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Le 02/03/2025 à 13:54, Anton Shepelev a écrit :
> Hello, all.
>
> One of the Moscow airports has recently put the following
> sign over the window where arriving passengers are to have
> their passports stamped with the date of the arrival:
>
>                   Date-stamping the passport
>
> I think this phrase in isolation does not a work as a sign
> and is patent Runglish.  Any of the alternatives below are
> better in my opinion:
>
>                 Passport stampage
>                 Passport stamping
>                 Passport date-stamping
>                 Stamping of the passport
>                 Date-stamping of the passport
>
> because a sign needs a more noun-like phrase.  Futhermore
> /date-stamping/ seems superfluous because /stamping/ alone,
> when applied to /passport/, conveys the necessry meaning.
> What do you think?

I think the usual phrase is 'passport control'. Passports are checked,
and stamped not only with the date, but also with the place of entry.

Anton Shepelev wrote:

> Hello, all.
>
> One of the Moscow airports has recently put the following
> sign over the window where arriving passengers are to have
> their passports stamped with the date of the arrival:
>
>                  Date-stamping the passport

And? It might be a bit clunky but it makes sense.

It does what it says on the tin!

> I think this phrase in isolation does not a work as a sign
> and is patent Runglish.  Any of the alternatives below are
> better in my opinion:
>
>                Passport stampage
>                Passport stamping
>                Passport date-stamping
>                Stamping of the passport
>                Date-stamping of the passport

Out of those alternatives I think I prefer the original.

On 02/03/2025 14:54, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Hello, all.
>
> One of the Moscow airports has recently put the following
> sign over the window where arriving passengers are to have
> their passports stamped with the date of the arrival:
>
>                  Date-stamping the passport
>
> I think this phrase in isolation does not a work as a sign
> and is patent Runglish.

I think it works, and is better than the five alternatives you suggest.
(The last one is almost ok, but a bit pedantic as a sign at an airport.)

> Any of the alternatives below are
> better in my opinion:
>
>                Passport stampage
>                Passport stamping
>                Passport date-stamping
>                Stamping of the passport
>                Date-stamping of the passport
>
> because a sign needs a more noun-like phrase.

Does it? Since when? (I have yet come across a linguist who refuses to
go the 'Date-stamping the passport' window for a lack of "a more
noun-like phrase"

> Futhermore
> /date-stamping/ seems superfluous because /stamping/ alone,
> when applied to /passport/, conveys the necessry meaning.
> What do you think?
>

Not all stamps have (or need) date information. The last entry visa I
had in my passport had the expiry date added by hand.

In article <20250302165447.0e9898baab84037dae3bc5cb@gmail.moc>,
Anton Shepelev  <anton.txt@gmail.moc> wrote:

>                 Date-stamping the passport
>
>I think this phrase in isolation does not a work as a sign
>and is patent Runglish.

It is certainly not what a native speaker would put on a sign.

>Any of the alternatives below are
>better in my opinion:
>
>               Passport stampage

If "stampage" is a word at all, it means something like "postage", not
the act of stamping a document.

>               Passport stamping
>               Passport date-stamping

These are reasonable.

>               Stamping of the passport
>               Date-stamping of the passport

The use of "the" is not idiomatic.  If you really wanted this form, it
would have to be "stamping of passports".

>Futhermore /date-stamping/ seems superfluous because /stamping/
>alone, when applied to /passport/, conveys the necessry meaning.

In fact date-stamping or over-specific.  The stamp conveys other
information.

Is there really a window where nothing happens apart from stamping?
Rather than also looking you up in the FSB database?

-- Richard

On 02/03/2025 14:30, occam wrote:
> On 02/03/2025 14:54, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> Hello, all.
>>
>> One of the Moscow airports has recently put the following
>> sign over the window where arriving passengers are to have
>> their passports stamped with the date of the arrival:
>>
>>                   Date-stamping the passport
>>
>> I think this phrase in isolation does not a work as a sign
>> and is patent Runglish.
>
> I think it works, and is better than the five alternatives you suggest.
> (The last one is almost ok, but a bit pedantic as a sign at an airport.)
>
>> Any of the alternatives below are
>> better in my opinion:
>>
>>                 Passport stampage
>>                 Passport stamping
>>                 Passport date-stamping
>>                 Stamping of the passport
>>                 Date-stamping of the passport
>>
>> because a sign needs a more noun-like phrase.
>
> Does it? Since when? (I have yet come across a linguist who refuses to
> go the 'Date-stamping the passport' window for a lack of "a more
> noun-like phrase"
>
>> Futhermore
>> /date-stamping/ seems superfluous because /stamping/ alone,
>> when applied to /passport/, conveys the necessry meaning.
>> What do you think?
>>
>
> Not all stamps have (or need) date information. The last entry visa I
> had in my passport had the expiry date added by hand.

Don't all passengers arriving on an International flight have to go
through Passport Control? (this may apply to internal flights within
Russia for ought I know).
I don't understand why the 'stamping of passports' needs to be
separately labelled.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 02/03/2025 15:53, Hibou wrote:
> Le 02/03/2025 à 13:54, Anton Shepelev a écrit :
>> Hello, all.
>>
>> One of the Moscow airports has recently put the following
>> sign over the window where arriving passengers are to have
>> their passports stamped with the date of the arrival:
>>
>>                   Date-stamping the passport
>>
>> I think this phrase in isolation does not a work as a sign
>> and is patent Runglish.  Any of the alternatives below are
>> better in my opinion:
>>
>>                 Passport stampage
>>                 Passport stamping
>>                 Passport date-stamping
>>                 Stamping of the passport
>>                 Date-stamping of the passport
>>
>> because a sign needs a more noun-like phrase.  Futhermore
>> /date-stamping/ seems superfluous because /stamping/ alone,
>> when applied to /passport/, conveys the necessry meaning.
>> What do you think?
>
> I think the usual phrase is 'passport control'.

Yes, in an anglophone environment, that is the most common expression.
'Control' makes sense in English (and in French). However the word may
have other overtones in Russian.

> Passports are checked,
> and stamped not only with the date, but also with the place of entry.
>

On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 11:47:13 +1100, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
wrote:

>On 03/03/25 00:54, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> Hello, all.
>>
>> One of the Moscow airports has recently put the following
>> sign over the window where arriving passengers are to have
>> their passports stamped with the date of the arrival:
>>
>>                   Date-stamping the passport
>>
>> I think this phrase in isolation does not a work as a sign
>> and is patent Runglish.  Any of the alternatives below are
>> better in my opinion:
>>
>>                 Passport stampage
>>                 Passport stamping
>>                 Passport date-stamping
>>                 Stamping of the passport
>>                 Date-stamping of the passport
>>
>> because a sign needs a more noun-like phrase.  Futhermore
>> /date-stamping/ seems superfluous because /stamping/ alone,
>> when applied to /passport/, conveys the necessry meaning.
>> What do you think?
>
>If I were making the sign I would just write "Passports".

Better still:

"Show your passport here"
or
"Get your passport stamped here".




--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

occam suggested that ...
> On 02/03/2025 14:54, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> Hello, all.
>>
>> One of the Moscow airports has recently put the following
>> sign over the window where arriving passengers are to have
>> their passports stamped with the date of the arrival:
>>
>>                  Date-stamping the passport
>>
>> I think this phrase in isolation does not a work as a sign
>> and is patent Runglish.
>
> I think it works, and is better than the five alternatives you suggest.
> (The last one is almost ok, but a bit pedantic as a sign at an airport.)

Too long for a sign, especially in a busy place you are trying to get
through quickly.

>> Any of the alternatives below are
>> better in my opinion:
>>
>>                Passport stampage

"Stampage" is not a common word.

>>                Passport stamping

Best of Anton's suggestions

>>                Passport date-stamping
>>                Stamping of the passport
>>                Date-stamping of the passport

And back to being too long.

>>
>> because a sign needs a more noun-like phrase.
>
> Does it? Since when? (I have yet come across a linguist who refuses to
> go the 'Date-stamping the passport' window for a lack of "a more
> noun-like phrase"

I will mull this over, but brevity is a hall mark of efficient signage.

After 25 years, I don't recall what the signage was on my trip to
Europe, and I didn't take any souvenir pictures at the ports of entry.
Sam's suggestion would work, but I'm not entirely comfortable with it.

"Passport Check-In" would work.

>> Futhermore
>> /date-stamping/ seems superfluous because /stamping/ alone,
>> when applied to /passport/, conveys the necessry meaning.
>> What do you think?
>>
>
> Not all stamps have (or need) date information. The last entry visa I
> had in my passport had the expiry date added by hand.

Procedures vary by country, and sometimes by the size of the port of
entry.

/dps

--
potstickers, Japanese gyoza, Chinese dumplings, let's do it

Steve Hayes presented the following explanation :
> On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 11:47:13 +1100, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On 03/03/25 00:54, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>>> Hello, all.
>>>
>>> One of the Moscow airports has recently put the following
>>> sign over the window where arriving passengers are to have
>>> their passports stamped with the date of the arrival:
>>>
>>>                   Date-stamping the passport
>>>
>>> I think this phrase in isolation does not a work as a sign
>>> and is patent Runglish.  Any of the alternatives below are
>>> better in my opinion:
>>>
>>>                 Passport stampage
>>>                 Passport stamping
>>>                 Passport date-stamping
>>>                 Stamping of the passport
>>>                 Date-stamping of the passport
>>>
>>> because a sign needs a more noun-like phrase.  Futhermore
>>> /date-stamping/ seems superfluous because /stamping/ alone,
>>> when applied to /passport/, conveys the necessry meaning.
>>> What do you think?
>>
>> If I were making the sign I would just write "Passports".
>
> Better still:
>
> "Show your passport here"
> or
> "Get your passport stamped here".

Too long.  That would work on a secondary sign, but when you're in a
crowded hall or room, you want a sign you can read quickly from a
distance.

/dps

--
There's nothing inherently wrong with Big Data. What matters, as it
does for Arnold Lund in California or Richard Rothman in Baltimore, are
the questions -- old and new, good and bad -- this newest tool lets us
ask.  (R. Lerhman, CSMonitor.com)

On 03/03/25 00:54, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Hello, all.
>
> One of the Moscow airports has recently put the following
> sign over the window where arriving passengers are to have
> their passports stamped with the date of the arrival:
>
>                   Date-stamping the passport
>
> I think this phrase in isolation does not a work as a sign
> and is patent Runglish.  Any of the alternatives below are
> better in my opinion:
>
>                 Passport stampage
>                 Passport stamping
>                 Passport date-stamping
>                 Stamping of the passport
>                 Date-stamping of the passport
>
> because a sign needs a more noun-like phrase.  Futhermore
> /date-stamping/ seems superfluous because /stamping/ alone,
> when applied to /passport/, conveys the necessry meaning.
> What do you think?

If I were making the sign I would just write "Passports".

--
Peter Moylan       peter@pmoylan.org    http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Richard Tobin to Anton Shepelev:

> > Passport stampage
>
> If "stampage" is a word at all, it means something like
> "postage", not the act of stamping a document.

It /is/ a word, according to OED:

   /Stampage/ is a noun derived from /stamp/, meaning the
   act of stamping or a stamp impression.

> > Stamping of the passport
> > Date-stamping of the passport
>
> The use of "the" is not idiomatic.  If you really wanted
> this form, it would have to be "stamping of passports".

This was my original idea, but a colleauge persuaded me that
the definite article was right, because of all the possible
"passports" a passenger may have, only one is
eligible -- the international passport, under which he or
she travels.  In Russia, it is separate from the internal
passport, Therefore, I understand the plural in, say
/Balancing of wheels/ or /Polishing of shoes/ (clusly as
they are).

> In fact date-stamping or over-specific.  The stamp conveys
> other information.

Right, but I was criticising the translation rather than the
message.

> Is there really a window where nothing happens apart from
> stamping?  Rather than also looking you up in the FSB
> database?

I don't know about that.  In the airports of Cannes,
however, they returned my passport so quickly that I doubt
any database check was performed, although it should have
been.  Perhaps it is as fast as putting the open passport on
a scanner for second or two.

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Snidely wrote:

> I will mull this over, but brevity is a hall mark of efficient signage.
>
> After 25 years, I don't recall what the signage was on my trip to
> Europe, and I didn't take any souvenir pictures at the ports of entry.
> Sam's suggestion would work, but I'm not entirely comfortable with it.
>
> "Passport Check-In" would work.

A Danish sign in Kastrup (CPH):

https://refugees.dk/media/2279/paskontrol-skilt-1.png?center=0.23053892215568864,0.49861495844875348&mode=crop&widthh5&height00&rnd3500827740000000

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

In article <20250303204820.4aee78ac3c97591482b9373f@gmail.moc>,
Anton Shepelev  <anton.txt@gmail.moc> wrote:

>> > Passport stampage

>> If "stampage" is a word at all, it means something like
>> "postage", not the act of stamping a document.

>It /is/ a word, according to OED:
>
>   /Stampage/ is a noun derived from /stamp/, meaning the
>   act of stamping or a stamp impression.

That's odd.  When I look it up, the OED gives three meanings:

 1. The crushing (of tin-ore).
 2. A copy or impression (of an inscription) made by stamping.
 3. The amount charged or paid for the stamp or stamps of a postal
    packet; postage.

None of them is the act of stamping in the sense we are discussing.


-- Richard

Richard Tobin to Anton Shepelev:

> > It /is/ a word, according to OED:
> >
> >   /Stampage/ is a noun derived from /stamp/, meaning the
> >   act of stamping or a stamp impression.
> >
>
> That's odd.  When I look it up, the OED gives three
> meanings:
>
>   1.  The crushing (of tin-ore).
>
>   2.  A copy or impression (of an inscription) made by
>       stamping.
>
>   3.  The amount charged or paid for the stamp or stamps
>       of a postal packet; postage.
>
> None of them is the act of stamping in the sense we are
> discussing.

OED content being behind a paywall, I quoted the piece the
search engine showed me.  I hope it was not generated by an
LLM, because such disservice is not like DuckDuckGo at all.

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Bertel Lund Hansen:

> A Danish sign in Kastrup (CPH):
> https://refugees.dk/media/2279/paskontrol-skilt-1.png

Thanks for the standard phrase in action.

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I wrote:

> It /is/ a word, according to OED:
>
>   /Stampage/ is a noun derived from /stamp/, meaning the act
>   of stamping or a stamp impression.

I think I misunderstood that sentence as explaining the
meaning of /stampage/ rather than of /stamp/.

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Richard Tobin:

> Is there really a window where nothing happens apart from
> stamping?  Rather than also looking you up in the FSB
> database?

An Lo! -- new tidings to behold:
That date-stamping is exactly what it says: a entirely
optional procudure after the automated passport-control in a
special unmanned booth my company has developed.  In some
situations, this stamp is needed for reports, to claim
business-trip payments, &c.

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On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 12:32:29 +0000, Anton Shepelev wrote:

> Richard Tobin:
>
>> Is there really a window where nothing happens apart from
>> stamping?  Rather than also looking you up in the FSB
>> database?
>
> An Lo! -- new tidings to behold:
> That date-stamping is exactly what it says: a entirely
> optional procudure after the automated passport-control in a
> special unmanned booth my company has developed.  In some
> situations, this stamp is needed for reports, to claim
> business-trip payments, &c.

If I were in charge of the signs, the one I'd put on
that booth would say "passport stamp" or "passport
stamping", and I'd consider adding "(optional)".

--
Jerry Friedman

--

Jerry Friedman to Anton Shepelev:

> > An Lo! -- new tidings to behold:
> > That date-stamping is exactly what it says: a entirely
> > optional procudure after the automated passport-control
> > in a special unmanned booth my company has developed.
> > In some situations, this stamp is needed for reports, to
> > claim business-trip payments, &c.
>
> If I were in charge of the signs, the one I'd put on that
> booth would say "passport stamp" or "passport stamping",
> and I'd consider adding "(optional)".

Thanks.
                PASSPORT STAMP (optional)
                Have arrival/departure date
                stampted into your passport

I wonder if the definite article modifying /date/ may be
omitted.

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On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 14:37:03 +0000, Anton Shepelev wrote:

> Jerry Friedman to Anton Shepelev:
>
>>> An Lo! -- new tidings to behold:
>>> That date-stamping is exactly what it says: a entirely
>>> optional procudure after the automated passport-control
>>> in a special unmanned booth my company has developed.
>>> In some situations, this stamp is needed for reports, to
>>> claim business-trip payments, &c.
>>
>> If I were in charge of the signs, the one I'd put on that
>> booth would say "passport stamp" or "passport stamping",
>> and I'd consider adding "(optional)".
>
> Thanks.
>                 PASSPORT STAMP (optional)
>                 Have arrival/departure date
>                 stampted into your passport

"Stamped onto" or "stamped on".  Otherwise good,
in my opinion.

> I wonder if the definite article modifying /date/ may be
> omitted.

Yes, on a sign.  If you wanted to include it,
"your" might be at least as good.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

Anton Shepelev:
> >                 PASSPORT STAMP (optional)
> >                 Have arrival/departure date
> >                 stampted into your passport

Jerry Friedman:
> "Stamped onto" or "stamped on".

To me, either of those forms suggests that the *cover* of the passport
will be stamped!  Since they'd actually stamp an inside page, "stamped
in" is best.

--
Mark Brader                  "He'll spend at least part of his life
Toronto                       in prison, or parliament, or both."
msb@vex.net                                          --Peter Moylan

My text in this article is in the public domain.