🚀 go-pugleaf

On 6/10/2025 5:57 PM, Alan K. wrote:
> On 6/10/25 5:58 PM, aRubes wrote:
>> I am seeing some nice Gravatar / libravatar user icons via extensions.
>> Wondered whether the old (but cool) way is something still doable, and
>> how do you achieve it
> For people like me that are oblivious to what you are talking about,
> could you explain in a few sentences?

just search X-face.  It's the dumbest thing ever for usenet IMO.


--
Darwinism Is Junk Science!!

On 6/10/25 5:58 PM, aRubes wrote:
> I am seeing some nice Gravatar / libravatar user icons via extensions. Wondered whether
> the old (but cool) way is something still doable, and how do you achieve it
For people like me that are oblivious to what you are talking about,  could you explain in
a few sentences?


--
Linux Mint 22.1,  Thunderbird 128.11.0esr,  Mozilla Firefox 139.0.1
     Alan K.

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 6/10/2025 6:57 PM, Alan K. wrote:
>> On 6/10/25 5:58 PM, aRubes wrote:
>>> I am seeing some nice Gravatar / libravatar user icons via extensions.
>>> Wondered whether the old (but cool) way is something still doable, and how do you achieve it
>>
>> For people like me that are oblivious to what you are talking about,  could you explain in a few sentences?
>>
>
> In this example, images of some sort (could be considered an Avatar,
> as the resolution is not sufficient for a lot of faces), they can
> be carried by custom header lines in the header of the message.
> I have put some blank lines around the relevant parts.
>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
> References:
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> Injection-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:51:06 -0000 (UTC)
> Injection-Info:
> User-Agent: Pan/0.154 (Izium; 517acf4)
> Cancel-Lock:
>
> X-Face: Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­c
>  hwyrn­
>   drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­g
>  och
>
> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwCAIAAADYYG7QAAACh0lEQVRYw71Z21bD
>  MAzzevbfkr4cHjrSXJyL044+MDa6WLEl2SkvkrZ1AbAvXO+bUGSCPYnsuIVGMpm
>  ZLnjX718GhAKNsp8lON2F9VrhELwIgJlBepkZjA78rVK+FkmNhEJK76UsJlz8+E
>  rJsjrpYouhLo/SC6qPHgakFOR8wV9+8rCfO/I/oVnmUZUp42/LW2XkLj9TCFNM9
>  jp5g2EmHZgpYZjCOkYU7sXVogRylJqpdggoFLG1g09Flah/7kErCxzR9HgXPYsq
>  0glb9cxjIz2Vsk9AmAoCSxECpD713joMKjQqLAtmMqJmXjdVvlMnMQCVITotJd1
>  z+fh1f1NNo+vuc1KnhWUmY7t03vydTud9BbXCtN3L2PL3bK7JCNG0GHzuZxafyB
>  fxevCxpm1vrwZltqw6SILCcdoCE6PGQC8wZWDA9Or7Qp5s3lAZezys0nDazs9S9
>  R0TjwEiksRxLkNPC1NMMWPs1bj0Ei0Yuo+JVtFLuzP1NRJ16qXWN8DhhtmS4PDg
>  O6mqRxs4bEJrYt087mSIow/1VzW2oFlMQuiuIy/KsUagvhdw6hSjJGlIavbLF8x
>  j3X47bccLcUSi0dkWh1nUZNhANT1tHKUXrNxNLbd9KPb9wDDVrKwmPQMOPQ1oy6
>  k5I1DwzDeRJd3jVIhDAUxq3ngzJG4CCkNXZxZVMcjefoK2J0gUY2S3rxz/RuTFx
>  2zHd9U+obimJXMG4edsk/2j5pTU5G1MmzbRLxkfq5EiT1GGsidvMGzi+1goGb2l
>  GCrN+nGnV8xj3q3JLRDVPL96vUc7Z4aJ3TN1mVqWAMJMfG+Jxh6TQqP+92iZkCU
>  xtglds1AB6r0aiSHKcnFck+p/c/0CbacFLQcajGcAAAAASUVORK5CYII>
> Xref: ...
>
> There are two representations there. Your newsreader might need
> an add-on or extension, to allow those to be viewed.

While I see the x-faces in a header section of the message view pane in
my NNTP client (40tude Dialog, abandoned 20 years ago), I wish there
were an easy way to filter out or hide that cutsey glitz from messages.
I can test on the presense of those headers, and that they have
non-blank values, but I really just want to hide the garbage rather than
filter out messages from posters that choose glitz over substance.

On Tue, 6/10/2025 6:57 PM, Alan K. wrote:
> On 6/10/25 5:58 PM, aRubes wrote:
>> I am seeing some nice Gravatar / libravatar user icons via extensions.
>> Wondered whether the old (but cool) way is something still doable, and how do you achieve it
>
> For people like me that are oblivious to what you are talking about,  could you explain in a few sentences?
>
>

In this example, images of some sort (could be considered an Avatar,
as the resolution is not sufficient for a lot of faces), they can
be carried by custom header lines in the header of the message.
I have put some blank lines around the relevant parts.

Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
References:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:51:06 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info:
User-Agent: Pan/0.154 (Izium; 517acf4)
Cancel-Lock:

X-Face: Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­chwyrn­ drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­goch

Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwCAIAAADYYG7QAAACh0lEQVRYw71Z21bD
 MAzzevbfkr4cHjrSXJyL044+MDa6WLEl2SkvkrZ1AbAvXO+bUGSCPYnsuIVGMpm
 ZLnjX718GhAKNsp8lON2F9VrhELwIgJlBepkZjA78rVK+FkmNhEJK76UsJlz8+E
 rJsjrpYouhLo/SC6qPHgakFOR8wV9+8rCfO/I/oVnmUZUp42/LW2XkLj9TCFNM9
 jp5g2EmHZgpYZjCOkYU7sXVogRylJqpdggoFLG1g09Flah/7kErCxzR9HgXPYsq
 0glb9cxjIz2Vsk9AmAoCSxECpD713joMKjQqLAtmMqJmXjdVvlMnMQCVITotJd1
 z+fh1f1NNo+vuc1KnhWUmY7t03vydTud9BbXCtN3L2PL3bK7JCNG0GHzuZxafyB
 fxevCxpm1vrwZltqw6SILCcdoCE6PGQC8wZWDA9Or7Qp5s3lAZezys0nDazs9S9
 R0TjwEiksRxLkNPC1NMMWPs1bj0Ei0Yuo+JVtFLuzP1NRJ16qXWN8DhhtmS4PDg
 O6mqRxs4bEJrYt087mSIow/1VzW2oFlMQuiuIy/KsUagvhdw6hSjJGlIavbLF8x
 j3X47bccLcUSi0dkWh1nUZNhANT1tHKUXrNxNLbd9KPb9wDDVrKwmPQMOPQ1oy6
 k5I1DwzDeRJd3jVIhDAUxq3ngzJG4CCkNXZxZVMcjefoK2J0gUY2S3rxz/RuTFx
 2zHd9U+obimJXMG4edsk/2j5pTU5G1MmzbRLxkfq5EiT1GGsidvMGzi+1goGb2l
 GCrN+nGnV8xj3q3JLRDVPL96vUc7Z4aJ3TN1mVqWAMJMfG+Jxh6TQqP+92iZkCU
 xtglds1AB6r0aiSHKcnFck+p/c/0CbacFLQcajGcAAAAASUVORK5CYII
Xref: ...

There are two representations there. Your newsreader might need
an add-on or extension, to allow those to be viewed.

   Paul

On Tue, 6/10/2025 7:31 PM, sticks wrote:
> On 6/10/2025 5:57 PM, Alan K. wrote:
>> On 6/10/25 5:58 PM, aRubes wrote:
>>> I am seeing some nice Gravatar / libravatar user icons via extensions. Wondered whether the old (but cool) way is something still doable, and how do you achieve it
>> For people like me that are oblivious to what you are talking about,  could you explain in a few sentences?
>
> just search X-face.  It's the dumbest thing ever for usenet IMO.
>
>

The rocky road to hell is paved with good intention.

   https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id 417

Item was filed 26 years ago.

   Paul

Alan K. wrote:
> On 6/10/25 5:58 PM, aRubes wrote:
>> I am seeing some nice Gravatar / libravatar user icons via extensions. Wondered whether
>> the old (but cool) way is something still doable, and how do you achieve it
> For people like me that are oblivious to what you are talking about,  could you explain in
> a few sentences?

It's an outdated way of showing small black&white pictures in the
header section of a posting. That pictures were encoded in the header,
only some dozen pixels in size. Only usenet nerds tended to use them as
a kind of personal avatar.
I never got used to this childish kind of nonsense and filtered the
display of x-face out.

aRubes wrote:
> I am seeing some nice Gravatar / libravatar user icons via extensions.
> Wondered whether the old (but cool) way is something still doable, and
> how do you achieve it

Nope, just forget it. That was just a superfluous nonsense, which won't
come back.

VanguardLH wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 6/10/2025 6:57 PM, Alan K. wrote:
>>> On 6/10/25 5:58 PM, aRubes wrote:
>>>> I am seeing some nice Gravatar / libravatar user icons via extensions.
>>>> Wondered whether the old (but cool) way is something still doable, and how do you achieve it
>>>
>>> For people like me that are oblivious to what you are talking about,  could you explain in a few sentences?
>>>
>>
>> In this example, images of some sort (could be considered an Avatar,
>> as the resolution is not sufficient for a lot of faces), they can
>> be carried by custom header lines in the header of the message.
>> I have put some blank lines around the relevant parts.
>>
>> Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
>> References:
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>> Injection-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:51:06 -0000 (UTC)
>> Injection-Info:
>> User-Agent: Pan/0.154 (Izium; 517acf4)
>> Cancel-Lock:
>>
>> X-Face: Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­c
>>  hwyrn­
>>   drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­g
>>  och
>>
>> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwCAIAAADYYG7QAAACh0lEQVRYw71Z21bD
>>  MAzzevbfkr4cHjrSXJyL044+MDa6WLEl2SkvkrZ1AbAvXO+bUGSCPYnsuIVGMpm
>>  ZLnjX718GhAKNsp8lON2F9VrhELwIgJlBepkZjA78rVK+FkmNhEJK76UsJlz8+E
>>  rJsjrpYouhLo/SC6qPHgakFOR8wV9+8rCfO/I/oVnmUZUp42/LW2XkLj9TCFNM9
>>  jp5g2EmHZgpYZjCOkYU7sXVogRylJqpdggoFLG1g09Flah/7kErCxzR9HgXPYsq
>>  0glb9cxjIz2Vsk9AmAoCSxECpD713joMKjQqLAtmMqJmXjdVvlMnMQCVITotJd1
>>  z+fh1f1NNo+vuc1KnhWUmY7t03vydTud9BbXCtN3L2PL3bK7JCNG0GHzuZxafyB
>>  fxevCxpm1vrwZltqw6SILCcdoCE6PGQC8wZWDA9Or7Qp5s3lAZezys0nDazs9S9
>>  R0TjwEiksRxLkNPC1NMMWPs1bj0Ei0Yuo+JVtFLuzP1NRJ16qXWN8DhhtmS4PDg
>>  O6mqRxs4bEJrYt087mSIow/1VzW2oFlMQuiuIy/KsUagvhdw6hSjJGlIavbLF8x
>>  j3X47bccLcUSi0dkWh1nUZNhANT1tHKUXrNxNLbd9KPb9wDDVrKwmPQMOPQ1oy6
>>  k5I1DwzDeRJd3jVIhDAUxq3ngzJG4CCkNXZxZVMcjefoK2J0gUY2S3rxz/RuTFx
>>  2zHd9U+obimJXMG4edsk/2j5pTU5G1MmzbRLxkfq5EiT1GGsidvMGzi+1goGb2l
>>  GCrN+nGnV8xj3q3JLRDVPL96vUc7Z4aJ3TN1mVqWAMJMfG+Jxh6TQqP+92iZkCU
>>  xtglds1AB6r0aiSHKcnFck+p/c/0CbacFLQcajGcAAAAASUVORK5CYII>>
>> Xref: ...
>>
>> There are two representations there. Your newsreader might need
>> an add-on or extension, to allow those to be viewed.
>
> While I see the x-faces in a header section of the message view pane in
> my NNTP client (40tude Dialog, abandoned 20 years ago), I wish there
> were an easy way to filter out or hide that cutsey glitz from messages.
> I can test on the presense of those headers, and that they have
> non-blank values, but I really just want to hide the garbage rather than
> filter out messages from posters that choose glitz over substance.

For older versions of TB there was an AddOn named "mnenhy" with
witch you could suppress the "X-Face:" header via config:
user_pref("extensions.mnenhy.headers.noxface", true);

That's just one of the reasons i still use TB 38.
But if you use "40tude Dialog, abandoned 20 years ago" - good luck!

Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:

> On 11/6/25 1:17 am, VanguardLH wrote:
>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 6/10/2025 6:57 PM, Alan K. wrote:
>>>> On 6/10/25 5:58 PM, aRubes wrote:
>>>>> I am seeing some nice Gravatar / libravatar user icons via extensions.
>>>>> Wondered whether the old (but cool) way is something still doable, and how do you achieve it
>>>>
>>>> For people like me that are oblivious to what you are talking about,  could you explain in a few sentences?
>>>>
>>>
>>> In this example, images of some sort (could be considered an Avatar,
>>> as the resolution is not sufficient for a lot of faces), they can
>>> be carried by custom header lines in the header of the message.
>>> I have put some blank lines around the relevant parts.
>>>
>>> Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
>>> References:
>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>> Injection-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:51:06 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Injection-Info:
>>> User-Agent: Pan/0.154 (Izium; 517acf4)
>>> Cancel-Lock:
>>>
>>> X-Face: Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­c
>>>  hwyrn­
>>>   drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­g
>>>  och
>>>
>>> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwCAIAAADYYG7QAAACh0lEQVRYw71Z21bD
>>>  MAzzevbfkr4cHjrSXJyL044+MDa6WLEl2SkvkrZ1AbAvXO+bUGSCPYnsuIVGMpm
>>>  ZLnjX718GhAKNsp8lON2F9VrhELwIgJlBepkZjA78rVK+FkmNhEJK76UsJlz8+E
>>>  rJsjrpYouhLo/SC6qPHgakFOR8wV9+8rCfO/I/oVnmUZUp42/LW2XkLj9TCFNM9
>>>  jp5g2EmHZgpYZjCOkYU7sXVogRylJqpdggoFLG1g09Flah/7kErCxzR9HgXPYsq
>>>  0glb9cxjIz2Vsk9AmAoCSxECpD713joMKjQqLAtmMqJmXjdVvlMnMQCVITotJd1
>>>  z+fh1f1NNo+vuc1KnhWUmY7t03vydTud9BbXCtN3L2PL3bK7JCNG0GHzuZxafyB
>>>  fxevCxpm1vrwZltqw6SILCcdoCE6PGQC8wZWDA9Or7Qp5s3lAZezys0nDazs9S9
>>>  R0TjwEiksRxLkNPC1NMMWPs1bj0Ei0Yuo+JVtFLuzP1NRJ16qXWN8DhhtmS4PDg
>>>  O6mqRxs4bEJrYt087mSIow/1VzW2oFlMQuiuIy/KsUagvhdw6hSjJGlIavbLF8x
>>>  j3X47bccLcUSi0dkWh1nUZNhANT1tHKUXrNxNLbd9KPb9wDDVrKwmPQMOPQ1oy6
>>>  k5I1DwzDeRJd3jVIhDAUxq3ngzJG4CCkNXZxZVMcjefoK2J0gUY2S3rxz/RuTFx
>>>  2zHd9U+obimJXMG4edsk/2j5pTU5G1MmzbRLxkfq5EiT1GGsidvMGzi+1goGb2l
>>>  GCrN+nGnV8xj3q3JLRDVPL96vUc7Z4aJ3TN1mVqWAMJMfG+Jxh6TQqP+92iZkCU
>>>  xtglds1AB6r0aiSHKcnFck+p/c/0CbacFLQcajGcAAAAASUVORK5CYII>>>
>>> Xref: ...
>>>
>>> There are two representations there. Your newsreader might need
>>> an add-on or extension, to allow those to be viewed.
>>
>> While I see the x-faces in a header section of the message view pane in
>> my NNTP client (40tude Dialog, abandoned 20 years ago), I wish there
>> were an easy way to filter out or hide that cutsey glitz from messages.
>> I can test on the presense of those headers, and that they have
>> non-blank values, but I really just want to hide the garbage rather than
>> filter out messages from posters that choose glitz over substance.
>
> Just click the little plus sign in the top left corner of the 40tude
> Dialog header and all but the writer's name and email is hidden (and you
> get two more lines of visible text.) Simples! Tchk!

The "+" icon at the left end of the column row in the header list pane,
when clicked turns into a "-" icon, but that just changes whether the
row for filtering and sorting is displayed, or not.

The "+" icon at the left end of the column row in the message preview
pane will hide the other row of headers, so just the Subject, poster,
and date row are shown.  Clicking it adds viewing other headers, and I
do want some of those displayed, like Message-ID and Newsgroups.  While
I know in which newsgroup I am reading an article, too often someone
cross-posts to multiple newsgroups, and I want to see that.  If you
right-click on a header row, and select Edit Visible Headers, you can
choose which headers to see.  You can add pseudo headers that can shows
as bolded and colorize to warn you about a poster's behavior, like using
the inane "X-No-Archive: Yes" and X-Yes-Archive: No" headers, or someone
attempting to redirect offline a Usenet discussion via e-mail (which a
troll might use to have to you try to reply via e-mail to a bogus e-mail
address, especially when using a combo e-mail/newsreader client) by
using the Mail-Copies-To header.  And then there's the assholes that
post in multiple newsgroup, but tries to yank away the discussion on
replies to their "home" newsgroup by using the X-FollowUp-To header.  I
forget why I wanted to see the Message-ID header.  Yes, I can view the
headers in the raw view mode, but I like a few of them shown as I'm
reading a message, and I like where I can alert myself when someone
tries to use the rude or inane headers.

The X-Face is shown if I have the header section expanded in the message
preview pane, and so are the other headers and alerts I do want to see.

There is a possibility of modifying a message when it gets loaded, and
before saving into Dialog's message store, by using event scripts.  In
the OnBeforeSavingMessage script, I already have it strip out the
worthless and ego-stroking PGP signatures.  Maybe I could add to it some
more code to strip away the X-Face and Face headers, too.  When trialing
several newsreaders many times, I had panned Dialog as not behaving just
how I wanted, and which other newsreaders had, until I decided on seeing
what I could change with its event, message, and custom scripts.  Then
it became a lot more powerful; however, that was back when there was a
library of scripts to reuse or repurpose which is long gone.  The
problem with scripting in Dialog is there is no way to know what
variables are within scope of a variable (into the script), and I'm not
interested in learning Object Pascal to figure out what functions can be
called within a script.  But I might play a bit with the
OnBeforeSavingMessage event script since I already have it stripping out
some content from some messages.

On 11/6/25 1:17 am, VanguardLH wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 6/10/2025 6:57 PM, Alan K. wrote:
>>> On 6/10/25 5:58 PM, aRubes wrote:
>>>> I am seeing some nice Gravatar / libravatar user icons via extensions.
>>>> Wondered whether the old (but cool) way is something still doable, and how do you achieve it
>>>
>>> For people like me that are oblivious to what you are talking about,  could you explain in a few sentences?
>>>
>>
>> In this example, images of some sort (could be considered an Avatar,
>> as the resolution is not sufficient for a lot of faces), they can
>> be carried by custom header lines in the header of the message.
>> I have put some blank lines around the relevant parts.
>>
>> Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
>> References:
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>> Injection-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:51:06 -0000 (UTC)
>> Injection-Info:
>> User-Agent: Pan/0.154 (Izium; 517acf4)
>> Cancel-Lock:
>>
>> X-Face: Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­c
>>  hwyrn­
>>   drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­g
>>  och
>>
>> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwCAIAAADYYG7QAAACh0lEQVRYw71Z21bD
>>  MAzzevbfkr4cHjrSXJyL044+MDa6WLEl2SkvkrZ1AbAvXO+bUGSCPYnsuIVGMpm
>>  ZLnjX718GhAKNsp8lON2F9VrhELwIgJlBepkZjA78rVK+FkmNhEJK76UsJlz8+E
>>  rJsjrpYouhLo/SC6qPHgakFOR8wV9+8rCfO/I/oVnmUZUp42/LW2XkLj9TCFNM9
>>  jp5g2EmHZgpYZjCOkYU7sXVogRylJqpdggoFLG1g09Flah/7kErCxzR9HgXPYsq
>>  0glb9cxjIz2Vsk9AmAoCSxECpD713joMKjQqLAtmMqJmXjdVvlMnMQCVITotJd1
>>  z+fh1f1NNo+vuc1KnhWUmY7t03vydTud9BbXCtN3L2PL3bK7JCNG0GHzuZxafyB
>>  fxevCxpm1vrwZltqw6SILCcdoCE6PGQC8wZWDA9Or7Qp5s3lAZezys0nDazs9S9
>>  R0TjwEiksRxLkNPC1NMMWPs1bj0Ei0Yuo+JVtFLuzP1NRJ16qXWN8DhhtmS4PDg
>>  O6mqRxs4bEJrYt087mSIow/1VzW2oFlMQuiuIy/KsUagvhdw6hSjJGlIavbLF8x
>>  j3X47bccLcUSi0dkWh1nUZNhANT1tHKUXrNxNLbd9KPb9wDDVrKwmPQMOPQ1oy6
>>  k5I1DwzDeRJd3jVIhDAUxq3ngzJG4CCkNXZxZVMcjefoK2J0gUY2S3rxz/RuTFx
>>  2zHd9U+obimJXMG4edsk/2j5pTU5G1MmzbRLxkfq5EiT1GGsidvMGzi+1goGb2l
>>  GCrN+nGnV8xj3q3JLRDVPL96vUc7Z4aJ3TN1mVqWAMJMfG+Jxh6TQqP+92iZkCU
>>  xtglds1AB6r0aiSHKcnFck+p/c/0CbacFLQcajGcAAAAASUVORK5CYII>>
>> Xref: ...
>>
>> There are two representations there. Your newsreader might need
>> an add-on or extension, to allow those to be viewed.
>
> While I see the x-faces in a header section of the message view pane in
> my NNTP client (40tude Dialog, abandoned 20 years ago), I wish there
> were an easy way to filter out or hide that cutsey glitz from messages.
> I can test on the presense of those headers, and that they have
> non-blank values, but I really just want to hide the garbage rather than
> filter out messages from posters that choose glitz over substance.

Just click the little plus sign in the top left corner of the 40tude
Dialog header and all but the writer's name and email is hidden (and you
get two more lines of visible text.) Simples! Tchk!


--
Tetbury, Gloucestershirel, UK

Experience is something one learns just after one needed it most.

On 11/6/25 2:44 am, Frank Miller wrote:
> VanguardLH wrote:
>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 6/10/2025 6:57 PM, Alan K. wrote:
>>>> On 6/10/25 5:58 PM, aRubes wrote:
>>>>> I am seeing some nice Gravatar / libravatar user icons via extensions.
>>>>> Wondered whether the old (but cool) way is something still doable, and how do you achieve it
>>>>
>>>> For people like me that are oblivious to what you are talking about,  could you explain in a few sentences?
>>>>
>>>
>>> In this example, images of some sort (could be considered an Avatar,
>>> as the resolution is not sufficient for a lot of faces), they can
>>> be carried by custom header lines in the header of the message.
>>> I have put some blank lines around the relevant parts.
>>>
>>> Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
>>> References:
>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>> Injection-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 13:51:06 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Injection-Info:
>>> User-Agent: Pan/0.154 (Izium; 517acf4)
>>> Cancel-Lock:
>>>
>>> X-Face: Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­c
>>>  hwyrn­
>>>   drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­g
>>>  och
>>>
>>> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwCAIAAADYYG7QAAACh0lEQVRYw71Z21bD
>>>  MAzzevbfkr4cHjrSXJyL044+MDa6WLEl2SkvkrZ1AbAvXO+bUGSCPYnsuIVGMpm
>>>  ZLnjX718GhAKNsp8lON2F9VrhELwIgJlBepkZjA78rVK+FkmNhEJK76UsJlz8+E
>>>  rJsjrpYouhLo/SC6qPHgakFOR8wV9+8rCfO/I/oVnmUZUp42/LW2XkLj9TCFNM9
>>>  jp5g2EmHZgpYZjCOkYU7sXVogRylJqpdggoFLG1g09Flah/7kErCxzR9HgXPYsq
>>>  0glb9cxjIz2Vsk9AmAoCSxECpD713joMKjQqLAtmMqJmXjdVvlMnMQCVITotJd1
>>>  z+fh1f1NNo+vuc1KnhWUmY7t03vydTud9BbXCtN3L2PL3bK7JCNG0GHzuZxafyB
>>>  fxevCxpm1vrwZltqw6SILCcdoCE6PGQC8wZWDA9Or7Qp5s3lAZezys0nDazs9S9
>>>  R0TjwEiksRxLkNPC1NMMWPs1bj0Ei0Yuo+JVtFLuzP1NRJ16qXWN8DhhtmS4PDg
>>>  O6mqRxs4bEJrYt087mSIow/1VzW2oFlMQuiuIy/KsUagvhdw6hSjJGlIavbLF8x
>>>  j3X47bccLcUSi0dkWh1nUZNhANT1tHKUXrNxNLbd9KPb9wDDVrKwmPQMOPQ1oy6
>>>  k5I1DwzDeRJd3jVIhDAUxq3ngzJG4CCkNXZxZVMcjefoK2J0gUY2S3rxz/RuTFx
>>>  2zHd9U+obimJXMG4edsk/2j5pTU5G1MmzbRLxkfq5EiT1GGsidvMGzi+1goGb2l
>>>  GCrN+nGnV8xj3q3JLRDVPL96vUc7Z4aJ3TN1mVqWAMJMfG+Jxh6TQqP+92iZkCU
>>>  xtglds1AB6r0aiSHKcnFck+p/c/0CbacFLQcajGcAAAAASUVORK5CYII>>>
>>> Xref: ...
>>>
>>> There are two representations there. Your newsreader might need
>>> an add-on or extension, to allow those to be viewed.
>>
>> While I see the x-faces in a header section of the message view pane in
>> my NNTP client (40tude Dialog, abandoned 20 years ago), I wish there
>> were an easy way to filter out or hide that cutsey glitz from messages.
>> I can test on the presense of those headers, and that they have
>> non-blank values, but I really just want to hide the garbage rather than
>> filter out messages from posters that choose glitz over substance.
>
> For older versions of TB there was an AddOn named "mnenhy" with
> witch you could suppress the "X-Face:" header via config:
> user_pref("extensions.mnenhy.headers.noxface", true);
>
> That's just one of the reasons i still use TB 38.
> But if you use "40tude Dialog, abandoned 20 years ago" - good luck!

See my reply to Vanguard - luck not required. 40tude Dialog is much
better for using   newsgroups than Thunderbird and I still use it
occasionally. I'd use it all the time, but it means having two programs
running. As Thunderbird had much of its usefulness removed by the
succession of extension wrecking, unnecessary changes I only use it for
its versatility in being able to use email, RSS feeds and newsgroups in
one package.

--
Tetbury, Gloucestershirel, UK

Experience is something one learns just after one needed it most.

On 10 Jun 2025, aRubes <aRubes@pm.me> wrote in
alt.comp.software.thunderbird:

> I am seeing some nice Gravatar / libravatar user icons via
> extensions. Wondered whether the old (but cool) way is something
> still doable, and how do you achieve it

If your news agent can add custom headers, you can add an X-face image.
But I don't think Thunderbird or many other readers will display it. My
old buddy, Xnews can see them, although I remember I had to tweak it a
little to do so.

I've got an X-face that I set up, like, 20 years ago, but almost nobody
can see it. I had even forgotten it was there, until someone mentioned
it recently!

On 6/11/2025 8:30 AM, s|b wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 18:31:35 -0500, sticks wrote:
>
>> just search X-face.  It's the dumbest thing ever for usenet IMO.
>
> What about Face header then?

What about it?

--
Darwinism Is Junk Science!!

On Wed, 6/11/2025 1:35 PM, sticks wrote:
> On 6/11/2025 8:30 AM, s|b wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 18:31:35 -0500, sticks wrote:
>>
>>> just search X-face.  It's the dumbest thing ever for usenet IMO.
>>
>> What about Face header then?
>
> What about it?
>

What I got here, is one was color and one was B&W.

X-Face: Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­chwyrn­ drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­goch

uncompface -X xface.txt xface.xbm        # Done in Linux. [File format is a C declaration.]
                                         # X BitMap, B&W

#define noname_width 48
#define noname_height 48
static char noname_bits[] = {
 0x0A,0x10,0x00,0x04,0x00,0x04,0xFD,0x5B,0x00,0x00,0xC0,0x00,0xFE,0x2B,0x00,
 0x04,0xE0,0x01,0xFE,0x7B,0x00,0x04,0xF8,0x09,0x1E,0x3C,0x00,0x01,0xB8,0x21,
 0xFE,0x6F,0x00,0x44,0xF8,0x09,0xFE,0x39,0x00,0x81,0x88,0x91,0xFE,0x10,0x00,
 0x6C,0xC0,0x09,0xFE,0x9A,0xF8,0x32,0x4A,0x01,0xFE,0x44,0x10,0x8B,0xCA,0x01,
 0xFE,0x02,0xD2,0xC6,0x4A,0x01,0xFE,0x00,0x15,0x5F,0xED,0x01,0xFE,0x81,0xC0,
 0x5E,0xF5,0x01,0xFE,0x55,0x15,0x5B,0xFD,0x01,0xFE,0xD3,0xC8,0x0D,0xF4,0x01,
 0xFE,0x2A,0xA2,0xC6,0xFB,0x01,0xFE,0x1D,0xC8,0x03,0xAC,0x01,0xFE,0x00,0xE0,
 0x43,0xD7,0x01,0xFE,0x02,0x60,0x03,0xED,0x01,0xFE,0x00,0x60,0x03,0xFE,0x01,
 0xFE,0x00,0xF0,0x03,0xFF,0x01,0xFE,0x00,0x90,0x03,0xF9,0x01,0xFE,0x00,0xE0,
 0x03,0xFF,0x01,0xFE,0x00,0x90,0x03,0xF8,0x01,0x02,0x00,0x29,0xCB,0xEF,0x01,
 0x2C,0x00,0x90,0x03,0xD8,0x0B,0x56,0x00,0x58,0x05,0xE0,0x4D,0x2C,0x00,0x8D,
 0x1F,0xF0,0x1F,0x16,0x00,0xC0,0x0E,0xEF,0x4F,0x94,0x00,0x80,0xF8,0xF0,0xBF,
 0x7E,0x00,0xE0,0xFE,0x03,0xC0,0x94,0x00,0x00,0xFF,0x0F,0x40,0x5F,0x00,0x00,
 0x00,0x1D,0x40,0x3D,0x20,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x17,0xA0,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,
 0xD4,0x3F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xFE,0x6A,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x54,0x41,0x00,
 0x00,0x00,0x00,0xD4,0x6B,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xEB,0x3F,0x00,0x00,0x04,0x00,
 0xF5,0x3F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x7A,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x20,0x00,0xBC,0x3F,0x00,
 0x00,0x00,0x00,0xAE,0x6A,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xFE,0x69,0x00,0x00,0xFC,0x7F,
 0xBF,0xFA,0x00,0x00,0x54,0xD5,0xFE,0xE0,0x00,0x00,0xFD,0x05,0x7E,0x31,0x00,
 0x00,0x15,0x42};

The face one is base64 (http://base64.sourceforge.net)  and contains a PNG.

 ...
 xtglds1AB6r0aiSHKcnFck+p/c/0CbacFLQcajGcAAAAASUVORK5CYII
 b64.exe -d face.txt face.png         # I only figured out later it was PNG
                                      # and then put the right extension on the command

Things like this are so archaic at times, it's hard to find a photo app
to load them. The color one in this case, looks like it might be
more authentic if the colors are inverted. I just happened to pick lousy
looking samples :-) This does not appear to be a topic crying for a fix,
because the artwork "mostly sucks" :-)

And Copilot was helpful, by pointing out "you could decode these yourself
you know". I would pay $200 a month, to be encouraged in this way.

Some day the AI is going to answer "but you're too dumb to figure this out".

    Paul

On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 18:31:35 -0500, sticks wrote:

> just search X-face.  It's the dumbest thing ever for usenet IMO.

What about Face header then?

--
s|b

On 6/11/2025 2:32 PM, s|b wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jun 2025 12:35:15 -0500, sticks wrote:
>
>>>> just search X-face.  It's the dumbest thing ever for usenet IMO.
>
>>> What about Face header then?
>
>> What about it?
>
> If the X-Face header is the dumbest thing for Usenet, then what is the
> Face header? (X-Face != Face)

equally stupid.

--
Darwinism Is Junk Science!!

On 6/11/2025 2:16 PM, Paul wrote:
> On Wed, 6/11/2025 1:35 PM, sticks wrote:
>> On 6/11/2025 8:30 AM, s|b wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 18:31:35 -0500, sticks wrote:
>>>
>>>> just search X-face.  It's the dumbest thing ever for usenet IMO.
>>>
>>> What about Face header then?
>>
>> What about it?

---snip--
> Things like this are so archaic at times, it's hard to find a photo app
> to load them. The color one in this case, looks like it might be
> more authentic if the colors are inverted. I just happened to pick lousy
> looking samples :-) This does not appear to be a topic crying for a fix,
> because the artwork "mostly sucks" :-)
>
> And Copilot was helpful, by pointing out "you could decode these yourself
> you know". I would pay $200 a month, to be encouraged in this way.
>
> Some day the AI is going to answer "but you're too dumb to figure this out".

In your case I think it would say something like, "You're too smart to
bother with stupid shit like this."

--
Darwinism Is Junk Science!!

On Wed, 6/11/2025 4:49 PM, Frank Miller wrote:
> Paul wrote:

>> And Copilot was helpful, by pointing out "you could decode these yourself
>> you know". I would pay $200 a month, to be encouraged in this way.
>>
>> Some day the AI is going to answer "but you're too dumb to figure this out".
>
> If you're using "Copilot" for stuff like this, maybe the AI would be right. ^^
>

Some of the CoPilot questions I ask, are asked to determine
how the machine works.

There is a strategy planner. And there are "Group of Experts" models.

The results of the query indicate, you cannot couple
the general query module, with the Studio module that creates pictures.

You can ask a question such as:

   "Draw a picture of two people on a park bench"

The strategy planner notes this is a "pure art" question,
and loads Studio Lite. It draws the picture. You can copy the picture
or whatever.

You could ask a question such as:

   "How many people fit on a park bench ?"

That would be a general query kind of question. Since it is borderline
maths, it might not end well for you.

But seemingly, you can't mix modes and ask the Copilot to

   "Draw all possible configurations of humans sitting on park benches"

just in case that question requires the general query module first.
The Studio module only seems to run on its own, not in combination
with something else.

This is one of the reasons the current AI are so doomed.

I've even managed to hang the AI, and it took ten or fifteen minutes
for a human to come by and terminate the session. So I could ask
another question, such as "what happened to my question". To which
the AI replied "what question?" :-) The question I asked, was about
a computer language for which I suspected training data was lacking.

To make a deterministic thing from a non-deterministic thing...
takes a lot of questions. The people here and elsewhere,
specialize in tricky questions that find the holes. And
then you don't ask silly questions in the future.

*******

My very first question, illustrates the indeterminism issue.

I was sitting there, wondering "what should my first question be".

And I said to myself "make sure the question is bounded, stupid,
so your question does not run and hit the timeout timer".

And even after thinking about that, I decided to type in

   "What are your capabilities?"

Somehow, I (wrongly) figured the machine would have a
"laundry list" of things it supported.

   I do general queries.
   I draw pictures.
   I don't do math.

that's what I'd hoped for.

Well, the machine went nuts :-) My screen was covered
in text and hallucinations. When the 15 second timer was
hit, the screen was promptly cleared, as if the question
never existed.

See ? Lesson learned :-) :-)

You can't ask it what its capabilities are.

Doesn't that make sense ?
Would you pay $200 a month for that ?
Would you spend $500 billion to keep building an altar to that ?

   Paul

On Wed, 11 Jun 2025 12:27:22 -0400, Nil wrote:

> I've got an X-face that I set up, like, 20 years ago, but almost nobody
> can see it.

It's a guitar!

<https://www.dairiki.org/xface/>

--
s|b

On Wed, 11 Jun 2025 12:35:15 -0500, sticks wrote:

> >> just search X-face.  It's the dumbest thing ever for usenet IMO.

> > What about Face header then?

> What about it?

If the X-Face header is the dumbest thing for Usenet, then what is the
Face header? (X-Face != Face)

--
s|b

On 6/11/2025 10:19 PM, Paul wrote:
> On Wed, 6/11/2025 5:02 PM, sticks wrote:
>> On 6/11/2025 2:32 PM, s|b wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Jun 2025 12:35:15 -0500, sticks wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> just search X-face.  It's the dumbest thing ever for usenet IMO.
>>>
>>>>> What about Face header then?
>>>
>>>> What about it?
>>>
>>> If the X-Face header is the dumbest thing for Usenet, then what is the
>>> Face header? (X-Face != Face)
>>
>> equally stupid.
>>
>
> To me, they seem to be the same outer dimension, except one is color.

---snip---

I just prefer text based discussion.  This stuff seems rather silly to me.


--
Darwinism Is Junk Science!!

Paul wrote:
> On Wed, 6/11/2025 1:35 PM, sticks wrote:
>> On 6/11/2025 8:30 AM, s|b wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 18:31:35 -0500, sticks wrote:
>>>
>>>> just search X-face.  It's the dumbest thing ever for usenet IMO.
>>>
>>> What about Face header then?
>>
>> What about it?
>
> What I got here, is one was color and one was B&W.
[..snip..]
> Things like this are so archaic at times, it's hard to find a photo app
> to load them. The color one in this case, looks like it might be
> more authentic if the colors are inverted. I just happened to pick lousy
> looking samples :-) This does not appear to be a topic crying for a fix,
> because the artwork "mostly sucks" :-)
>
> And Copilot was helpful, by pointing out "you could decode these yourself
> you know". I would pay $200 a month, to be encouraged in this way.
>
> Some day the AI is going to answer "but you're too dumb to figure this out".

If you're using "Copilot" for stuff like this, maybe the AI would be right. ^^

On Wed, 6/11/2025 5:02 PM, sticks wrote:
> On 6/11/2025 2:32 PM, s|b wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Jun 2025 12:35:15 -0500, sticks wrote:
>>
>>>>> just search X-face.  It's the dumbest thing ever for usenet IMO.
>>
>>>> What about Face header then?
>>  
>>> What about it?
>>
>> If the X-Face header is the dumbest thing for Usenet, then what is the
>> Face header? (X-Face != Face)
>
> equally stupid.
>

To me, they seem to be the same outer dimension, except one is color.

One is a compressed PNG. The other is an XBM B&W bitmap.

The color one makes more sense with regard to the technical issues,
but whether you need pictures of bananas all day long at the top of
your viewing window, I think that would get tiring after
about 30 seconds.

Maybe we could make a separate header line, with a more
compact compression method.

X-What-I-Look-Like: "My picture is a banana"

X-What-I-Look-Like: "Get a load of these two cucamelons"

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/uploads/monthly_2016_08/cucamelon.jpg.bd29037ab80427877f780288e7a122a3.jpg

The method requires no tools or add-ons. And the recognition
factor is higher.

And just as many people are likely to see those lines, as
see the Face and X-Face lines today.

   Paul

Paul wrote:
> On Wed, 6/11/2025 4:49 PM, Frank Miller wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>
>>> And Copilot was helpful, by pointing out "you could decode these yourself
>>> you know". I would pay $200 a month, to be encouraged in this way.
>>>
>>> Some day the AI is going to answer "but you're too dumb to figure this out".
>>
>> If you're using "Copilot" for stuff like this, maybe the AI would be right. ^^
>>
>
> Some of the CoPilot questions I ask, are asked to determine
> how the machine works.
>
> There is a strategy planner. And there are "Group of Experts" models.
[..snip..]

So just try to "determine" the bullshit AIs like "Copilot" spit out.
I prefer to research by myself and think by myself.

On 11 Jun 2025, "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote in
alt.comp.software.thunderbird:

> On Wed, 11 Jun 2025 12:27:22 -0400, Nil wrote:
>
>> I've got an X-face that I set up, like, 20 years ago, but almost
>> nobody can see it.
>
> It's a guitar!
>
><https://www.dairiki.org/xface/>

Oh, look! It's an eye!

I remember laboring over that thing, trying to make it legible. I think
I made a bass one, too. After all that work, it's here to stay!

On Wed, 11 Jun 2025 16:02:14 -0500, sticks wrote:

> > If the X-Face header is the dumbest thing for Usenet, then what is the
> > Face header? (X-Face != Face)

> equally stupid.

I'd say it's stupid-er. I remember a discussion from long time ago that
the Face header wasn't even a real header and that is was basically a
binary.

--
s|b