🚀 go-pugleaf

"David Haas" <dhaas007@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.13b6fdaddeee992989815@news.mciworld.com...
> Does God reside in our universe?

Our universe resides in God.

In order to create a universe from
> scratch God would have had to have been outside of "our" universe.
Question
> is:  If God is eternal and had existed for eternity outside our universe
> why would he choose to create ANOTHER ONE and enter it.  You would think
> that having spent an eternity in the outside universe or where ever he
> existed he would want to stay there.  Can anybody explain this to me?
>

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou
hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

> Also,  If God did have the ability to create a complete universe with all
> its parts and stuff.  Why in the world would he care about us?  He has a
> 100 billion billion stars and planets to play with.  Why pick on one
planet
> with one egotistical life form.  You would think, given the odds, that
> there would be other life forms on other planets to worship him.
>
> But why would he need anybody to worship him.  After all, he is GOD. He
> should be above all that shouldn't he?  I'm confused.

Where do you get the idea that God needs worship? God has need of nothing.
True worship is not an action but a reaction to God revealing Himself.

>Does God reside in our universe?

A figment of human imagination cannot reside *anywhere*.

>In order to create a universe from
>scratch God would have had to have been outside of "our" universe. Question
>is:  If God is eternal and had existed for eternity outside our universe
>why would he choose to create ANOTHER ONE and enter it.  You would think
>that having spent an eternity in the outside universe or where ever he
>existed he would want to stay there.  Can anybody explain this to me?

There is nothing in the universe to suggest intelligent design.

>Also,  If God did have the ability to create a complete universe with all
>its parts and stuff.  Why in the world would he care about us?  He has a
>100 billion billion stars and planets to play with.  Why pick on one planet
>with one egotistical life form.  You would think, given the odds, that
>there would be other life forms on other planets to worship him.

It is these lifeforms who have come up with one hundred thousand ways
to explain how they got there, and all but one (science) are based on
half-truths, things they don't understand, and outright lies.

>But why would he need anybody to worship him.  After all, he is GOD. He
>should be above all that shouldn't he?  I'm confused.

If one god is real because one person says so, then surely they are
all real, right? Well, bad news for all of them, there is no god,
never was, never will be.

*Starts singing "Just us"*

David Haas wrote:
>
> Does God reside in our universe?

No, the universe resides in God.

 In order to create a universe from
> scratch God would have had to have been outside of "our" universe. Question
> is:  If God is eternal and had existed for eternity outside our universe
> why would he choose to create ANOTHER ONE and enter it.

Outside of God NOTHING exists or has ever existed, no universe, galaxy,
star, planet, sea, animal or man.

  You would think
> that having spent an eternity in the outside universe or where ever he
> existed he would want to stay there.  Can anybody explain this to me?
>
> Also,  If God did have the ability to create a complete universe with all
> its parts and stuff.  Why in the world would he care about us?  He has a
> 100 billion billion stars and planets to play with.  Why pick on one planet
> with one egotistical life form.

As far as we are able to tell, human beings are the only life form
conscious of the universe, and in that sense able to transcend it, like
God in that respect.

 You would think, given the odds, that
> there would be other life forms on other planets to worship him.

True, but what do WE know?

>
> But why would he need anybody to worship him.  After all, he is GOD. He
> should be above all that shouldn't he?  I'm confused.

God doesn't need anything outside Himself, but if His true character is
love as Christians believe, all creation is an outpouring of that love.
Thus we are the ones who need to worship Him in response to that love,
and not vise versa.  Otherwise we become loveless and insensitive
ingrates.
>
> D. Haas

Denny

"mighty1" <mighty1@grapevine.net> wrote:
> "David Haas" <dhaas007@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Does God reside in our universe?
> Our universe resides in God.

  So why can't we see It?

> > In order to create a universe from scratch God would
> > have had to have been outside of "our" universe.
> > Question is:  If God is eternal and had existed for
> > eternity outside our universe why would he choose to
> > create ANOTHER ONE and enter it.  You would think that
> > having spent an eternity in the outside universe or
> > where ever he existed he would want to stay there.  Can
> > anybody explain this to me?
> >
> 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and
> honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and
> for thy pleasure they are and were created.

  God created the universe to bring It pleasure? Does that
mean that It was unhappy before?

> > Also,  If God did have the ability to create a
> > complete universe with all its parts and stuff.  Why in
> > the world would he care about us?  He has a 100 billion
> > billion stars and planets to play with.  Why pick on one
> > planet with one egotistical life form.  You would
> > think, given the odds, that there would be other life
> > forms on other planets to worship him.
> >
> > But why would he need anybody to worship him.  After
> > all, he is GOD. He should be above all that shouldn't
> > he?  I'm confused.
> Where do you get the idea that God needs worship?

  From the entire Chrtistian community?

> God has need of nothing.

  Of course not, It doesn't exist.

> True worship is not an action but a reaction to God
> revealing Himself.

  How can one tell if the worship is true or not? What
should happen to those who weren't true worshipppers?

Morgan

aa# 1752


* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

> dgillesp <dgillesp@swva.net> wrote:
> David Haas wrote:
> >
> > Does God reside in our universe?
> No, the universe resides in God.

  So why can't we see him?

> >  In order to create a universe from scratch God would
> > have had to have been outside of "our" universe.
> > Question is:  If God is eternal and had existed for
> > eternity outside our universe why would he choose to
> > create ANOTHER ONE and enter it.
> Outside of God NOTHING exists or has ever existed, no
> universe, galaxy, star, planet, sea, animal or man.
> >   You would think that having spent an eternity in the
> > outside universe or where ever he existed he would want
> > to stay there.  Can anybody explain this to me?
> >
> > Also,  If God did have the ability to create a
> > complete universe with all its parts and stuff.  Why in
> > the world would he care about us?  He has a 100 billion
> > billion stars and planets to play with. Why pick on one
> > planet with one egotistical life form.
> As far as we are able to tell, human beings are the
> only life form conscious of the universe, and in that
> sense able to transcend it, like God in that respect.

  Still, *why* isn't there life on other planets?

> >  You would think, given the odds, that there would be
> > other life forms on other planets to worship him.
> True, but what do WE know?

  Theres plenty of space in...well, space. But why didn't
God fill it up with somebody to worship him?

> > But why would he need anybody to worship him.  After
> > all, he is GOD. He should be above all that shouldn't
> > he?  I'm confused.
> God doesn't need anything outside Himself, but if His
> true character is love as Christians believe, all
> creation is an outpouring of that love.

  What about all the bad things that he supposedly created?
They don't seem very love-filled.

> Thus we are the ones who need to worship Him in response
> to that love, and not vise versa.  Otherwise we become
> loveless and insensitive ingrates.

  The rest of your post seemed fairly civil, and from your
other posts in this forum I would conclude that you were an
intelligent human being. That being said, I'm amazed at the
arrogance in the previous paragraph; to say that just
because someone doesn't share your belief, he or she
is "loveless and insensitive" strikes me as extremely un-
intelligent.

Morgan

aa# 1752


* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

In article <394E04D5.CA69EF5@swva.net>, dgillesp@swva.net says...
>
>
> David Haas wrote:
> >
> > Does God reside in our universe?
>
> No, the universe resides in God.

The universe is a big place. How can something that created something that
big have it inside of it.  What evidence do you have to suggest that a
supernatural entity has swallowed an entire universe?  Your statement makes
no sense.

>  In order to create a universe from
> > scratch God would have had to have been outside of "our" universe. Question
> > is:  If God is eternal and had existed for eternity outside our universe
> > why would he choose to create ANOTHER ONE and enter it.
>
> Outside of God NOTHING exists or has ever existed, no universe, galaxy,
> star, planet, sea, animal or man.

But how can this be?  If nothing exists or has ever existed. Where does
that put God.  This means he is even more removed from anything even
remotely human.   If he was never part of another universe but just floated
around in no where land for eternity how in the world did he come out
acting like a primate?  How is it possible for this eternal non physical
thing to actually care about hairless apes?

>   You would think
> > that having spent an eternity in the outside universe or where ever he
> > existed he would want to stay there.  Can anybody explain this to me?
> >
> > Also,  If God did have the ability to create a complete universe with all
> > its parts and stuff.  Why in the world would he care about us?  He has a
> > 100 billion billion stars and planets to play with.  Why pick on one planet
> > with one egotistical life form.
>
> As far as we are able to tell, human beings are the only life form
> conscious of the universe, and in that sense able to transcend it, like
> God in that respect.

You mean to tell me that out of a 100 billion billion stars and planets
there is no intelligent life except humans?  For that matter who says
humans are intelligent?  I would like a second opinion.

Do you have any idea of what a billion is?  How about a million?  Are you
numerically challenged?


>
>  You would think, given the odds, that
> > there would be other life forms on other planets to worship him.
>
> True, but what do WE know?

We know a lot.  For example WE know life on earth is ALL based on DNA
chemistry.  WE know that all life requires an in put of energy.  WE know
that the self replicating nature of all species tends to increase numbers
beyond the environments ability to support it. We know that the chemistry
throughout the universe is similar if not the same as here.  There is a lot
of stuff WE are pretty sure of.  I might add WE know that humans have made
up a plethora of Gods to worship and present sacrifices to.

> >
> > But why would he need anybody to worship him.  After all, he is GOD. He
> > should be above all that shouldn't he?  I'm confused.
>
> God doesn't need anything outside Himself, but if His true character is
> love as Christians believe, all creation is an outpouring of that love.
> Thus we are the ones who need to worship Him in response to that love,
> and not vise versa.  Otherwise we become loveless and insensitive
> ingrates.

But why don't you love someone who needs and wants love.  You may actually
do some good for another human being.  If God doesn't need anything why do
you spend precious time loving something that is invisible and doesn't care
about human emotion.  Or does he?  He seems to be concerned about human
sex, and other behaviors that most humans don't support.  Things that most
laws say are illegal. Is this just a coincidence?  Maybe God exists in the
mind of man and that is why he has no substance.

 D. Haas

David Haas wrote:
>
> In article <394E04D5.CA69EF5@swva.net>, dgillesp@swva.net says...
> >
> >
> > David Haas wrote:
> > >
> > > Does God reside in our universe?
> >
> > No, the universe resides in God.
>
> The universe is a big place. How can something that created something that
> big have it inside of it.  What evidence do you have to suggest that a
> supernatural entity has swallowed an entire universe?  Your statement makes
> no sense.
>


Universe man, Universe man,
Bigger than the entire universe man

--They Might Be Giants

In article <394E69EF.1714C787@purdue.edu>, pgw@purdue.edu says...
> David Haas wrote:
> >
> > In article <394E04D5.CA69EF5@swva.net>, dgillesp@swva.net says...
> > >
> > >
> > > David Haas wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Does God reside in our universe?
> > >
> > > No, the universe resides in God.
> >
> > The universe is a big place. How can something that created something that
> > big have it inside of it.  What evidence do you have to suggest that a
> > supernatural entity has swallowed an entire universe?  Your statement makes
> > no sense.
> >
>
>
> Universe man, Universe man,
> Bigger than the entire universe man
>
>
Your imagination is bigger than the universe!

Unfortunately,  just because we can imagine something or wish it to be true
does not make it so.

On the other hand.  Living in your own imaginary universe might not be so
bad.  I have found that reality really sucks if you take any time to think
about it.  So I don't.  Your reality is so nice you can think about it.

D. Haas

Cynical Prophet wrote:
>
> > dgillesp <dgillesp@swva.net> wrote:
> > David Haas wrote:
> > >
> > > Does God reside in our universe?
> > No, the universe resides in God.
>
>   So why can't we see him?

Because He is too close for us to view, the very Ground of our being and
of all that is.  You can't see the ground immediately under your feet
because it's your support.  The poet wrote that God "...is nearer to us
than breathing and closer than hands and feet."
>
> > >  In order to create a universe from scratch God would
> > > have had to have been outside of "our" universe.
> > > Question is:  If God is eternal and had existed for
> > > eternity outside our universe why would he choose to
> > > create ANOTHER ONE and enter it.
> > Outside of God NOTHING exists or has ever existed, no
> > universe, galaxy, star, planet, sea, animal or man.
> > >   You would think that having spent an eternity in the
> > > outside universe or where ever he existed he would want
> > > to stay there.  Can anybody explain this to me?
> > >
> > > Also,  If God did have the ability to create a
> > > complete universe with all its parts and stuff.  Why in
> > > the world would he care about us?  He has a 100 billion
> > > billion stars and planets to play with. Why pick on one
> > > planet with one egotistical life form.
> > As far as we are able to tell, human beings are the
> > only life form conscious of the universe, and in that
> > sense able to transcend it, like God in that respect.
>
>   Still, *why* isn't there life on other planets?

There very well may be, but we have absolutely no proof that conscious
life exists elsewhere in the universe.
>
> > >  You would think, given the odds, that there would be
> > > other life forms on other planets to worship him.
> > True, but what do WE know?
>
>   Theres plenty of space in...well, space. But why didn't
> God fill it up with somebody to worship him?

Perhaps He intends for us to populate His universe.  He apparently is in
no hurry to accomplish His purposes, not very American at all.
Americans have no patience with patience, do we?
>
> > > But why would he need anybody to worship him.  After
> > > all, he is GOD. He should be above all that shouldn't
> > > he?  I'm confused.
> > God doesn't need anything outside Himself, but if His
> > true character is love as Christians believe, all
> > creation is an outpouring of that love.
>
>   What about all the bad things that he supposedly created?
> They don't seem very love-filled.

Christians believe it was God's purpose was to make human beings in His
own image as the crown and glory of creation, so we may accurately say,
"God made you and God made me."  But, for example, it does not
necessarily follow that "God made cancer."  His creation is one that has
possibilities for great evil, as well as for great good, to emerge
because "chance" and "freedom" are built into the nature of existence.
Evil is always something that was created good but has become twisted
and warped out of shape.  For example, growth is a good thing created by
God, and cancer is growth but it is growth that has gone wrong.
>
> > Thus we are the ones who need to worship Him in response
> > to that love, and not vise versa.  Otherwise we become
> > loveless and insensitive ingrates.
>
>   The rest of your post seemed fairly civil, and from your
> other posts in this forum I would conclude that you were an
> intelligent human being. That being said, I'm amazed at the
> arrogance in the previous paragraph; to say that just
> because someone doesn't share your belief, he or she
> is "loveless and insensitive" strikes me as extremely un-
> intelligent.

I have no doubt that some atheists are far more sensitive,
compassionate, and grateful human beings than are some Christians toward
their fellow human beings.  My point is that we become loveless and
insensitive ingrates ***toward God*** apart from a realtionship of love,
trust, and thankfulness (worship) to Him.  I also believe that atheists
would be surprised if they could trace the deep and hidden roots of
their sensitiivity, compassion, and gratitude to its true Source--to God
Who is Love itself.  As for those of us who may be narrow, spiteful,
prejudiced Christians--just imagine what we would be like without
God...and be grateful that we are no worse!!!

> Morgan
>
> aa# 1752
>
> * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Denny

"Cynical Prophet" <cynical_prophet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:06180e24.66da2ebd@usw-ex0110-076.remarq.com...
>sNip
> > God has need of nothing.
>
>   Of course not, It doesn't exist.

So, if it is as you say, that God doesn't exist, then there is no absolutely
NO reason under the sun why I shouldn't just go out and rape and rob and
kill anybody and everybody I damn well please then, right?

And if I do, and I get caught, what is the worse thing that can happen?
Go to prison?
-Been there, done that.- No big deal.
Get killed?
Since as you say, there is no God, then that just wouldn't matter either.
Cause then I'd just be dead and gone...
And if there is no God then I should have no fear of death or fear of any
kind of consequence for carrying out any of these kind of actions.
Cool.
If it is as you say, then let's do it.
Or give me a reason why not.

"mighty1" <mighty1@grapevine.net> wrote:
>
>"Cynical Prophet" <cynical_prophet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:06180e24.66da2ebd@usw-ex0110-076.remarq.com...
>>sNip
>> > God has need of nothing.
>>
>>   Of course not, It doesn't exist.
>
>So, if it is as you say, that God doesn't exist, then there is
no absolutely
>NO reason under the sun why I shouldn't just go out and rape
and rob and
>kill anybody and everybody I damn well please then, right?

And if your God does exist, you CAN go out and rape and murder--
as long as your victims are evil sinning unbelievers!  Given the
standards of your Bible, you'd probably get a special place in
Heaven!

>
>And if I do, and I get caught, what is the worse thing that can
happen?
>Go to prison?
>-Been there, done that.- No big deal.
>Get killed?
>Since as you say, there is no God, then that just wouldn't
matter either.
>Cause then I'd just be dead and gone...
>And if there is no God then I should have no fear of death or
fear of any
>kind of consequence for carrying out any of these kind of
actions.
>Cool.
>If it is as you say, then let's do it.
>Or give me a reason why not.
>

So the only thing that keeps you from acting out your monstrous
thoughts is the fear that you'll burn?  You know, psychologists
rate those "morals" pretty low.  And do you really feel that
innocent children should be tortured forever and ever for not
belonging to the same cult as you?

Oh yes, it's just so obvious what sort of excellent morals
follow from a belief in God.

Kyle Graba

Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com

"Kyle Graba" <kmgrabaNOkmSPAM@mail.uccs.edu.invalid> wrote in message
news:101470c5.ade99da1@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com...
> "mighty1" <mighty1@grapevine.net> wrote:
> >
> >"Cynical Prophet" <cynical_prophet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:06180e24.66da2ebd@usw-ex0110-076.remarq.com...
> >>sNip
> >> > God has need of nothing.
> >>
> >>   Of course not, It doesn't exist.
> >
> >So, if it is as you say, that God doesn't exist, then there is
> no absolutely
> >NO reason under the sun why I shouldn't just go out and rape
> and rob and
> >kill anybody and everybody I damn well please then, right?
>
> And if your God does exist, you CAN go out and rape and murder--
> as long as your victims are evil sinning unbelievers!

No I can't.
Because God is a God of consequence, He DOES repay.
Ever hear the saying, "what comes around goes around?"

> Given the
> standards of your Bible, you'd probably get a special place in
> Heaven!
>

What does "my" bible have to do with anything?
And why do you capitalize the word?
The bible is not God.

And if you were to be introduced to just what and who
God really is, then you would also know heaven is not a place
but a state of being.

> >
> >And if I do, and I get caught, what is the worse thing that can
> happen?
> >Go to prison?
> >-Been there, done that.- No big deal.
> >Get killed?
> >Since as you say, there is no God, then that just wouldn't
> matter either.
> >Cause then I'd just be dead and gone...
> >And if there is no God then I should have no fear of death or
> fear of any
> >kind of consequence for carrying out any of these kind of
> actions.
> >Cool.
> >If it is as you say, then let's do it.
> >Or give me a reason why not.
> >
>
> So the only thing that keeps you from acting out your monstrous
> thoughts is the fear that you'll burn?

The fire that burns is God.
God is an all consuming fire.
I fear God but not the fire of God
for I have already passed through the fire.

 You know, psychologists
> rate those "morals" pretty low.

And just where do men get their "morals?"
From their conscience?
Do you not realize that the voice of your
conscience is in reality the Voice of God?

And do you really feel that
> innocent children should be tortured forever and ever for not
> belonging to the same cult as you?
>
I belong to no "cult" nor do I follow any man made religions.
God is my Father, Creator and Teacher.
I have no need for anyone or anything else.

And the idea or concept of anyone,
children or otherwise being tortured forever
and ever is a false teaching of religion.



> Oh yes, it's just so obvious what sort of excellent morals
> follow from a belief in God.
>
> Kyle Graba
>
> Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
> Up to 100 minutes free!
> http://www.keen.com
>

You know? That's funny that christians throw out all these 'carefully
picked' quotes from the bible.  I remember reading something in the bible
about how to deal with a child that is defiant.  If the child will not
listen to you or come to you when you call him, he is to be stoned to death.
If the bible is to be taken seriously it seems to me we better go start
digging up stones to deal with our children.

Take your quotes and stuff them up your nose.

8=)

"mighty1" <mighty1@grapevine.net> wrote in message
news:s%c35.1892$j06.10215@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>
> "David Haas" <dhaas007@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.13b6fdaddeee992989815@news.mciworld.com...
> > Does God reside in our universe?
>
> Our universe resides in God.
>
> In order to create a universe from
> > scratch God would have had to have been outside of "our" universe.
> Question
> > is:  If God is eternal and had existed for eternity outside our universe
> > why would he choose to create ANOTHER ONE and enter it.  You would think
> > that having spent an eternity in the outside universe or where ever he
> > existed he would want to stay there.  Can anybody explain this to me?
> >
>
> 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for
thou
> hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
>
> > Also,  If God did have the ability to create a complete universe with
all
> > its parts and stuff.  Why in the world would he care about us?  He has a
> > 100 billion billion stars and planets to play with.  Why pick on one
> planet
> > with one egotistical life form.  You would think, given the odds, that
> > there would be other life forms on other planets to worship him.
> >
> > But why would he need anybody to worship him.  After all, he is GOD. He
> > should be above all that shouldn't he?  I'm confused.
>
> Where do you get the idea that God needs worship? God has need of nothing.
> True worship is not an action but a reaction to God revealing Himself.
>
>
>

"David Haas" <dhaas007@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.13b6fdaddeee992989815@news.mciworld.com...
> Does God reside in our universe?  In order to create a universe from
> scratch God would have had to have been outside of "our" universe.
Question
> is:  If God is eternal and had existed for eternity outside our universe
> why would he choose to create ANOTHER ONE and enter it.  You would think
> that having spent an eternity in the outside universe or where ever he
> existed he would want to stay there.  Can anybody explain this to me?

If God were able to create our universe from another or even switch
universes the universes would be the same universe: the boundaries of our
universe are the boundaries of causality, creating one universe from another
has no effective meaning.  Even God creating our universe from some eternal
non-universe is meaningless: to do that God would have to exist "before"
time, which is nonsense.  Either way it's not logically possible for God to
have created the universe.

>
> Also,  If God did have the ability to create a complete universe with all
> its parts and stuff.  Why in the world would he care about us?  He has a
> 100 billion billion stars and planets to play with.  Why pick on one
planet
> with one egotistical life form.  You would think, given the odds, that
> there would be other life forms on other planets to worship him.

He's "God"; he has the capacity to care about everything, but obviously
shouldn't need to be worshiped.  A better question is why God doesn't seem
to care about us, seeing as he has the capacity to make life immaculately
blissful.

>
> But why would he need anybody to worship him.  After all, he is GOD. He
> should be above all that shouldn't he?  I'm confused.
>
>
> D. Haas

David Haas wrote:
>
> Does God reside in our universe?  In order to create a universe from
> scratch God would have had to have been outside of "our" universe. Question
> is:  If God is eternal and had existed for eternity outside our universe
> why would he choose to create ANOTHER ONE and enter it.  You would think
> that having spent an eternity in the outside universe or where ever he
> existed he would want to stay there.  Can anybody explain this to me?
>
> Also,  If God did have the ability to create a complete universe with all
> its parts and stuff.  Why in the world would he care about us?  He has a
> 100 billion billion stars and planets to play with.  Why pick on one planet
> with one egotistical life form.  You would think, given the odds, that
> there would be other life forms on other planets to worship him.
>
> But why would he need anybody to worship him.  After all, he is GOD. He
> should be above all that shouldn't he?  I'm confused.
>
> D. Haas

Maybe He was bored, and wanted someone to talk to. Has anyone ever
considered the concept of talking to God as if He was just another Joe?
Nah, it couldn't be that easy, could it?