🚀 go-pugleaf

Grady Ward (grady@netcom.com) wrote:
: A nasty surprise on my credit card bill from BofA VISA:

: a monthly charge from my ISP on an account that was *closed*.

: According to the bank since the ISP is a "merchant" all
: charges they send to the bank will be *honored* by the bank,
: UNLESS I dispute them after the fact.

: EVEN IF THE ACCOUNT HAS BEEN CLOSED

: You don't even need to have your *own* merchant status,
: just work for a small business that does, one month
: submit a bunch of false subscription charges and
: drain the bank account the moment the credit for the
: charges come in. Then go on a long vacation.

Even better... sign up for the checks-by-phone program... and deposit them
in an account... no merchant status to worry about and it screws over the
people you steal the money from more...   See ALT.BUSINESS for WHY
the FTC shouldn't regulate checks-by-phone....

The door to fraud was opened by the banks honoring checks without a signature!
--
-------------------------------------
Glen L. Roberts, Editor, Full Disclosure
Host Full Disclosure Live (WWCR 5,065 khz - Sundays 7pm central)
email postal address to fd@wwa.com for catalog on privacy & surveillance.
Does 10555-1-708-356-9646 give you an "ANI" readback? With name?
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Grady Ward (grady@netcom.com) wrote:
: A nasty surprise on my credit card bill from BofA VISA:

: a monthly charge from my ISP on an account that was *closed*.

: According to the bank since the ISP is a "merchant" all
: charges they send to the bank will be *honored* by the bank,
: UNLESS I dispute them after the fact.

: EVEN IF THE ACCOUNT HAS BEEN CLOSED

I think a distinction needs to be drawn between closing an account and
reporting the card lost.  Last year, I really lost a B of A visa card.
They sent me one with a new number in a week.  Netcom started informing
me that they were having trouble with the old card and would start
billing me manually unless I gave them a new cc number.

I have proposed that an easy and cheap way of ending Netcom's charging
you is just report your existing card "lost" and getting a free
replacement from the cc company.  And don't give Netcom the new number.
I believe that charges made by Netcom or any merchants cannot be placed
on a card reported as "stolen"  There's NO WAY the cc issuer would do
this.

OTOH, an account you "close" might be able to accept charges.  The cc
company might use the fact you made a charge on a "closed" account as a
justification for sticking you with another annual fee.

Steve Work (slwork@netcom.com) wrote:
: Grady Ward (grady@netcom.com) wrote:
: : A nasty surprise on my credit card bill from BofA VISA:

: : a monthly charge from my ISP on an account that was *closed*.

: : According to the bank since the ISP is a "merchant" all
: : charges they send to the bank will be *honored* by the bank,
: : UNLESS I dispute them after the fact.

: : EVEN IF THE ACCOUNT HAS BEEN CLOSED

: I think a distinction needs to be drawn between closing an account and
: reporting the card lost.  Last year, I really lost a B of A visa card.
: They sent me one with a new number in a week.  Netcom started informing
: me that they were having trouble with the old card and would start
: billing me manually unless I gave them a new cc number.

: I have proposed that an easy and cheap way of ending Netcom's charging
: you is just report your existing card "lost" and getting a free
: replacement from the cc company.  And don't give Netcom the new number.
: I believe that charges made by Netcom or any merchants cannot be placed
: on a card reported as "stolen"  There's NO WAY the cc issuer would do
: this.

: OTOH, an account you "close" might be able to accept charges.  The cc
: company might use the fact you made a charge on a "closed" account as a
: justification for sticking you with another annual fee.

Of course, you could claim that your not liable for any charges made on
a "closed account," since you no long agree to pay for any "new" charges,
especially, if they don't have your signature with them... and you have
a record of denying any further authorization to "netcom" (or whoever)
to make further charges.
--
-------------------------------------
Glen L. Roberts, Editor, Full Disclosure
Host Full Disclosure Live (WWCR 5,065 khz - Sundays 7pm central)
email postal address to fd@wwa.com for catalog on privacy & surveillance.
Does 10555-1-708-356-9646 give you an "ANI" readback? With name?
<a href="http://ripco.com:8080/~glr/glr.html"> </a>

On 19 Mar 1995 19:58:15 GMT, fd@wwa.com said...
>
>Grady Ward (grady@netcom.com) wrote:
>: A nasty surprise on my credit card bill from BofA VISA:
>
>: a monthly charge from my ISP on an account that was *closed*.
>
>: According to the bank since the ISP is a "merchant" all
>: charges they send to the bank will be *honored* by the bank,
>: UNLESS I dispute them after the fact.
>
>: EVEN IF THE ACCOUNT HAS BEEN CLOSED
>
>: You don't even need to have your *own* merchant status,
>: just work for a small business that does, one month
>: submit a bunch of false subscription charges and
>: drain the bank account the moment the credit for the
>: charges come in. Then go on a long vacation.
>
>Even better... sign up for the checks-by-phone program... and deposit
them
>in an account... no merchant status to worry about and it screws over the
>people you steal the money from more...   See ALT.BUSINESS for WHY
>the FTC shouldn't regulate checks-by-phone....
>
>The door to fraud was opened by the banks honoring checks without a
signature!

>--
>-------------------------------------
>Glen L. Roberts, Editor, Full Disclosure

(gratuitous self-promotional sig deleted)

As a banker that deals with check fraud on a daily basis, I must throw in
my two cents on these statements...

Unfortunately, the volume of checks processed daily in the US banking
system has made it impossible to verify the signature on each and every
check presented for payment.  This has been the case since the
introduction of the MICR processing standards in the 1960's.  (Those weird
little numbers at the bottom of your checks.)  The great consumer demand
for rapid availibility of funds has mandated expeditious payment of checks,
and this creates a world of opportunity for the enlightened con-artist who
knows how the system operates.

I am currently working on a case where an individual was able to have
bogus checks printed in his name by one of these check by phone outfits.
I won't go into the details, as I am not sure this is the proper forum for that
discussion.  However, to blame the banking sysytem on allowing check
fraud to explode like it has is like saying that guns kill people by
themselves.

Brad Hildebrand

no sig, I'm trying to cut down...