🚀 go-pugleaf

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>Steven J Vaughan-Nichols
><https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-has-over-6-of-the-desktop-market-yes-you-read-that-right-heres-how/>
>says:
>
>    According to the US Federal Government Website and App Analytics,
>    which I trust far more than I do StatCounter, 6% of its visitors
>    over the last month were using Linux operating systems.
>
>and
>
>    If you add in Android (16.2%) and Chromebooks (0.8%), you're
>    talking about 23% of visitors using Linux, which puts it above
>    MacOS (11.7%), Windows 10 (15.7%), and Windows 11 (15.3%), which
>    is downright impressive. Take that, Windows.
>
>They are nice enough to offer the raw data, so you can do your own
>analysis.
>
>By the way, for those who like to rely on dubious sources like
>StatCounter, even that agrees that Linux is more than 5% of the US
>market.
>
>What about internationally? Do you think that would be lower or
>higher?


I strongly suspect that Linux, worldwide, is much more widely used
than people realize.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 07:11:57 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

>
> By the way, for those who like to rely on dubious sources like
> StatCounter, even that agrees that Linux is more than 5% of the US
> market.
>

It would be more accurate to say that Ubuntu (and its deriv's)
has more than 5% of the US market.

Ubuntu, like Android, although based on Linux, does not represent
true Linux -- and this is far from being a moot point.

What is true Linux?

GNU/Linux represents a return to computing in its fundamantal
form.  GNU/Linux is not pointing and clicking within a do-it-all-for-you
desktop environment.  GNU/Linux is engaging with the actual machine
via programming/scripting/configuring.  GNU/Linux is about finding
and developing solutions to ones own problems.  GNU/Linux brings back
the idea of "personal" to personal computing.

Report back when 5% of users are actively doing this.


--
Hail Linux!  Hail FOSS!  Hail Stallman!

On 7/18/25 9:33 AM, Joel wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> Steven J Vaughan-Nichols
>> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-has-over-6-of-the-desktop-market-yes-you-read-that-right-heres-how/>
>> says:
>>
>>     According to the US Federal Government Website and App Analytics,
>>     which I trust far more than I do StatCounter, 6% of its visitors
>>     over the last month were using Linux operating systems.
>>
>> and
>>
>>     If you add in Android (16.2%) and Chromebooks (0.8%), you're
>>     talking about 23% of visitors using Linux, which puts it above
>>     MacOS (11.7%), Windows 10 (15.7%), and Windows 11 (15.3%), which
>>     is downright impressive. Take that, Windows.
>>
>> They are nice enough to offer the raw data, so you can do your own
>> analysis.
>>
>> By the way, for those who like to rely on dubious sources like
>> StatCounter, even that agrees that Linux is more than 5% of the US
>> market.
>>
>> What about internationally? Do you think that would be lower or
>> higher?
>
>
> I strongly suspect that Linux, worldwide, is much more widely used
> than people realize.
>
Reading posts on several newsgroups, there seems to be a huge group of people in Europe
and Australia. I get that from links they post that point to non US sites.  amazon.eu or
something like that, they aren't .com sites.

--
Linux Mint 22.1,  Thunderbird 128.12.0esr,  Mozilla Firefox 140.0.4
     Alan K.

On 18/07/2025 11:07, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 07:11:57 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>>
>> By the way, for those who like to rely on dubious sources like
>> StatCounter, even that agrees that Linux is more than 5% of the US
>> market.
>>
>
> It would be more accurate to say that Ubuntu (and its deriv's)
> has more than 5% of the US market.
>
> Ubuntu, like Android, although based on Linux, does not represent
> true Linux -- and this is far from being a moot point.
>
> What is true Linux?
>
> GNU/Linux represents a return to computing in its fundamantal
> form.  GNU/Linux is not pointing and clicking within a do-it-all-for-you
> desktop environment.  GNU/Linux is engaging with the actual machine
> via programming/scripting/configuring.  GNU/Linux is about finding
> and developing solutions to ones own problems.  GNU/Linux brings back
> the idea of "personal" to personal computing.
>
> Report back when 5% of users are actively doing this.
>
Your "true Linux" is not what the desktop market requires but you have
highlighted why Linux has failed to capture that market and *never will*.

The problem is the confusion caused by the vast number of competing
Linux desktops (essentially the many distributions each with a choice of
"desktop").

What the desktop market really wants is a single, widely adopted and
supported OS/GUI, as demonstrated by the success of Microsoft, Apple and
Google with their offerings.

On Jul 18, 2025 at 3:11:57 AM EDT, "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
wrote:

> Steven J Vaughan-Nichols
> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-has-over-6-of-the-desktop-market-yes-you-read-that-right-heres-how/>
> says:
>
>     According to the US Federal Government Website and App Analytics,
>     which I trust far more than I do StatCounter, 6% of its visitors
>     over the last month were using Linux operating systems.
>
> and
>
>     If you add in Android (16.2%) and Chromebooks (0.8%), you're
>     talking about 23% of visitors using Linux, which puts it above
>     MacOS (11.7%), Windows 10 (15.7%), and Windows 11 (15.3%), which
>     is downright impressive. Take that, Windows.

That is only 65.7%. So what are the other 34.3% using? Hmmm, what IS missing
from the above numbers?  Surprise! iPhones/iPads of course.  So we can add
that to MacOS and you get 46%. Take that, everyone.

Statcounter has that combined U.S. Mac/iOs figure at 42%.  Not so "dubious",
is it?  The combined Linux/Android/Chrome number is around 25%. Looks pretty
reasonable to me.

> They are nice enough to offer the raw data, so you can do your own
> analysis.
> By the way, for those who like to rely on dubious sources like
> StatCounter, even that agrees that Linux is more than 5% of the US
> market.

Which I told you weeks ago and you did not believe.  Since the numbers are so
close, why is Statcounter "dubious"?

> What about internationally? Do you think that would be lower or
> higher?

Actually it is a bit lower.  4.1% according to Statcounter.

Statcounter tracks "5 billion pageviews per month collected from across the
Statcounter network of more than 1.5 million websites".

The link above is based on "billions of visits to over 400 US executive branch
government domains. That's about 5,000 total websites". So 5000 websites
versus 1.5 million websites.  Which do you think is a more accurate picture?
 The larger sample or the smaller sample?

But again, since ALL the numbers are so close, why is Statcounter "dubious"?

I would say these government numbers prove that Statcounter is, in fact,
accurate.

On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 19:58:29 +0000, Tyrone wrote:

> That's about 5,000 total websites". So 5000 websites versus 1.5
> million websites. Which do you think is a more accurate picture? The
> larger sample or the smaller sample?

The one that is less biased, of course. The StatCounter sites seem to be
accounting for less and less web traffic, which is why many consider its
measurements to be less and less reliable.

On Jul 19, 2025, Tyrone wrote
(in article<keOdnU6S6PnKOeb1nZ2dnZfqnPoAAAAA@supernews.com>):

> On Jul 19, 2025 at 6:23:32 AM EDT,
> "Daniel70"<daniel47@eternal-september.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On 18/07/2025 5:11 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> > > Steven J Vaughan-Nichols
> > > <https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-has-over-6-of-the-desktop-market-yes-y
> > > ou-read-that-right-heres-how/>
> > > says:
> > >
> > > According to the US Federal Government Website and App Analytics,
> > > which I trust far more than I do StatCounter, 6% of its visitors
> > > over the last month were using Linux operating systems.
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > If you add in Android (16.2%) and Chromebooks (0.8%), you're
> > > talking about 23% of visitors using Linux, which puts it above
> > > MacOS (11.7%), Windows 10 (15.7%), and Windows 11 (15.3%), which
> > > is downright impressive. Take that, Windows.
> >
> > Seems to me, if you are going to add all the Variants of Linux together
> > to come up with your "about 23%' then you could add all your Windows
> > Variants (10 + 11 only) together as well .... which gives you 31% ....
> > so still more than the Linux Variants!!
>
> Obviously the writer at the link above is strongly biased to Linux. He even
> omitted iPhones and iPads from the numbers. Which when you combine that with
> Mac you get 46%.

A whole lot of Linux-pushers don’t like Windows but Really Hate Crapple.

I ignore them.

On Jul 18, 2025 at 7:22:43 PM EDT, "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 19:58:29 +0000, Tyrone wrote:
>
>> That's about 5,000 total websites". So 5000 websites versus 1.5
>> million websites. Which do you think is a more accurate picture? The
>> larger sample or the smaller sample?
>
> The one that is less biased, of course. The StatCounter sites seem to be
> accounting for less and less web traffic, which is why many consider its
> measurements to be less and less reliable.

"seem to be accounting for less and less web traffic"?  With 1.5 million
sites? And yet they closely match the government website numbers.

Speaking of bias, why is he combining Linux/Android/Chrome and NOT combining
Windows?  Why not combine Windows versions and get 31%?  Take that, Linux.

This link is loaded with bias.  He didn't even mention iPhones/iPads.  He did
everything possible to make Linux look good and everything else look bad.

I'll take Statcounter's 1.5 million global websites (and they don't combine
anything) over a couple thousand U.S. government websites and this heavily
biased link artificially bloating the Linux numbers.

On Jul 19, 2025 at 6:23:32 AM EDT, "Daniel70" <daniel47@eternal-september.org>
wrote:

> On 18/07/2025 5:11 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> Steven J Vaughan-Nichols
>> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-has-over-6-of-the-desktop-market-yes-you-read-that-right-heres-how/>
>> says:
>>
>>      According to the US Federal Government Website and App Analytics,
>>      which I trust far more than I do StatCounter, 6% of its visitors
>>      over the last month were using Linux operating systems.
>>
>> and
>>
>>      If you add in Android (16.2%) and Chromebooks (0.8%), you're
>>      talking about 23% of visitors using Linux, which puts it above
>>      MacOS (11.7%), Windows 10 (15.7%), and Windows 11 (15.3%), which
>>      is downright impressive. Take that, Windows.
>
> Seems to me, if you are going to add all the Variants of Linux together
> to come up with your "about 23%' then you could add all your Windows
> Variants (10 + 11 only) together as well .... which gives you 31% ....
> so still more than the Linux Variants!!

Obviously the writer at the link above is strongly biased to Linux.  He even
omitted iPhones and iPads from the numbers. Which when you combine that with
Mac you get 46%.

On 18/07/2025 5:11 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> Steven J Vaughan-Nichols
> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-has-over-6-of-the-desktop-market-yes-you-read-that-right-heres-how/>
> says:
>
>      According to the US Federal Government Website and App Analytics,
>      which I trust far more than I do StatCounter, 6% of its visitors
>      over the last month were using Linux operating systems.
>
> and
>
>      If you add in Android (16.2%) and Chromebooks (0.8%), you're
>      talking about 23% of visitors using Linux, which puts it above
>      MacOS (11.7%), Windows 10 (15.7%), and Windows 11 (15.3%), which
>      is downright impressive. Take that, Windows.

Seems to me, if you are going to add all the Variants of Linux together
to come up with your "about 23%' then you could add all your Windows
Variants (10 + 11 only) together as well .... which gives you 31% ....
so still more than the Linux Variants!!
--
Daniel70

On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 13:57:25 +0000, Tyrone wrote:

> On Jul 18, 2025 at 7:22:43 PM EDT, "Lawrence D'Oliveiro"
> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 19:58:29 +0000, Tyrone wrote:
>>
>>> That's about 5,000 total websites". So 5000 websites versus 1.5
>>> million websites. Which do you think is a more accurate picture? The
>>> larger sample or the smaller sample?
>>
>> The one that is less biased, of course. The StatCounter sites seem to
>> be accounting for less and less web traffic, which is why many consider
>> its measurements to be less and less reliable.
>
> "seem to be accounting for less and less web traffic"?  With 1.5 million
> sites?

That is just a tiny fraction of all the websites out there. And given they
and their users are largely self-selected, that is easily going to fall
prey to bias, leading to such things as over-representation of more
privileged groups (e.g. those who can afford Apple gear, the latest
Windows 11 machines) etc.

Whereas with Government sites, everybody needs to access Government
services at some point, no matter what walk of life they come from. That
is a factor that helps to offset bias.

> And yet they closely match the government website numbers.

Fine if you accept StatCounter where it agrees, and reject where it
disagrees. There is a name for that: “selection bias”.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 20:23:32 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:

> Seems to me, if you are going to add all the Variants of Linux together
> to come up with your "about 23%' then you could add all your Windows
> Variants (10 + 11 only) together as well .... which gives you 31% ....
> so still more than the Linux Variants!!

But not much more. If you put it that way, it makes even more stark the
fact that Windows has completely lost any dominance it may ever have had
in the computing landscape.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 12:33:10 -0400, WolfFan wrote:

> A whole lot of Linux-pushers don’t like Windows but Really Hate Crapple.
>
> I ignore them.

You use the term “Crapple”, yet you don’t hate the company, I suppose ...