🚀 go-pugleaf

On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 8:12:42 PM UTC, Cujo DeSockpuppet wrote:
> NancyGene <nancygene...@gmail.com> wrote in 
> news:d783d4a0-4547-480a...@googlegroups.com:
> > On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 1:49:23 AM UTC, george...@yahoo.ca wrote: 
> >> On 2022-06-14 3:06 p.m., NancyGene wrote: 
> >> > We saw that George Sulzbach decided to continue to protest that 
> >> > Hornblo 
> > wer is based on Admiral Nelson. We maintain that Hornblower is not 
> > fully based on Nelson (and was probably styled after many people, 
> > including Forester himself) 
> >> Fair enough; but no one said Hornblower was entirely or fully based 
> >> on Nelson; Zod said only "based," while Will specifically said "based 
> >> partially" more than once. 
> > 
> > You are splitting hairs, George Dance. What started the discussion on 
> > Nelson/Hornblower was George Sulzbach stating: On Thursday, June 9, 
> > 2022 at 6:35:13 PM UTC-4, rocky...@gmail.com wrote: "You might know 
> > him better in the Horatio Hornblower character based on him..." 
> > 
> > Not "partially based" or inspired, but "based." We objected to that, 
> > as did Michael. Will and George Sulzbach offered to provide "many" 
> > similarities between the two men, but didn't provide any, other than 
> > both being seasick. Many people get seasick.
> Trolls of the Dreckweasel are partially based on Benders having the poor 
> schmuck wearing a mask, clown shoes and a filthy shirt while slurring 
> drunkenly through a performance where he can't remember the words. 
> 
> See what I did there? 
Admirable.
> 
> A kooky argument can be made with just as much evidence as was presented 
> already that hornblower was based upon other figures in history like 
> Bozo the Clown. Well, maybe not him since Bozo came afterwards...
We favor the theory that Hornblower was based directly on Captain Hook.  Many "similarities."


> >> > and provided pages from C. S. Forester's own book, which explained 
> >> > how 
> > he formed the character. 
> >> The only page I saw you cite and quote from on that other thread was 
> >> this one: 
> >> 
> >> <quote> 
> >> > If George Dance is going to do research, he should go to primary 
> >> sources. Who is more primary than C. S. Forester for the name of his 
> >> character and the influences? From "The Hornblower Companion" – C 
> > . S. 
> >> Forester (1964) p. 90: 
> >> > 
> >> > “One final point, before the Margaret Johnson sighted the Bisho 
> > p 
> >> Light and we entered the English Channel. This odd character had to 
> >> have 
> > 
> >> a name – so far he had been merely ‘he’ in my dis 
> > cussions with myself. 
> >> He had to have a name which the readers would remember easily, which 
> >> would stand out on the page, and which would not be confused with any 
> >> other name. […] It would be desirable, but not entirely necessary 
> > for 
> >> ‘him’ to have a slightly grotesque name – somethi 
> > ng more for his absurd 
> >> self-consciousness to be disturbed about. The consideration of least
> >> weight – the merest milligram – was that ‘heâ 
> > �™ was a slightly grotesque
> >> character, too. ‘Horatio’ came first to mind, and oddly e 
> > nough not 
> >> because of Nelson but because of Hamlet; but it met an essential 
> >> requirement because it was a name with contemporary associations. 
> >> Nelson 
> > 
> >> was by no means the only Horatio in late Georgian times. Then, from 
> >> Horatio, it seemed a natural and easy step to Hornblower. At one 
> >> moment 
> > 
> >> he was ‘he’; at the next, ‘Horatio’; and 
> > yet a moment later he was 
> >> ‘Captain Horatio Hornblower of His Britannic Majesty’s Na 
> > vy,’ and the 
> >> last awkward corner was turned and the novel practically ready to be 
> >> written, and there was England fully in sight on the port bow.” 
> > 
> >> > ---------- 
> >> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/YWobkiCphYM?hl= 
> >> e 
> > n 
> >> 
> >> As I said in that other thread, I think you've misread that 
> >> paragraph; Forester is clearly saying 
> >> is that his character was not *named after" Nelson. 
> > 
> > In previous pages in the book, Forester explained how he formed the 
> > life, history, style, characteristics and foibles of Horatio 
> > Hornblower. The protagonist just lacked a name, which was explained 
> > on p.90 of "The Hornblower Companion." (quoted above) 
> > 
> > We think that C. S. Forester was too good of a writer and novelist to 
> > base his character on so obvious a military hero as Horatio Nelson. 
> > According to subsequent pages in "The Hornblower Companion," Forester 
> > first came up with plots that involved Naval campaigns and then tried 
> > to find ways to insert his hero into those, according to the timeline 
> > he had set up. Forester not only read about the campaigns but 
> > actually visited the locations.
> There you go with citing evidence. It was never about that.

No, evidence tends to be swept under the shed, to be replaced by "obscure" quotes from Wikipedia or wastrel teachers who prey upon gullible students.

> >> 
> >> Once again, no one has argued that Horatio Hornblower was named after 
> >> Horatio Nelson. You've successfully refuted a strawman. 
> 
> > We did not say that, but some of the comments that it was "obvious" 
> > that Hornblower was based on Nelson imply that the name is the key. 
> > That is not so.
> If you're expecting an honest discussion, I'd say you have a better 
> chance of Bruddah Dabey's ashes reconstituting themselves from the side 
> of a mountain. You might as well expect Dreckster to grow a spine.

It is indeed hard to force these people into a legitimate debate.  They keep going backwards to "facts" that have been disproven or just dismiss what Pendragon and we write.  The "many similarities" between Hornblower and Nelson never seem to be stated.