required
to
> serve in the tropics rather than in the south.

No, that was not the reason pointed out to me by a Major from 21 Const HQ
for 'us' moving North! We didn't run around the bush fighting the invisable
'Orange Army' for nothing! If the so called 'Orange Army' materialised, it
is no good being based in the south of the country.

> > > So God willing me and you are still around in
> > > the next twenty to thirty years what will this
> > > country be like?
> >
> > Could be speaking some sort of a foreign language, dead or maybe doing
> slave
> > labour?
>
> The yellow peril?  Every adult person in australia mobilised, trained etc
> would not keep out a determined chinese invasion.   But keeping in mind
that
> most of this country is arrid and unable to sustain intensive agriculture,
> the question arises why?

No mention of the 'Yellow Peril' since the end of the Pacific War of WWII.
No China either! Australias closet military threat in this day and age is
Indonesia.  We all know what the Gulf war was about don't we. Australia and
Indonesia for years have been disputing over the substantial oil deposits
located in the Timor Sea and who it 'belongs to'. A subject I haven't heard
discussed for some years in the Australian media? I wonder why?? Maybe it is
a very touchy thing for countries when it comes to crude oil. Thus
Australias interest hidden behind the humanitarian deployment of our forces
to East Timor. Crude oil keeps the gears turning in the Western World.

> Just my $50 worth anyway.........

Your more than welcome. At least your opinion is constructed unlike most of
these other 'Tossers' in this NG.

Warren

On Sat, 02 Oct 1999 23:49:14 +0930, John DLL <johndk@senet.com.au>
wrote:

>I never said you did not make steel,

I quote from your original message, "since as of yesterday we now no
longer even make steel." What other interpretation can you put on
that?

>just that now with the
>closure of that plant in Newcastle that was on the news our
>major source of steel is now well and truly knackered.

Bleep! wrong again. Newcastle was an antiquated plant BHP had allowed
to run down. Port Kembla is the jewel in the BHP crown (Anderson's
words not mine).

regards
Bruce

http://www.ozemail.com.au/~bcl

Sky Rider wrote:
>
> rick,
>
> > > we're clever enough not to have been born yanks....
> >
> > > so that's a start!!
> >
> > Yet not clever enough to recognize you didn't have
> > much choice.
>
> our parents mostly chose to come here rather than America...
>
> and genetics worked its magic so here we are
>
> alive and gun free
>
> ... AND we have nice weather
>
> <g>
>
> clever or what??
>
> --
>
> Sky Rider
> ODPS@cyberscriber.com
>
> ----------------------------------
> Add *YOUR* favourites to the Online Dictionary of Playground
> Slang
> http://ODPS.CyberScriber.com
> ----------------------------------

..

John,


> Sky Rider wrote:

<snip>

me??

I didn't say that!

--

Sky Rider
ODPS@cyberscriber.com

----------------------------------
Add *YOUR* favourites to the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang
http://ODPS.CyberScriber.com
----------------------------------

In article <06dJ3.70$lN1.3670@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>, gl_au
<gl_au@yahoo.com> wrote:


> If any kind of force can penetrate the US, they will have control of many of
> the things that the US threatens the world with, nukes, missiles, aircraft
> etc

    It is not possible to penetrate the USA due to its heavily armed
population.  It's too hostile for convential forces which is why I
suspect there is so push to disarm the American people.  We're a power
to reckon with irregardless of the Pentagon.

John DLL <johndk@senet.com.au> wrote in message
news:37F61462.4FF37A6D@senet.com.au...
<snip>
> Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is where you should have stopped and applied the rule of holes.

> I never said you did not make steel, just that now with the
> closure of that plant in Newcastle that was on the news our
> major source of steel is now well and truly knackered.
>
> Could the smaller steel plants that surround the country
> keep up the demand in a time of war if that ever happened?
>
>


John Mares

tism had an ep that summed it up best
Australia you clever c**t

John DLL wrote:

> Are we really Bob Hawke's so called "clever
> country?" well I am not going to say either
> way because to do so might start a flame
> war, and we don't want that do we?
>
> But when you consider as of yesterday that
> we've lost any capacity to do things such
> as manufacture of arms and military items,
> since as of yesterday we now no longer even
> make steel.
>
> So God willing me and you are still around in
> the next twenty to thirty years what will this
> country be like?
>
> Now it's your turn.

gl_au wrote:
>
> Ms. Morrow <chowbabe@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:041019991724165927%chowbabe@pacbell.net...
> > In article <06dJ3.70$lN1.3670@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>, gl_au
> > <gl_au@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > If any kind of force can penetrate the US, they will have control of
> many of  the things that the US threatens the world with, nukes, missiles,
> aircraft etc
> >
> >     It is not possible to penetrate the USA due to its heavily armed
> > population.  It's too hostile for convential forces which is why I
> > suspect there is so push to disarm the American people.  We're a power
> > to reckon with irregardless of the Pentagon.
>
> You wish, without military control you'd end up shooting each other in the
> head because you feel that it is important to do that for security.
> Basically you yanks are pricks. End of story.

And now all you aussies are deputy pricks now, aren't you?
At least that's what Howard says.

Now go be good little deputies and finish cleaning up Timor for us.

--

__________________________________________________WWS_____________

Idiocy abhors a vacuum, but it also abhors a room full of
people it isn't currently in, and so crashes the party. - jdn

gl_au wrote:
>
> > > You wish, without military control you'd end up shooting each other in
> the head because you feel that it is important to do that for security.
> > > Basically you yanks are pricks. End of story.
> >
> > And now all you aussies are deputy pricks now, aren't you?
> > At least that's what Howard says.
> >
> > Now go be good little deputies and finish cleaning up Timor for us.
>
> That title was coined by a tabloid magazine. Do you believe in tabloid
> magazines and newspapers? If you do your an idiot. And guess what, the
> term that you stand by makes you an idiot.

The Bulletin is a little bit more than just a tabloid.  Or is your
Prime Minister in the habit of giving exclusive interviews outlining
major policy positions to tabloids?
>
> WOW, how easily we deduced that.

How about backing up your statements with facts?  Here's a few excerpts
from recent news articles:

> The comments followed remarks by Australian Prime
> Minister  John Howard in an interview published in the
> latest edition of  the Australian weekly news magazine
> "The Bulletin."

>  Under the headline "The Howard Defence Doctrine," the
>  Australian Prime Minister outlined a "deputy"
>  peacekeeping  capacity in the region to the global
>  policeman role of the  United States.

Now, this position was extremely unpopular and your PM was forced
to crawfish extensively.  But I would say that the remarks were
serious enough that almost every country in the region, especially
Malaysia, took them very seriously and reacted accordingly.  Not
the kind of reaction one would expect from the average tabloid
article - of course tabloids usually do not get exclusive interviews
with the PM, do they?

In fact, here is another current news article, from abc.com, outlining
the fallout of the remarks:


> Australia initially received widespread political credit for
> its role in organising and leading the 7,500-strong
> multinational force restoring law and order to East Timor.

> But political commentators have said the new assertive
> stance has been accompanied by rather too much hubris.

> Australian news magazine The Bulletin extrapolated the
> "Howard Doctrine," from an interview with the prime
> minister  last week, to mean Australia would be the
> deputy to the United  States as regional policeman.

> Howard has devoted much political effort this week to
> burying the short-lived doctrine, but it continues to
> provoke  considerable resentment among Asian
> politicians, who have  branded it "arrogant."

> Malaysian opposition leader Lim Kit Siang said on
> Tuesday  the fact that Australia could even think in such
> terms was a  sign of political naivety.

> "The burial of the Howard Doctrine of Australia as the
> deputy sheriff in Asia to the U.S. as global policeman
> should be  a lesson to the Australian government that it
> has not yet  developed the mind-set to be accepted as an
> Asian nation," he  said.


Maybe you've just fallen for your politicians easy assurances,
saying "Never mind, it was just a joke, we didn't say that!"

Hint:  Don't believe everything they tell you.  Aussie politicians
aren't any better than the US kind.

--

__________________________________________________WWS_____________

Idiocy abhors a vacuum, but it also abhors a room full of
people it isn't currently in, and so crashes the party. - jdn

Ms. Morrow,


> > If any kind of force can penetrate the US, they will have control of many of
> > the things that the US threatens the world with, nukes, missiles, aircraft
> > etc
>
>     It is not possible to penetrate the USA due to its heavily armed
> population.  It's too hostile for convential forces which is why I
> suspect there is so push to disarm the American people.  We're a power
> to reckon with irregardless of the Pentagon.

but why would an enemy bother invading a country that's so close to total social
collapse.... anarchy.... without any effort on their part??

.... that's assuming anyone would even want the place!!

--

Sky Rider
ODPS@cyberscriber.com

----------------------------------
Add *YOUR* favourites to the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang
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Ms. Morrow <chowbabe@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:041019991724165927%chowbabe@pacbell.net...
> In article <06dJ3.70$lN1.3670@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>, gl_au
> <gl_au@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> > If any kind of force can penetrate the US, they will have control of
many of
> > the things that the US threatens the world with, nukes, missiles,
aircraft
> > etc
>
>     It is not possible to penetrate the USA due to its heavily armed
> population.  It's too hostile for convential forces which is why I
> suspect there is so push to disarm the American people.  We're a power
> to reckon with irregardless of the Pentagon.

You wish, without military control you;d end up shooting each other in the
head because you feel that it is important to do that for security.
Basically you yanks are pricks. End of story.

Greg

--
gl_au
----------------------------
Today in the news:

Sky Rider <ODPS@CyberScriber.com> wrote in message
news:37F94EB2.5FEC07AB@CyberScriber.com...
> Ms. Morrow,
>
>
> > > If any kind of force can penetrate the US, they will have control of
many of
> > > the things that the US threatens the world with, nukes, missiles,
aircraft
> > > etc
> >
> >     It is not possible to penetrate the USA due to its heavily armed
> > population.  It's too hostile for convential forces which is why I
> > suspect there is so push to disarm the American people.  We're a power
> > to reckon with irregardless of the Pentagon.
>
> but why would an enemy bother invading a country that's so close to total
social
> collapse.... anarchy.... without any effort on their part??
>
> .... that's assuming anyone would even want the place!!

Restore order perhaps? The US needs a good 'friend' to come in and sort them
out. I know, wipe out the brain dead gun toting part of the country, and
lets all have a lot of free space on the net (-:

It is a fact, that China has 1 billion people and the US with far fewer
people uses the same amount of water as China. How is that? US are wasteful
people.

Greg

--
gl_au
----------------------------
Today in the news:

WWS <wschmidt@tyler.net> wrote in message
news:37FA865A.D0D1D7F5@tyler.net...
> Maybe you've just fallen for your politicians easy assurances,
> saying "Never mind, it was just a joke, we didn't say that!"
>
> Hint:  Don't believe everything they tell you.  Aussie politicians
> aren't any better than the US kind.


I will agree that Howard is a bit of a joke.  But all these moronic things
he says have no relevance to what Australia is trying to achieve in East
Timor.  Notice how since Australia came in all the violence and killing have
all but stopped?

Troy

WWS <wschmidt@tyler.net> writes:
...
>Now, this position was extremely unpopular and your PM was forced
>to crawfish extensively.  But I would say that the remarks were
                                               *************
>serious enough that almost every country in the region, especially
>Malaysia, took them very seriously and reacted accordingly.  Not
>the kind of reaction one would expect from the average tabloid
>article - of course tabloids usually do not get exclusive interviews
>with the PM, do they?
...

Please quote these remarks -- I for one  -- would sure like to
see exactly what Mr Howard is supposed to have said.

Elsewhere, in Parliament the leader of the Opposition, Mr Beazley,
seemed to indicate the journalist in question may have a reputation
for "exaggerating" various points in interviews. You know, like 60 minutes.

He told Parliament (in not-very-complimentary terms, of course,
since he didn't believe the PM could be so easily "verballed")
the scenario according to *his* understanding was the writer had
asked the PM 3 or 4 times "do you consider AUstralia to be the US's
deputy". On at least one occasion the writer is said to have claimed
"the Prime Minister completed my sentence -- he was agreeing with me".

I.e. the sequence went:

Journo: "Is Australia acting as a deputy for the US..."
PM: "... in the region (?)"

Presumably the question needed to be asked a few times because the PM
didn't give the "appropriate" response right away.

And the journalist was happy to go and write
"The PM considers Australia to be the US's Deputy Sheriff in the region"
and title it "The Howard Doctrine".

I'd rather be known as the clever c**t than a dumb c**t who can't understand
how the metric system works and thus waste vast amounts of a societies money
plunging it into another planet!

Warren

CJ <chrisjjNOSPAM@start.com.au> wrote in message
news:37F9CD5A.BD97B11A@start.com.au...
> tism had an ep that summed it up best
> Australia you clever c**t

> > You wish, without military control you'd end up shooting each other in
the
> > head because you feel that it is important to do that for security.
> > Basically you yanks are pricks. End of story.
>
> And now all you aussies are deputy pricks now, aren't you?
> At least that's what Howard says.
>
> Now go be good little deputies and finish cleaning up Timor for us.

That title was coined by a tabloid magazine. Do you believe in tabloid
magazines and newspapers? If you do your an idiot. And guess what, the term
that you stand by makes you an idiot.

WOW, how easily we deduced that.

Greg

--
gl_au
----------------------------
Today in the news:

WWS,

<snip>


> Hint:  Don't believe everything they tell you.  Aussie politicians
> aren't any better than the US kind.

I think they are...

.. at least they've managed to take ahuge amount of guns out of the hands of the
general population...

and that is no bad thing!!

--

Sky Rider
ODPS@cyberscriber.com

----------------------------------
Add *YOUR* favourites to the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang
http://ODPS.CyberScriber.com
----------------------------------

Kym HORSELL wrote:
>
> WWS <wschmidt@tyler.net> writes:
> ...
> >Now, this position was extremely unpopular and your PM was forced
> >to crawfish extensively.  But I would say that the remarks were
>                                                *************
> >serious enough that almost every country in the region, especially
> >Malaysia, took them very seriously and reacted accordingly.  Not
> >the kind of reaction one would expect from the average tabloid
> >article - of course tabloids usually do not get exclusive interviews
> >with the PM, do they?
> ...
>
> Please quote these remarks -- I for one  -- would sure like to
> see exactly what Mr Howard is supposed to have said.

In politics, Mr. Howard is learning the difficult lesson that what
people think you said is frequently more important than what you
really said.  It's harsh and unfair, but it's also very often true.
>
> Elsewhere, in Parliament the leader of the Opposition, Mr Beazley,
> seemed to indicate the journalist in question may have a reputation
> for "exaggerating" various points in interviews. You know, like 60 minutes.

Like every political reporter for every news organization everywhere.
That's their job.  Most politicians take this for granted, and adjust
their comments accordingly.  (except for the boneheads - most notable
current US examples are Jesse Ventura and Pat Buchanon)
>
> He told Parliament (in not-very-complimentary terms, of course,
> since he didn't believe the PM could be so easily "verballed")
> the scenario according to *his* understanding was the writer had
> asked the PM 3 or 4 times "do you consider AUstralia to be the US's
> deputy". On at least one occasion the writer is said to have claimed
> "the Prime Minister completed my sentence -- he was agreeing with me".
>
> I.e. the sequence went:
>
> Journo: "Is Australia acting as a deputy for the US..."
> PM: "... in the region (?)"
>
> Presumably the question needed to be asked a few times because the PM
> didn't give the "appropriate" response right away.
>
> And the journalist was happy to go and write
> "The PM considers Australia to be the US's Deputy Sheriff in the region"
> and title it "The Howard Doctrine".

And why didn't the PM have an agreement to vette the article before
publication?  That's what most public figures do before anything affecting
foreign policy can ever see publication.  It takes an incredible
amount of naivette to not realize that this is how the system works. (or
doesn't work, depending on your POV)

The price of that naivette is a week full of embarrassing retractions
and a lot of pissed off neighbors.

--

__________________________________________________WWS_____________

Idiocy abhors a vacuum, but it also abhors a room full of
people it isn't currently in, and so crashes the party. - jdn

On Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:07:19 +1000, "PigDog" <laichzeit@bigpond.com>
wrote:

>WWS <wschmidt@tyler.net> wrote in message
>news:37FA865A.D0D1D7F5@tyler.net...
>> Maybe you've just fallen for your politicians easy assurances,
>> saying "Never mind, it was just a joke, we didn't say that!"
>>
>> Hint:  Don't believe everything they tell you.  Aussie politicians
>> aren't any better than the US kind.
>
>
>I will agree that Howard is a bit of a joke.  But all these moronic things
>he says have no relevance to what Australia is trying to achieve in East
>Timor.  Notice how since Australia came in all the violence and killing have
>all but stopped?
>
No.

But it also raises the question of just how much killing there really
was.

Remember during the NATO attacks on Serbia the claims that "half a
million Kosovo men of military age have disappeared"? They've all
turned up again. Rtaher remarkable case of resurection? Or lies?

A report a week ago of a well that contained "up to 30 bodies of
murdered East Timorese" now turns out to have had just ONE body in it.
A case of poor counting? Or more lies?

Remeber the reports that Gusmao's father had been killed by militia?
Turns out the old man is alive and well. Mistaken identity? Or even
more lies?

>Troy
>
>

Sky Rider <ODPS@CyberScriber.com> wrote in message
news:37F94EB2.5FEC07AB@CyberScriber.com...
> Ms. Morrow,
>
>
> > > If any kind of force can penetrate the US, they will have control of
many of
> > > the things that the US threatens the world with, nukes, missiles,
aircraft
> > > etc
> >
> >     It is not possible to penetrate the USA due to its heavily armed
> > population.  It's too hostile for convential forces which is why I
> > suspect there is so push to disarm the American people.  We're a power
> > to reckon with irregardless of the Pentagon.
>
> but why would an enemy bother invading a country that's so close to total
social
> collapse.... anarchy.... without any effort on their part??
>
> .... that's assuming anyone would even want the place!!


I think that what he meant was that the U.S. population has many state
militias that are organized locally and would provide partisan defence. I do
not necessarily condone militias as such but it sure is comforting to know
that there is a crazy group of wing nuts in nothern michigan who would be
more than happy to defend against any invaders. :)

WWS <wschmidt@tyler.net> writes:
...
>In politics, Mr. Howard is learning the difficult lesson that what
>people think you said is frequently more important than what you
>really said.  It's harsh and unfair, but it's also very often true.

I think with several decades in politics Mr Howard knows that lesson already.
And I gather that's the basis for at least some of the criticism from
the Opposition, some other part being that it took a week for the PM and/or
his office to repudiate the Bulletin article.

>...
--
R. Kym Horsell
KHorsell@EE.LaTrobe.EDU.AU                  Kym@CS.Binghamton.EDU
http://www.ee.latrobe.edu.au/~khorsell      http://cs.binghamton.edu/~kym

Just a bit of clarification on American States having their own militia,
they are referred to as the National Guard! Something that Australia could
look at doing. After all, before Australia had a regular army each state had
their own regiments which each State took care of!

Warren

Bernie Sturgeon <DavidSturgeon1@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:Ow#aihSE$GA.322@cpmsnbbsa05...
>
> Sky Rider <ODPS@CyberScriber.com> wrote in message
> news:37F94EB2.5FEC07AB@CyberScriber.com...
> > Ms. Morrow,
> >
> >
> > > > If any kind of force can penetrate the US, they will have control of
> many of
> > > > the things that the US threatens the world with, nukes, missiles,
> aircraft
> > > > etc
> > >
> > >     It is not possible to penetrate the USA due to its heavily armed
> > > population.  It's too hostile for convential forces which is why I
> > > suspect there is so push to disarm the American people.  We're a power
> > > to reckon with irregardless of the Pentagon.
> >
> > but why would an enemy bother invading a country that's so close to
total
> social
> > collapse.... anarchy.... without any effort on their part??
> >
> > .... that's assuming anyone would even want the place!!
>
>
> I think that what he meant was that the U.S. population has many state
> militias that are organized locally and would provide partisan defence. I
do
> not necessarily condone militias as such but it sure is comforting to know
> that there is a crazy group of wing nuts in nothern michigan who would be
> more than happy to defend against any invaders. :)
>
>

Bernie,


> > but why would an enemy bother invading a country that's so close to total
> social
> > collapse.... anarchy.... without any effort on their part??
>
> > .... that's assuming anyone would even want the place!!
>
> I think that what he meant was that the U.S. population has many state
> militias that are organized locally and would provide partisan defence. I do
> not necessarily condone militias as such but it sure is comforting to know
> that there is a crazy group of wing nuts in nothern michigan who would be
> more than happy to defend against any invaders. :)

which is ok until they get the idea that the "enemy" is actually the state
itself...

... then... anarchy!!

--

Sky Rider
ODPS@cyberscriber.com

----------------------------------
Add *YOUR* favourites to the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang
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----------------------------------

Well Australia does have the Army Reserve.




Warren <Warren@never.com.au> wrote in message
news:tTfL3.13352$lE.40803@ozemail.com.au...
> Just a bit of clarification on American States having their own militia,
> they are referred to as the National Guard! Something that Australia could
> look at doing. After all, before Australia had a regular army each state
had
> their own regiments which each State took care of!
>
> Warren
>
> Bernie Sturgeon <DavidSturgeon1@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> news:Ow#aihSE$GA.322@cpmsnbbsa05...
> >
> > Sky Rider <ODPS@CyberScriber.com> wrote in message
> > news:37F94EB2.5FEC07AB@CyberScriber.com...
> > > Ms. Morrow,
> > >
> > >
> > > > > If any kind of force can penetrate the US, they will have control
of
> > many of
> > > > > the things that the US threatens the world with, nukes, missiles,
> > aircraft
> > > > > etc
> > > >
> > > >     It is not possible to penetrate the USA due to its heavily armed
> > > > population.  It's too hostile for convential forces which is why I
> > > > suspect there is so push to disarm the American people.  We're a
power
> > > > to reckon with irregardless of the Pentagon.
> > >
> > > but why would an enemy bother invading a country that's so close to
> total
> > social
> > > collapse.... anarchy.... without any effort on their part??
> > >
> > > .... that's assuming anyone would even want the place!!
> >
> >
> > I think that what he meant was that the U.S. population has many state
> > militias that are organized locally and would provide partisan defence.
I
> do
> > not necessarily condone militias as such but it sure is comforting to
know
> > that there is a crazy group of wing nuts in nothern michigan who would
be
> > more than happy to defend against any invaders. :)
> >
> >
>
>

Bernie Sturgeon wrote in message ...
>
>Sky Rider <ODPS@CyberScriber.com> wrote in message
>news:37F94EB2.5FEC07AB@CyberScriber.com...
>> Ms. Morrow,
>>
>>
>> > > If any kind of force can penetrate the US, they will have control of
>many of
>> > > the things that the US threatens the world with, nukes, missiles,
>aircraft
>> > > etc
>> >
>> >     It is not possible to penetrate the USA due to its heavily armed
>> > population.  It's too hostile for convential forces which is why I
>> > suspect there is so push to disarm the American people.  We're a power
>> > to reckon with irregardless of the Pentagon.
>>
>> but why would an enemy bother invading a country that's so close to total
>social
>> collapse.... anarchy.... without any effort on their part??
>>
>> .... that's assuming anyone would even want the place!!
>
>
>I think that what he meant was that the U.S. population has many state
>militias that are organized locally and would provide partisan defence. I
do
>not necessarily condone militias as such but it sure is comforting to know
>that there is a crazy group of wing nuts in nothern michigan who would be
>more than happy to defend against any invaders. :)
>
>it is true that the US and A have spend huge amount of money
to make a defense force against any invader....
however they have no defense whatsoever against
internal conflict.
USSR  was also such a power and they did have an eternal
defense system but even that cracked under the People Power
pressure and the mighty power crumpled in weeks..
it will take less time then that for the USA to go the same way
due to the extra infighting ..not only between the states but
also between religions, races, cultures and anything at all
dividing the People.  As you said they public are heavy armed
and a revolution would be bloody. The USSR did NOT have that problem but
still crumpled.  Many Places go through the same problem now, Indonesia,
Malaysia, The Balkans, Middle east, Africa,and just about everywhere. The
question in not if the US will crash..but when.
Even Australia is on its way.  The Governments wanting more and more Power
and give the same to their Police. By doing so they have created a
Dictatorship where they are the bosses and the pupil are the servants. The
Public will not tolerate that much longer and People Power will explode. The
Election in Victoria just showed how unpredictable the People have become.
The unexpected support for ONE NATION party was another. The Issue of
Republic will soon show its real problems as the Politician WANT to control
who shall be President and refuse to lissn to the People who want to chose
him/her themselves,  and are not even given the choice in the forthcoming
ballot
I can see the People Power hitting the streets very soon.
PEM.

PEM <MINCKE@bigpond.com> wrote:

> Bernie Sturgeon wrote in message ...
> >
> >Sky Rider <ODPS@CyberScriber.com> wrote in message
> >news:37F94EB2.5FEC07AB@CyberScriber.com...
> >> Ms. Morrow,
> >>
> >>
> >> > > If any kind of force can penetrate the US, they will have control of
> >many of
> >> > > the things that the US threatens the world with, nukes, missiles,
> >aircraft
> >> > > etc
> >> >
> >> >     It is not possible to penetrate the USA due to its heavily armed
> >> > population.  It's too hostile for convential forces which is why I
> >> > suspect there is so push to disarm the American people.  We're a power
> >> > to reckon with irregardless of the Pentagon.
> >>
> >> but why would an enemy bother invading a country that's so close to total
> >social
> >> collapse.... anarchy.... without any effort on their part??
> >>
> >> .... that's assuming anyone would even want the place!!
> >
> >
> >I think that what he meant was that the U.S. population has many state
> >militias that are organized locally and would provide partisan defence. I
> do
> >not necessarily condone militias as such but it sure is comforting to know
> >that there is a crazy group of wing nuts in nothern michigan who would be
> >more than happy to defend against any invaders. :)
> >
> >it is true that the US and A have spend huge amount of money
> to make a defense force against any invader....
> however they have no defense whatsoever against
> internal conflict.
> USSR  was also such a power and they did have an eternal
> defense system but even that cracked under the People Power
> pressure and the mighty power crumpled in weeks..
> it will take less time then that for the USA to go the same way
> due to the extra infighting ..not only between the states but
> also between religions, races, cultures and anything at all
> dividing the People.  As you said they public are heavy armed
> and a revolution would be bloody. The USSR did NOT have that problem but
> still crumpled.  Many Places go through the same problem now, Indonesia,
> Malaysia, The Balkans, Middle east, Africa,and just about everywhere. The
> question in not if the US will crash..but when.
> Even Australia is on its way.  The Governments wanting more and more Power
> and give the same to their Police. By doing so they have created a
> Dictatorship where they are the bosses and the pupil are the servants. The
> Public will not tolerate that much longer and People Power will explode. The
> Election in Victoria just showed how unpredictable the People have become.
> The unexpected support for ONE NATION party was another. The Issue of
> Republic will soon show its real problems as the Politician WANT to control
> who shall be President and refuse to lissn to the People who want to chose
> him/her themselves,  and are not even given the choice in the forthcoming
> ballot
> I can see the People Power hitting the streets very soon.
> PEM.

The bikies may have already fired the opening shots.

Until the academics start getting guillotined, they must be in raptures.
All their cultivation of tiny minds finally coming to fruition.
Australia with its very own civil war, just like all those other
countries they are so determined we must imitate. All their years of
devotion finally paying off.

Justice will only be done if those responsible bleed the most.

Cheers


--
Neville Duguid            * "To see what is in front of one's nose *
nevilled@netspace.net.au   *   needs a constant struggle."        *
Spare me, spam me not       *             - George Orwell.       *

Just a quick question, really;  Was this post in response to
the question, "Are we really the "clever country?"  Ummmm?"

Neville Duguid wrote:
>
>
> The bikies may have already fired the opening shots.
>
> Until the academics start getting guillotined, they must be in raptures.
> All their cultivation of tiny minds finally coming to fruition.
> Australia with its very own civil war, just like all those other
> countries they are so determined we must imitate. All their years of
> devotion finally paying off.
>
> Justice will only be done if those responsible bleed the most.

--

__________________________________________________WWS_____________

Idiocy abhors a vacuum, but it also abhors a room full of
people it isn't currently in, and so crashes the party. - jdn

No, you're not.